Do many folks out there prefer some bigger kites tweaked out compared to smaller kites for high wind ranges?

I find I am getting a lot more range out of my kite than others are. I have a range of bars with different length (and thickness) lines for each kite & I always use different pigtail knot settings for different wind speeds. I also add pigtails to the rear lines to lessen the attack.

Rider: Weight 75kg
Level: beginner/intermediate
Style: Freeriding, Surf - only TT atm
Weather: 10-35 knots
SS Octane 11m - Rev 1 bar and 23m lines (with extra pigtails)
Build Quality: all good so far
Satisfaction: ditto
Disclosure: I hate revs (i've had 3....) but I love the Octane (no offense to rev fans, just my opinion from the level i'm at & was (no good for learning IMO), I'm sure intermediates & advanced riders find lotsa good points with revs (But I love the rev bar and lines))( they needed one so good to control that **** kite!)


Last week I kited with folks flying around on TTs and 6's & 8's up.
I would have preferred a smaller kite, like my mates Hifi 9m, but mines a rev 2 9m and it sux compared to the Octane setup depowered on the same bar and lines. I had tried these adjutments with all the Revs I owned but with only small success as sheeted (with pigtail extensions) out they take a lot of effort to steer and lose that 'famous' responsiveness.
Are there any other kites that folks have found respond well to these type of adjustments?



Yesterday the wind was building from around 14kts - when I checked with the coast guard tower folks :D - to 35 kts by the time all riders were in. I was the last.



The last 2 before me were a 10m foil who bailed the picture after an hour - before 30 is my guess and a pollie on a 8' board and 5m sail. I still could go further in the range but the holes got too big and I had been out already 2hrs. Pollie stayed upwind better than me at the high end and the foil was way better upwinding untill he blew out.

Whilst setting up on the beach I met 'jane' a kite rep and she & her man and a beginner mate, were too powered on her 9 and 10's. (no they weren't BWS but I won't say which brand but they were 2012 models - mines 2010) In any case their kites were way smaller than the 11.
I set up my kite anyway and during the process had a look at their kites.

They don't know how to adjust for winds with their pig tails. They were using mid powered settings on the 'tails front & rear & the fully powered up settings on the kite tips.
'Jane' was very adamant that for beginners you 'have to use these settings (where the manufacturers had placed a little tag with an arrow on it!) or you will get into trouble' , 'with who'? I was thinking? the pigtail police? 'Scuse me ma'am, we would like to check your pigtails and wing tips.......there's been an offence....hahahahha.
Her brain was set like concrete so I let her go with it, then she tried convincing me not to go out on my 11, at my own beach! I was thinking ..... "now, hang on..." and I thanked her for her concern, but that I had been out in worse than this (true) last friday (& thurs _ but the holes weren't as low:)
Out of the box, the 11 would not have handled this breeze,
but with an extra set on the front and 3 extra sets on the rears, this kite's range is very noice mavis.
Adjusted right out on the steering lines and with fronts pulled right in (nearly) I was comfy as a grannie in a rocking chair, except the times I missed the gust que and didn't sheet in on time....but that was fun anyhow, doing some seriously butt dragging & sticking my forearm up to the elbow in as an anchor. yeehaha )

I was all good using max power for the light blows and sheeting right in for the gusts with these settings in this wind range, though at the low lows I was sinking... I had a good sesh on the 136 custom but with the straight South & 1-2' swell it was hard to stay upwind & bust moves.
A Good test for the equipment and the Octane was nice and steady and I still had one knot on the steering lines and the wing tip adjustments to go, so I could have gone another few knots in range, though I'm not frothing to find out how much, it's nice to know the range of this kite can at least get me out while I look for an 8 or a 6 or something.

Looking forward to your replies
Thanks

Surely this has to be a troll post....?

By your own admission you are a beginner/intermediate of 75kg out in winds up to 35knots..... ON AN 11M KITE. WITH ADDED PIGTAILS... BIZZARE.

You do realise that adding 3 to the rear and one to the front is the same as just adding 2 to the rear why not add 8 to the rear and kite in 50knots.

you cant gain both bottom end and top end at the same time by adding extra pigtails.... the longer your rear lines in relation to your front the more top end you can theoretically get ( flight quality becomes compromised ) but you loose bottom end. you are just changing the kites angle of attack...adding pigtails to your front lines will rarely get you any more bottom end because the kite will actually begin to stall in the lighter winds.

