Hi Peeps,

What is wrong with people that makes them criticize and slam any new product? I've been in the water sports industry for many years and have seen a lot of new products over the years. Some of those products have been pure gold, and some have been pure crap. Unfortunately some people take it upon themselves to tear down anything new without having any reason nor any experience with a product.

Do these people have to tear down everything around them to prop up their own shakey self esteem?

I am one of the most cynical dealers and always go to the the meetings about new products with an open mind and a closed mouth. I dismiss the hype (I hate that sh1t), but am eager to jump on whatever gear is available so I can make up my own mind. I pick the minds of others so I see things from angles I may miss, but it doesn't sway me from my own experience.

Bottom line is don't knock it until you've tried it. (Good rule to live by) We have almost every product we sell in demo for this very reason.

DM

Select to expand quote

ActionSportsWA said..
Hi Peeps,

What is wrong with people that makes them criticize and slam any new product? I've been in the water sports industry for many years and have seen a lot of new products over the years. Some of those products have been pure gold, and some have been pure crap. Unfortunately some people take it upon themselves to tear down anything new without having any reason nor any experience with a product.

Do these people have to tear down everything around them to prop up their own shakey self esteem?

I am one of the most cynical dealers and always go to the the meetings about new products with an open mind and a closed mouth. I dismiss the hype (I hate that sh1t), but am eager to jump on whatever gear is available so I can make up my own mind. I pick the minds of others so I see things from angles I may miss, but it doesn't sway me from my own experience.

Bottom line is don't knock it until you've tried it. (Good rule to live by) We have almost every product we sell in demo for this very reason.

DM

Agreed, I have always thought its one of the best things about surfsports they way they continually evolve. I'm going to try the butterfly wing on my sup just for the hell of it and if I don't like it I'll none the worse off!

Agree with much of that DM. And the ability to demo can surely save a lot of grief. Props to those stores who offer this.

I suspect your original post was about the wingsurfer bashing, and I'm pretty dismisive of them myself, but that conversation has some broader context too, and I'll elaborate my thoughts on that below

Even with a demo, long-term durability of a product is hard to gauge, and this is one area where some brands seem happy to let their customers do the testing and suffer the consequences that should have been eliminated through in-house testing.
Especially with foiling there has been a rush to get a slice of the market that has involved cutting many corners on design and materials R&D, and real world testing. Even if warranty rights are successfully pursued it can be a serious hassle AND, still leaves a useless product (or whole production runs of product) headed to landfill. For a sport that involves using and appreciating the natural world this should be especially unacceptable. So much for the materials/durability angle.

On the marketing side there are many individuals and companies in the industry who are very cynical towards punters, treating us like docile wallets or easily hyped morons and advertising to us as though we came down in the last shower. I've been a punter and sponsored rider in wind sports since the 80s, so I've seen plenty of fads and gimmicks and false promises of game-changing come and go, and like many on here, have probably developed a nose for such things and am defended against them, but it still p!sses me off to see noobs getting fooled into buying badly designed crap.

For those with integrity, companies and individuals, I have much encouragement and appreciation. I love a well designed product and am happy to pay for it. For the rest, I think Banksy nailed it, and much of the satirical posting on seabreeze is in this spirit, even if not always well calibrated.

People are taking the piss out of you everyday. They butt into your life, take a cheap shot at you and then disappear. They leer at you from tall buildings and make you feel small. They make flippant comments from buses that imply you're not sexy enough and that all the fun is happening somewhere else. They are on TV making your girlfriend feel inadequate. They have access to the most sophisticated technology the world has ever seen and they bully you with it. They are The Advertisers and they are laughing at you. You, however, are forbidden to touch them. Trademarks, intellectual property rights and copyright law mean advertisers can say what they like wherever they like with total impunity. **** that. Any advert in a public space that gives you no choice whether you see it or not is yours. It's yours to take, re-arrange and re-use. You can do whatever you like with it. Asking for permission is like asking to keep a rock someone just threw at your head. You owe the companies nothing. Less than nothing, you especially don't owe them any courtesy. They owe you. They have re-arranged the world to put themselves in front of you. They never asked for your permission, don't even start asking for theirs.

