new to kitesurfing have boxer 12m can anyone tell me about switchblade
all i hear is about crossbow how good they are also with the amount of depower is it possible to have 16m to cover most wind any feedback welcome Im 85kg

you will get about the same light wind performance as your 12m with a widespan 12m.

If you want to increase your wind range and have heaps of depower, then add the SS octane and F-one impact to your list of kites to try out.

all widespan kites have their advantages but have a long way to go in bar user friendlyness, The SS turbo diesel bar maybe the furtherest along this path.

Going to a 16m may not be the simple solution you are thinking of.

Best winds
Tony L

Dont look for a one kite solution especially if that means going for a big kite. In The cossbow as with all kites types the 16m is a different beast from the 12m. You always sacrifice heaps of perfomance in big kites.

If I only had the money to buy one crossbow, I would get a 12m (I am 85kg and live in Perth) OR I would get some top 2nd hand 05 kites (Rhino 05's, last years Cabrinha's or Slingy's) and get 2 or 3 kites for the same money.

My 2 cents..........good luck

I agree with Tony,
Having a large kite as your only one can slow your learning curve and generally leave you dissapointed. The large Flat kites are slowish turner too. You would need to consider where you live and the type of wind you will be going out in as well.
Beware of buying your kite just on all of the Bow hype. Flat kites are good but not the death of c kites. Look at the features of both flat and c kites and see whats best for you.

Jason

Originally posted by hunts

new to kitesurfing have boxer 12m can anyone tell me about switchblade
all i hear is about crossbow how good they are also with the amount of depower is it possible to have 16m to cover most wind any feedback welcome Im 85kg

Avoid advice from people who do not sell the brand of kite you are looking for.
I have tried the 12M and 9M Switchblade, and I like them even more than the Crossbows.
They turn as fast, relaunch even easier, jump just as well with practice, and have a bit better bottom end.
Widespan kites definately have a bigger windrange than C shaped kites, and they have a much larger power sweetspot as well as the ability to absorb gusts like no other kite I have ever tried and deadman safety built in as well.
I would recommend a 12M switchblade for you, it will work well between 12/13 knots and 24/25 knots.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack
www.kitepower.com.au

Or you could avoid advice from people who pimp the brand you are after.
Not knocking SLE kites at all, if we didnt believe in them we wouldnt be stocking the GK or the Turbo Diesel would we?
I too have tried the 9 and 12m Swithcblade and yes they are better than the Crossbow.
So what you are doing Steve is agreeing with myself and Wal????
" Dont look for a one kite solution especially if that means going for a big kite. In The cossbow as with all kites types the 16m is a different beast from the 12m. You always sacrifice heaps of perfomance in big kites."

Shouldnt we ask Hunts where he lives first? Perth and Darwin have vastly different wind conditions.

Jason
www.briskites.com.au/

Just a question from a casual bystander & buyer of kites from Kitepower Geelong previously.

Is it just me - or does every thread that involves a posting from Steve from Kitepower end in acrimony?

Steve - you are not doing yourself any favours with your attitude mate. Suggest you should ease up on the angry pills.

Ooch, I just bit my tongue.

Hey, it's OK i can still type.

Hunts, where are you? Or are you a figament of someones imagination?

i've been kiting 3 months and the new switchblade has been a huge turning point. got rid of my CO2 and wouldnt ride anything but the new bow kites...switchblade has great control, easy depower and easy to relaunch...you control it , it doesnt control you.

I stand by what I said, there is no anger there, you are reading things into my reply.
It is highly unlikely Jason or Tony could have tried a large STD or GK Sonic, they just are not on the market here yet, not even demos, or am I mistaken?
And besides the 16M Switchblade is nothing like the Sonic 11M I have or the 12M STD.
The 16M Switchblade is a great kite, it turns faster than any 16M C shaped kite I have tried, and has much better top end than any 16M C shaped kite too, as well as having a bit more bottom end too.

However I still recommended a 12M Switchblade as a single kite choice based on his posted weight. If he plans to keep the 12M C shaped kite he has then I would recommend a 16M Switchblade if he is trying to get out in lighter winds.

I think it is a fair statement to point out that neither Tony nor Jason sell Cabrinha, and will quite naturally try to steer people away from this market leading brand.
And it is equally fair for me to attempt to steer them back, OK?

Wind is wind, if the person asking wants to know about a certain size of kite, then it is reasonable to answer in general terms, like his question was.