An 11m kite detuned or tweaked out ( as you put it ) in higher winds will never fly as well as an appropriate sized kite say a 7 or 8m no matter what you think.

back in the day when i didn't have lots of kites id push the limits of wind range . but its not as much fun or safe as using the rightkite for the conditions

Been there tried it,12m double depower in 35 knots(95kg) no fun kite steers like s**t what's the point,all your doing is edging your ring out,would rather be flying a smaller kite wide open than a big kite so depowered,obviously is doable but why would you bother.

Thanks guys,

couple of reasons for the post.
1. a number of kites come out with no adjustments available other than the depower rope. I've used some of these and I found their range very limited.
2. I wanna make a 3 kite quiver with this kite being mumma bear. I'm after Papa bear and little wee baby bear. The quiver will be something like 17-11-6, obviously, I'm after kites with broad ranges.
3. I'm a lazy kiter an I wanna choose a kite, pump it up and know that it'll handle 10-15kts more than what is going on at launch time if necessary.

One of the reps on the beach said to me that he would've expected the kite to lose it's intended shape (for it's intended wind range) and therefore lose it's 'intended' performance characteristics & be next to useless for wind outside the 'intended' range.
But he was on the beach and I was in the water & the kite was stable. I wouldn't know if it was a Ferrari in those conditions cause I can't do Ferrari stuff or speed yet. I wasn't in survival mode the whole time either and although it was a bit of a war holding ground I got out there, hit some lips and walked 100m at the end of it.
I will get to try his kite next time he said, but I doubt he'll let me add PT's if I wanna.

I have used a couple of different 9's 8's 6's in over powered conditions and prolly the six was the pick for me but it wasn't an A M A Z I N G thing, which is what I'm after in those conditions, if it's possible, I'm thinking the catalyst or Reo or Religion or RPM or Vector, or whateva, in a small size.

I would like these kites to have a long range, as I will defo go out in 30+ if I am confident with my gear and I want to be able to push the 17m up to 20+kts. In rising winds, to be able to drop the kite and simply change the settings is a way nicer option than a run to the car and pump up another kite, rig up, rigmarol blah blah blah.
I want a kite that can handle an 'extended' range, like I can with this 11. Ie that each kites 'sweet spots' is that much broader so I can get away with a 3 kite quiver and still be in a comfy zone.

RM4 - was that 12 a SB or a Noise or some other super grunty machine? That was the point the rep on the beach was making I guess, that a 'wide open' kite is better than one way backed off?
If I liked my 9 I would defo go that in these high winds but it really is twitchy and goes off on tangents really toooo quick for me to control, (bit like my mouth haha) specially on a day with a bit of offshore in it and I am having it hit the deck heaps where with the 11 i didn't lose it once in my last 3 overpowered outings.

I only eva ventured to tweak the 11 when the 9 was in the repair shop, like what happened to all my other revs, during high wind times.
The S here comes slightly off the land and is quite gusty...... I toned down the 11 and was surprised to find it heaps more stable. It did turn slow but I was babying it so as not to get splattered. I feel it could turn faster if I get the hang of it. In any case the turns are smooth and it drifts nice at any speed, I'm not looping yet, so happy with that. The rev would have been bobbing up and down like a meerkat in these winds where this kite sat pretty.

HP - 8 PTs on the rears for 50? Nice! prolly worth a try at 40 dunno bout that x-tra 10 but...an no, not trolling a 3 year old kite m8! but you're right the extra front ones are for when it's under 15kts and i'm trying to haul in as much wind in as possible. I wasn't using these yesterday as I did have them hauled in to the second knot on the original PTs.
So I've been told, he Octanes are famous for flying over your head and spiralling to the deck, if you put them in the 'right' position. I figure this is why I this kite has not back stalled on me yet. (they prolly went too far the other way from the rev - which can do both easily :)
I think this is why it's got a long high end range? The reps of the 9s&10s said the kite would lose it's intended shape by adding PTs. But this kite goes fine with 'em.
An why would I bother?
Think back to your first year kiting and you'll remember why I bother ;) - 'cause kiting Rox bruz :P ....that and that every breeze in the last 10 days here has been 6kts or 36kts direct N or direct S and mostly as consistent as a politician - doesn't matter, if it's up i'm out there.
I'm after your views on which kites you've found extend well with PTs as I'm sure that's the only way 3 kites will comfortably cover this range, 8-38 kts
So I'm after your views on the 17's and 6's with the longest ranges and whether you've found they take adjusting in or out nicely or not? Thanks again

You actually expected people to read all of that??? I got three lines in and just said **** it.

haha lol!