All right DM you e talked me into it I'll give it a go

I always thought you had wings and could fly but were a fairy...

I hate positive reviews. They mean very little if nothing to me. Often written by people who dont know **** or havent experienced much. In the sporting world they arent even pushing the product to its limits.

I break equipment. I push those limits. I get confused faces as i hand in my 4th broken leash within 2 months where as most people have theyre leash last for a decade. Im also very protective of my gear for these reasons. I study how its all made. I research the manufacturing processes used to create them and why they used that process. I need to do this. Cause equipment costs alot of money and when your actually pushing its limits and for what honestly is a live or die situation you would be a complete idiot to not know whats going to keep you alive or kill you.

So when you see gear thats potentially fatal because its so poorly made or sub par i feel its important to BE NEGATIVE.

First thing i do when im interested in any product is seek out those negative comments and reviews. They might save my money or my life.

But enough of me...

What do you do when your searching your accomodation or restauarant reviews?

You would be a fool to not take them into consideration. And i bet you notice if theyre is alot of 1 star reviews.

Take the same approach with your sporting goods. And just like the restaurant review there will be a bunch of positives and some nutjob who gave it 0 stars cause the sunlight was too bright thru the window.

But if theres a dozen 0 star reviews with storys of fecal matter in the choclate mousse. You might want to do some further investigateing.


The fact that negative reviews or comments against site sponsors on here get removed sometimes is a real disservice to the community. We can all spot the bloke who just writes crap with an axe to grind. And we can all spot the brand pimp or even the kook who thinks cause he jumped 5m high on his new kite compared to his 8 year old bagged out handy down that this nee kite is the best thing ever. So if you have experience in the field and can see all these characters play out theyre dance.... Research. If your a dealer talk to the reps.

Im yet to meet a rep that can answer any of the retarded questions i have for them. Something so stupid like whats the rated weight load limit of your spreader bars?!? Who asks that?!? I dont know that?!? Yet here we all are hanging off these things blindly trusting our lives without actually knowing anything at all about what we are even useing.

Speaking of reviews ill give my first review.

I havent broken my ion www.ion-products.com/water/kiteboarding/accessories/leashes/handlepass-leash-20-comp/ handlepass leash yet (quite a few years now) . And theyres an actual weight load limit imprinted on the carabiner unlike every single other one ive ever used.

So ask questions get facts promote the facts and burn the obvious bull**** products into the ground. You might just save someones life.

Select to expand quote

causehecan said..
I hate positive reviews. They mean very little if nothing to me. Often written by people who dont know **** or havent experienced much. In the sporting world they arent even pushing the product to its limits.

I break equipment. I push those limits. I get confused faces as i hand in my 4th broken leash within 2 months where as most people have theyre leash last for a decade. Im also very protective of my gear for these reasons. I study how its all made. I research the manufacturing processes used to create them and why they used that process. I need to do this. Cause equipment costs alot of money and when your actually pushing its limits and for what honestly is a live or die situation you would be a complete idiot to not know whats going to keep you alive or kill you.

So when you see gear thats potentially fatal because its so poorly made or sub par i feel its important to BE NEGATIVE.

First thing i do when im interested in any product is seek out those negative comments and reviews. They might save my money or my life.

But enough of me...

What do you do when your searching your accomodation or restauarant reviews?

You would be a fool to not take them into consideration. And i bet you notice if theyre is alot of 1 star reviews.

Take the same approach with your sporting goods. And just like the restaurant review there will be a bunch of positives and some nutjob who gave it 0 stars cause the sunlight was too bright thru the window.

But if theres a dozen 0 star reviews with storys of fecal matter in the choclate mousse. You might want to do some further investigateing.


The fact that negative reviews or comments against site sponsors on here get removed sometimes is a real disservice to the community. We can all spot the bloke who just writes crap with an axe to grind. And we can all spot the brand pimp or even the kook who thinks cause he jumped 5m high on his new kite compared to his 8 year old bagged out handy down that this nee kite is the best thing ever. So if you have experience in the field and can see all these characters play out theyre dance.... Research. If your a dealer talk to the reps.

Im yet to meet a rep that can answer any of the retarded questions i have for them. Something so stupid like whats the rated weight load limit of your spreader bars?!? Who asks that?!? I dont know that?!? Yet here we all are hanging off these things blindly trusting our lives without actually knowing anything at all about what we are even useing.

Speaking of reviews ill give my first review.

I havent broken my ion www.ion-products.com/water/kiteboarding/accessories/leashes/handlepass-leash-20-comp/ handlepass leash yet (quite a few years now) . And theyres an actual weight load limit imprinted on the carabiner unlike every single other one ive ever used.

So ask questions get facts promote the facts and burn the obvious bull**** products into the ground. You might just save someones life.

da ta dah, drums ponding and organ intro
Who are you masked warrior avenger.

wow 4 broken leash's in 2 months WTF you do with them, think I might be forming a man crush!

agree tho need balanced ledger

Hi Peeps,

There is nothing wrong with negetive or positive posts or reviews so long as the poster has actually had personal experience with the reviewed item. It's the negetive posts without having tried an item that get me miffed.

DM

*negative

I was amazed when people laughed at me for inventing Street Rollerblade SUP.

Yeah it might look a little weird, but it feels magic to be hooning around on a set of fruit boots pushing along with a broomstick, so up yours!!! I'm shredding the gnar on the regular 24-7-365, brah!

I think what chris is saying is you dont need to climb into the septic tank to know theres **** inside of it.

But seriously, i can tell how most kites and wings will fly from almost just the measurements alone and i can tell how well its made etc with a 5 second eyeballing of it. Dont know why you would be surprised someone might think foiling is boreing as bats when all you have seen is old kooks going back and fourth and same goes for the wingaling. A real good indicator is when you see a world champion literally be used to market a product and you fall asleep trying to watch it.

On a personal note i dont even rate strapless surfing on a kite. I love surfing just not with a kite. Its like putting an engine on a paraglider. Kills the entire point of it. Not a popular opinion but thats the sort of elitest wankerish level im at.

My thing is when i see a sport i see what its good at. What its not. And i dont try kite in 5 knots cause thats great conditions for paragliding. Or scuba diving or rock climbing if its raining its time for white water kayaking. But companys try to push **** on people when conditions arent suitable. Look at all those 19m lei kites we had being made fair few years ago. I think we were getting 1knot per sqm by time the weight of kite factored in.

Now they got foilboards so they have you by the balls in light wind and you wont be leaveing them or taking your wallet to another sport.

Anyways if you really cant tell a product is **** until you use it i would love to give you a go at my rock climbing kite. Just let me know when you have your affairs in order.

Select to expand quote

causehecan said..
I hate positive reviews. They mean very little if nothing to me. Often written by people who dont know **** or havent experienced much. In the sporting world they arent even pushing the product to its limits.

I break equipment. I push those limits. I get confused faces as i hand in my 4th broken leash within 2 months where as most people have theyre leash last for a decade. Im also very protective of my gear for these reasons. I study how its all made. I research the manufacturing processes used to create them and why they used that process. I need to do this. Cause equipment costs alot of money and when your actually pushing its limits and for what honestly is a live or die situation you would be a complete idiot to not know whats going to keep you alive or kill you.

So when you see gear thats potentially fatal because its so poorly made or sub par i feel its important to BE NEGATIVE.

First thing i do when im interested in any product is seek out those negative comments and reviews. They might save my money or my life.

But enough of me...

What do you do when your searching your accomodation or restauarant reviews?

You would be a fool to not take them into consideration. And i bet you notice if theyre is alot of 1 star reviews.

Take the same approach with your sporting goods. And just like the restaurant review there will be a bunch of positives and some nutjob who gave it 0 stars cause the sunlight was too bright thru the window.

But if theres a dozen 0 star reviews with storys of fecal matter in the choclate mousse. You might want to do some further investigateing.


The fact that negative reviews or comments against site sponsors on here get removed sometimes is a real disservice to the community. We can all spot the bloke who just writes crap with an axe to grind. And we can all spot the brand pimp or even the kook who thinks cause he jumped 5m high on his new kite compared to his 8 year old bagged out handy down that this nee kite is the best thing ever. So if you have experience in the field and can see all these characters play out theyre dance.... Research. If your a dealer talk to the reps.

Im yet to meet a rep that can answer any of the retarded questions i have for them. Something so stupid like whats the rated weight load limit of your spreader bars?!? Who asks that?!? I dont know that?!? Yet here we all are hanging off these things blindly trusting our lives without actually knowing anything at all about what we are even useing.

Speaking of reviews ill give my first review.

I havent broken my ion www.ion-products.com/water/kiteboarding/accessories/leashes/handlepass-leash-20-comp/ handlepass leash yet (quite a few years now) . And theyres an actual weight load limit imprinted on the carabiner unlike every single other one ive ever used.

So ask questions get facts promote the facts and burn the obvious bull**** products into the ground. You might just save someones life.

Interesting! When I travel or eat out(very rare) i focus mostly on positive reviews as that reflects my attitude to life. I look for the good things. I also understand everyone stuffs up so dont assume that will happen to me.

Agree with you that if a product is dangerous or
has more risk than is declared it needs to be called out for remediation.

Select to expand quote

causehecan said..
I think what chris is saying is you dont need to climb into the septic tank to know theres **** inside of it.

But seriously, i can tell how most kites and wings will fly from almost just the measurements alone and i can tell how well its made etc with a 5 second eyeballing of it. Dont know why you would be surprised someone might think foiling is boreing as bats when all you have seen is old kooks going back and fourth and same goes for the wingaling. A real good indicator is when you see a world champion literally be used to market a product and you fall asleep trying to watch it.

On a personal note i dont even rate strapless surfing on a kite. I love surfing just not with a kite. Its like putting an engine on a paraglider. Kills the entire point of it. Not a popular opinion but thats the sort of elitest wankerish level im at.

My thing is when i see a sport i see what its good at. What its not. And i dont try kite in 5 knots cause thats great conditions for paragliding. Or scuba diving or rock climbing if its raining its time for white water kayaking. But companys try to push **** on people when conditions arent suitable. Look at all those 19m lei kites we had being made fair few years ago. I think we were getting 1knot per sqm by time the weight of kite factored in.

Now they got foilboards so they have you by the balls in light wind and you wont be leaveing them or taking your wallet to another sport.

Anyways if you really cant tell a product is **** until you use it i would love to give you a go at my rock climbing kite. Just let me know when you have your affairs in order.

are you Kozzie reinvented?

...and I thought I was the biggest dribbler of nonsense on here.

Select to expand quote

cauncy said..
All right DM you e talked me into it I'll give it a go

Okay Mick with with a wingsurfer thingy (supplied by Dazza) in your hands ...

then its all our shouts for pints on Saturday night.

Select to expand quote

cauncy said..
All right DM you e talked me into it I'll give it a go

The blue seems to be a bit macho, think you should get out of your comfort zone a bit more

Why so negative? Australians are the probably the biggest sarcastic whingers in the world.

Go to an international kite holiday destination and listen to kiters from all over the world talk over a beer after a day out on the water...

Useful when filtering an endless stream of supposed "game changing" products but tiring on all other occasions.

Agree though, if you haven't tried a product you're opinion is pure speculation.

Speaking of game changers, apparently Ocean Rodeo have come across a new fabric that is 10x stronger than others and half the weight. To be released in a few months...

I see several reasons.

1) Sheeple. People blindly follow the what's cool.

2) Some people just want to watch the world burn.

3) You know what you don't like. So even without trying it you know it's not you you.

4)

The same reason people slag out or don't ride mutants. They are to scared to look different and stand out from the crowd.
Me I couldn't care less, whatever floats your boat go for it, just don't bag out people who do it differently to you

Select to expand quote

ActionSportsWA said..
Hi Peeps,

What is wrong with people that makes them criticize and slam any new product? I've been in the water sports industry for many years and have seen a lot of new products over the years. Some of those products have been pure gold, and some have been pure crap. Unfortunately some people take it upon themselves to tear down anything new without having any reason nor any experience with a product.

Do these people have to tear down everything around them to prop up their own shakey self esteem?

I am one of the most cynical dealers and always go to the the meetings about new products with an open mind and a closed mouth. I dismiss the hype (I hate that sh1t), but am eager to jump on whatever gear is available so I can make up my own mind. I pick the minds of others so I see things from angles I may miss, but it doesn't sway me from my own experience.

Bottom line is don't knock it until you've tried it. (Good rule to live by) We have almost every product we sell in demo for this very reason.

DM

Think most of it was not serious.

Eppo ,
not the biggest dribbler here by a long way

Wow there is some serious amounts of words that some have written regards to post,

Must be no wind or waves from where they are or are they couch surfers and seriously when do any of us really look at them for what they are

Enjoy the Stoke not the reviews , the reviews are well what they are a review

Select to expand quote

eppo said..
...and I thought I was the biggest dribbler of nonsense on here.

Select to expand quote

Richoa said..

causehecan said..
I hate positive reviews. They mean very little if nothing to me. Often written by people who dont know **** or havent experienced much. In the sporting world they arent even pushing the product to its limits.

I break equipment. I push those limits. I get confused faces as i hand in my 4th broken leash within 2 months where as most people have theyre leash last for a decade. Im also very protective of my gear for these reasons. I study how its all made. I research the manufacturing processes used to create them and why they used that process. I need to do this. Cause equipment costs alot of money and when your actually pushing its limits and for what honestly is a live or die situation you would be a complete idiot to not know whats going to keep you alive or kill you.

So when you see gear thats potentially fatal because its so poorly made or sub par i feel its important to BE NEGATIVE.

First thing i do when im interested in any product is seek out those negative comments and reviews. They might save my money or my life.

But enough of me...

What do you do when your searching your accomodation or restauarant reviews?

You would be a fool to not take them into consideration. And i bet you notice if theyre is alot of 1 star reviews.

Take the same approach with your sporting goods. And just like the restaurant review there will be a bunch of positives and some nutjob who gave it 0 stars cause the sunlight was too bright thru the window.

But if theres a dozen 0 star reviews with storys of fecal matter in the choclate mousse. You might want to do some further investigateing.


The fact that negative reviews or comments against site sponsors on here get removed sometimes is a real disservice to the community. We can all spot the bloke who just writes crap with an axe to grind. And we can all spot the brand pimp or even the kook who thinks cause he jumped 5m high on his new kite compared to his 8 year old bagged out handy down that this nee kite is the best thing ever. So if you have experience in the field and can see all these characters play out theyre dance.... Research. If your a dealer talk to the reps.

Im yet to meet a rep that can answer any of the retarded questions i have for them. Something so stupid like whats the rated weight load limit of your spreader bars?!? Who asks that?!? I dont know that?!? Yet here we all are hanging off these things blindly trusting our lives without actually knowing anything at all about what we are even useing.

Speaking of reviews ill give my first review.

I havent broken my ion www.ion-products.com/water/kiteboarding/accessories/leashes/handlepass-leash-20-comp/ handlepass leash yet (quite a few years now) . And theyres an actual weight load limit imprinted on the carabiner unlike every single other one ive ever used.

So ask questions get facts promote the facts and burn the obvious bull**** products into the ground. You might just save someones life.

da ta dah, drums ponding and organ intro
Who are you masked warrior avenger.

wow 4 broken leash's in 2 months WTF you do with them, think I might be forming a man crush!

agree tho need balanced ledger

Yep sounds like he needs a medal breaking 4 leashes legend

I think people are negative because we are sick of being fed sh.., sick of being told about game changers and that we should spend money in things that aren't really going to make that much difference.

Select to expand quote

CJ2478 said..

causehecan said..
I think what chris is saying is you dont need to climb into the septic tank to know theres **** inside of it.

But seriously, i can tell how most kites and wings will fly from almost just the measurements alone and i can tell how well its made etc with a 5 second eyeballing of it. Dont know why you would be surprised someone might think foiling is boreing as bats when all you have seen is old kooks going back and fourth and same goes for the wingaling. A real good indicator is when you see a world champion literally be used to market a product and you fall asleep trying to watch it.

On a personal note i dont even rate strapless surfing on a kite. I love surfing just not with a kite. Its like putting an engine on a paraglider. Kills the entire point of it. Not a popular opinion but thats the sort of elitest wankerish level im at.

My thing is when i see a sport i see what its good at. What its not. And i dont try kite in 5 knots cause thats great conditions for paragliding. Or scuba diving or rock climbing if its raining its time for white water kayaking. But companys try to push **** on people when conditions arent suitable. Look at all those 19m lei kites we had being made fair few years ago. I think we were getting 1knot per sqm by time the weight of kite factored in.

Now they got foilboards so they have you by the balls in light wind and you wont be leaveing them or taking your wallet to another sport.

Anyways if you really cant tell a product is **** until you use it i would love to give you a go at my rock climbing kite. Just let me know when you have your affairs in order.

are you Kozzie reinvented?

I can pass a breathalyzer

There is some serious FKSTIX on here for a sport that is so ****** fun. Everyone I know that has commented on this forum has had a negative experience here. Its just got to stop ...STOP THE KNOB.

Select to expand quote

AndreC said..
There is some serious FKSTIX on here for a sport that is so ****** fun. Everyone I know that has commented on this forum has had a negative experience here. Its just got to stop ...STOP THE KNOB.

Crash, that's the sound of your glass house smashing around you.

Kind of ironic coming on here to say the forum is negative and then calling everyone knobs.,. Or did DM pay you to post that, or gave you another nice discount?? Your words hold no value after your ridiculous past claims, don't like it? Don't use it!

I personally love the banter and very very honest opinions, that's how you work out which product are good and which are all spin.

We're all knobs. Fight the power. It's fun being apart of it.

As Israel Folau once said 'knobs shall inherit the Earth'

The big question is - Did your 8 year old daughter make this meme?

If not, why have you used comic sans?

Might be quite fitting actually - wingsurfing appears to be the comic sans of watersports from the sooky bubba waa waahs I have seen crying on this thread so far

Select to expand quote

ActionSportsWA said..
Hi Peeps,

There is nothing wrong with negetive or positive posts or reviews so long as the poster has actually had personal experience with the reviewed item. It's the negetive posts without having tried an item that get me miffed.

DM

George Michael had his way with all the worlds most stunning women, then went gay, I still thought nahhh not for me

Select to expand quote

AndreC said..
There is some serious FKSTIX on here for a sport that is so ****** fun. Everyone I know that has commented on this forum has had a negative experience here. Its just got to stop ...STOP THE KNOB.

On the subject of knobs I'm a bit of one, but a hook would be better to hang it on the garage wall next to the guitar you never got around to use