I think the anger might be coming from elsewhere.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kitepower Australia

It is highly unlikely Jason or Tony could have tried a large STD or GK Sonic, they just are not on the market here yet, not even demos, or am I mistaken?
[purple]No I havent tried the large Sonic or Turbo Diesel, but I have tried the large Switchblade

has much better top end than any 16M C shaped kite too. Isn't that the idea of a flat kite after all????????,

as well as having a bit more bottom end too.[ But not much

I think it is a fair statement to point out that neither Tony nor Jason sell Cabrinha Read this as, not jumping on the bandwagon. I could have just as easily bought a pile of Cabrhina kites like some other shops but chose to stick with the brands we trust
and will quite naturally try to steer people away from this market leading brand. And I guess Best were a market leading brand last year were they?? Isn't it really whatever is your most profitable brand for the week

---

No anger this end just telling it how it is.

If I were you I would not consider a bow kite , especially if your learning.Theirs no doubt they jump very well, and are execellent in gusty conditions, and are more forgiving than a c kite.
But they do not launch out of the water very well especially if the leading edge is facing the wind direction, I have seen alot of people swim in when this happened, they invert if you push the bar out and a big gust hits you , and they do not self launch no where near as well a c kite.

Also while jumping if you dont hold the bar in you will fall out of the sky, and if you want to progress and start doing unhooked riding forget about it.

But they do have their place and I personnally think when these problems are sorted out I will certainly consider one.

Just on the topic of kitepower, and our good friend s----e, have not yet really met a kiter thats speaks highly of him.
Have heard he is extremely arrogant,
Has an ego the size of the titanic.
And is extremely moody and angry.

So I ask myself , If alot of people say that about you s----e why are you so nice on seabreeze and especially when it has to do with
crossbows or switchblades????

OK, now this is entertainment.

I have tried a 16m & 12m crossbow and an 11m GK Sonic and a Takoon nova 12m.

It seems as if the market hype is carefully worded but these kites still have issues and compromises.

If you want quicker steering then you get more bar pressure.
the 16m crossbow doesn't seem much better if at all then other 16ms
but can depower in gusts.

My local shop up here told me they ccould only get a cabrinha for me if they first ordered 20 kites and waited 2 mths for delivery. If they did that then they would have to push every body to that brand in order to get a return on the outlay. They said they would rather give a wider choice.

I am waiting for someone to solve the bar pressure problem, but sticking a piece of bunge chord on seems very agricultural.

Freed

quote:

---

Originally posted by BrisKites

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kitepower Australia

It is highly unlikely Jason or Tony could have tried a large STD or GK Sonic, they just are not on the market here yet, not even demos, or am I mistaken?
[purple]No I havent tried the large Sonic or Turbo Diesel, but I have tried the large Switchblade

has much better top end than any 16M C shaped kite too. Isn't that the idea of a flat kite after all????????,

as well as having a bit more bottom end too.[ But not much

I think it is a fair statement to point out that neither Tony nor Jason sell Cabrinha Read this as, not jumping on the bandwagon. I could have just as easily bought a pile of Cabrhina kites like some other shops but chose to stick with the brands we trust
and will quite naturally try to steer people away from this market leading brand. And I guess Best were a market leading brand last year were they?? Isn't it really whatever is your most profitable brand for the week

---

No anger this end just telling it how it is.

---

If you are not angry why use red?
You could not have bought a bunch of Cabrinha kites like we did, dealerships do not come easy Jason.
You chose to stick to the brands that you can get, tell it how it is.

Best is a brand, if you think they are a market leader great. We went with Best to crack the fixed prices of kites here in Oz, it worked. We were never happy with some parts of their range, that and some other business practices of theirs lead us to walk away from them.
The margins in Best kites I am fairly certain would be the lowest in the industry for retailers.

Mt experience is that the 16M Switchblade and Crossbow have much better bottom ends than any C shaped 16M kite, as well as the legendary top end.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack

quote:

---

Originally posted by bigairman

If I were you I would not consider a bow kite , especially if your learning.Theirs no doubt they jump very well, and are execellent in gusty conditions, and are more forgiving than a c kite.
But they do not launch out of the water very well especially if the leading edge is facing the wind direction, I have seen alot of people swim in when this happened, they invert if you push the bar out and a big gust hits you , and they do not self launch no where near as well a c kite.

Also while jumping if you dont hold the bar in you will fall out of the sky, and if you want to progress and start doing unhooked riding forget about it.

But they do have their place and I personnally think when these problems are sorted out I will certainly consider one.

---

G'day Bigairman
It is total nonsense to say that Bows cannot be ridden unhooked. I see people doing it everyday, I have done it myself, we teach people on them unhooked (until they are ready to hook in).

So is saying that they are not good for begginers, we are teaching on them this year and they are so much better to teach on and later for begginers to go and progress on, it is like chalk and cheese.
There are some positions that these kites can be more challenging to relaunch from, just like C kites. I watched a guy on a 5th equipped leading brand self rescue last night, could not get the kite to relaunch, he was experienced.
We also had a person self rescue on a bow, but they were inexperienced with bow kites and could have relaunched from the position the kite was in.
I have never seen a Cabrinha invert in flight, I have seen another brand we sell, but I beleive it was not pumped hard enough.
I saw that C shaped kite inverting last night too! ( which can be prevented )

We use both types of kites everyday, Bows do not make C's obsolete, but they are a great kite and will quickly take a large part of the market because they are so user friendly and have a unique and very effective safety built in.