17,11 Is workable. 17 goes 12-20. 11 16-28ish.
but 11-6 is to bigger gap. you will end up with a spot 25-30 knots thats getting over powered on the 11 and boring on the 6.

17,11,8 is better. you can get the better spread 20-30 and can hold the 8 to 40 if need be. yourl just miss the 35+ sessions.

ps a ran a 15,10,6 combo for a while and was annoyed during that 25-30 knot bracket when i was either overpowered or under.

add the 6 later on

Thanks Plummet, what makes were your 15-10-8 , catalysts? Foils?
Sounds like good advice. There is a ion 3 7.5m available, do you like those ones for the 17-11 -8 combo?

my quiver is

15m flysurfer speed 3 foil
13m ozone edge
10m ozone c4
8m ozone catalyst
6m ozone reo.

if i dropped to 3 it would be 15 speed, 10 c4, 8 cat.

similar but different...m
has anyone tried different bar kite combination s? in theory if all lines are like for like should work?

Thanks Plummet, it'd be a shame to lose the reo! but it sounds like you use the 8Cat more any way?

Yeah tomme, I have 3 bars I use with the 11 and 14m Griffin. 23m 25m and 35m.
23 and 35 are Slingy bars which have thick lines - 35 is SS comp bar.

25 is north trust 4 line which is better LW capable than a 25 slingy comp bar due to thinner/lighter lines. But the diff between 23 SS & 25 Nth is greater than 23 SS & 25 SS comp otherwise i'd put the 10m extensions on the Trust bar for the best LW performance I could muster with this kit.

All B&Ls front and rear are the same length

The 11 is stable and predictable on the 23's but on the Trust it's a diff kite. Way more power (& less depower available so narrower range when on the fly) & turns twice as fast. Dunno why? but the Trust bar is also a little wider.

Select to expand quote

pattiecannon said...
Thanks Plummet, it'd be a shame to lose the reo! but it sounds like you use the 8Cat more any way?

Yeah tomme, I have 3 bars I use with the 11 and 14m Griffin. 23m 25m and 35m.
23 and 35 are Slingy bars which have thick lines - 35 is SS comp bar.

25 is north trust 4 line which is better LW capable than a 25 slingy comp bar due to thinner/lighter lines. But the diff between 23 SS & 25 Nth is greater than 23 SS & 25 SS comp otherwise i'd put the 10m extensions on the Trust bar for the best LW performance I could muster with this kit.

All B&Ls front and rear are the same length

The 11 is stable and predictable on the 23's but on the Trust it's a diff kite. Way more power (& less depower available so narrower range when on the fly) & turns twice as fast. Dunno why? but the Trust bar is also a little wider.

makes sense and fits with my thinking, started as a post kite "I wonder if..." may have to try a few different combos.

Hey Tomme, I'll check your post m8,

The wind was pretty light yesterday with a lot of 14s and 13s and 12s and a lot of directionals out with 13-17kts at a guess. The Octane was keeping up and happily powered up in combo with the 149 chopstick on the 23m lines, (I had taken out the 136 custom first but was sinking) . Then it died to around 10 - 14 and barely any whitecaps. I tried the Nth bar with it's 25m lines and it was nearly but not enough. I added 3m extensions and whallah! I was out there very powered for jumps and backrolls. I had the depower on full the whole session. Very stoked on the range of this kit today and to be able to use the 11 with only very small and sporadic whitecapping going around.

All the other kites had packed down & gone in and only an Ozone (I didn't get the size as he was too far off) and I were out there. IMHO this is a pretty good indication of how an extra set of lines can help make a 3 kite quiver a viable option. I would imagine a lot of 15's & 17's would have been very over powered up in last nights conditions making the extra bar sets the best way to blend the 17 11 and 8 together. I could have grabbed my 14 with some 23m lines but it is a slow kite and gets overpowered very quickly so I was much happier with this 28m line option on the 11. The only negative being that at these wind speeds and in the surf the kite was a beeatch to relaunch so I think I'll give up trying new moves in these low wind strengths days.

Any thoughts out there on this or about 3 kite quivers that can do all wind ranges without pushing them to high or low in any given wind strength? These would be great to read cheers

Your gonna end up in hospital using an 11m in anything over 25 knots at your weight mate. An 8m kite will solve a lot of your problems.