Begginers learn easier and faster because they don't feel so scared of the kite - because they know they can switch the power off by pushing the bar out or letting go of the bar.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack

I have been busting big un-hooked moves on my Crossbow,It is very comforting to Know that if you bail out half way your not going to get punishid as much as on a C kite.Also if you drop the kite who cares they just jump back out of the water.Same story and beter with the Switchblade Just not as much hang time.

Wish I had my bows when I was learning

Bigairman=Hotairman

G day steve , hope for your sake they do take a large share of the market as you have put alot of faith in them just like the hellfish.

Good points there for learning about the bows never realy thought of that, though they do have their problems and once sorted out they will certainly take a large share of the market.

As for the bows inverting they do seen it happen plenty of times, and when they come down with the leading edge facing the wind you have not got a hope in hell of getting it back up.And the self launching does not appeal to me at all on the bows, c kites do it much easier.

C kites will always have their place as will bow kites depending on what you want to do and how you ride will determine what kite you buy.Greater choice in kites can only be better for everyone.

Bigairman , have to agree with you about relanching Bow when down on leading edge facing wind. Have now seen this 6 or 7 times. What is the method of relaunching from this position. Definitely think the Bow has its place but don't want to swim in every time with the kite when it goes down this way.( and thats what Ive seen done each time I witnessed kites down - leading edge facing wind )
regards
pops

Saw a bow yesterday invert when a big gust hit it , it went hurling towards the water, sat down on the water with its leading edge facing the wind.

The kiter tried everything he could to get it up and could not, mind you he is very experienced has been kiting for several years, was not a happy man after a half an hour swim in.I think having a bow for the gusty winter months would be an advantage and be much safer but as for summer no need I think my C kites will do just fine.

Hopefully the second generation will be much better and they will fix all the problems with them , I think thats what alot of kiters are waiting for.

This thing about not relaunching when nose is into wind.

Is that Leading edge down as in the position you place kite on ground to stop it blowing away?

I have been trialing both the Std bar and a pulley type bar on my Demo Nova 12, usually in gusty inland conditions( testing worse case scenes). and usually by myself. therefore the prefered method of launching is in the water and placing the kite LE down and into wind, on the water, then letting it float out till lines tension.

a pull on one back line results in launching 100% of the time and most always quicker than a 5th line C kite.

There is a slight difference in the bars for this, the std bar is a bit better.

Has anyone tried a non pulley type bar on their crossbow?

best winds
Tony L

quote:

---

Originally posted by bigairman

G day steve , hope for your sake they do take a large share of the market as you have put alot of faith in them just like the hellfish.

Good points there for learning about the bows never realy thought of that, though they do have their problems and once sorted out they will certainly take a large share of the market.

As for the bows inverting they do seen it happen plenty of times, and when they come down with the leading edge facing the wind you have not got a hope in hell of getting it back up.And the self launching does not appeal to me at all on the bows, c kites do it much easier.

C kites will always have their place as will bow kites depending on what you want to do and how you ride will determine what kite you buy.Greater choice in kites can only be better for everyone.

---

Glad you agree on greater choice being agood thing, we now have 5 types of widespan kites in stock and ready for demo, including the Slingshot Turbo Diesel which arrived today, and the Airush Halos which arrived on Tuesday.

I think you have misjudged the amount of faith I had in the Hellfish. I was initially impressed with the very light chrome ones we got, but they quickly developed delamination issues and were extremely difficult to tune and fly. Then the heavy as a normal kite semen coloured ones come over and started flying asymetrically and splitting, you never saw me make any positive comments after the initial light wind tests on the chrome one.
Some other people tried to keep hyping it, not me, it was a deadfish and I simply offered everyone a full refund. Most bought widespans and a few bought c's and a couple cancelled altogether and have not contacted Kitepower since.

I have a much larger faith in the widespan kite simply because they were underhyped, and yet have still outsold anything else we have ever stocked in the way of kites.

They absolutely can be relaunched from leading edge down facing you, and most of the time too, with practice.

I live and work right opposite one of the most popular spots in Sydney, I see bows out there all the time, and I use them myself. I have only seen an inversion in flight once, it was an underinflated Sonic. I have sennRci Stenning and several other hammer the crap out of CB's and SB's, the only kite Rish could manage to have issues with was the CB when he was unhooked and missed a bar pass and went towards the kite slackening the lines which allows the kite to roll through the lines, he has only ever self rescued twice. Now he is on SB's he is not having those issues at all.

I will be very keen to try the Turbo Diesel, I think it will be a very popular bow kite after a quick fly of the proto a few weeks ago.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack