Rider: Weight,Level (beginner,intermediate,advanced): 55 Kg, 150 Lbs, intermediate-advanced
Style: Surf
Weather: 15-25 knots

Ok here's a toughie. I'm looking to replace my BWS Noises 8 and 10 (2010 and 2012 models respectively). I have loved these kites: the simplicity, the bar, the bar pressure, the bar throw (love that it is so long allowing great range and freedom of movement), the build, the low-end power, among others, but they're getting old and I want to explore new alternatives. I'd like to buy no more than two kites and possibly expand my range in the high end (the 8, which is really a 10, was getting too much on windy days).

In any case, there are two kites that I have had my eye on: The North Neo and the FOne Bandit. Although I have tried the Bandit once, I really did not spend a lot of time on it to be able to answer all my questions. And the Neo I have a feel would be a good replacement for the BWS as, from what I have read, they sound very similar in flying characteristics (except possibly for bar pressure) as well as power.

Let's get started: I ride waves almost exclusively, mostly side-on, so that is the main focus. However, when the wind gets strong I do like to boost some airs on either a twintip or strapped surfboard. My logic is that, therefore, the kite for stronger wind, i.e., the smaller one, should be a better jumper.

From what I've heard, the FOne is a better allrounder (although confused here as I have also read the Neo is pretty good for jumps), so that would be the choice for stronger winds. Assuming the Bandits are true to size, I'd replace my 8 Noise with, possibly, a 8 or 9 Bandit. That would take care of improving my high end range and having a kite that is good for waves but also for boosting airs in my stronger wind window.

That would leave the Neo as the larger kite to replace the 10 Noise (which is really like a 12), for use in the lighter wind window and almost exclusively for use in waves, light-wind surfboard messing-around and foiling (which I haven't tried yet). So, assuming the Noise and Neo are similar in power levels (both prescribe one or two sizes smaller), I'd have to get a 10 Neo.

That would leave me with a 8 or 9 Bandit and a 10 or 11 Neo.

Now, ideally, I would only get one of the two bars, either the North or the FOne. I think both bars are amazing, but have had some problems before adapting bars to other brands' kites.

So, there you have it. If anyone has had experience with these kites and/or bars, I would really like to hear some comments and opinions on this. Reasoned attacks on my logic are most welcome as I'm trying to figure out how to better invest my money.

Cheers

I had the 8 and 10 BWS and have replaced them with 8, 10, 12 Slingshot SST. The SST seem to drift a little better in my opinion.

DLT if I weighed 55Kgs and I was looking for kites to suit 15 - 25Knts in the surf on an SB.
I'd think you'd be fine with a modern 9m for 15+ knts and a 5m or 6m for the 22+ Knts.

Try the Core Section kites in size 6 and 8 for the wind range you are looking to cover. They are light , and have a large wind range.
Every time I take mine out, I love the kite more. If you are low budget, then a single kite in size 7 will even sort you out(at your weight) between 15-34 knots on a directional...

I would stick to 1 brand of kite. Combining the Bandits and the Norths is probably a no-go, since Bandits have a very high Y-split on the centerlines while North bar has more of a lower V-split - this can influence the behaviours of the kites significantly! Also, if you do swap bars (not recommended), make sure the safety system is the same!

I haven't flown the Neo but am very interested in how it jumps as well, since I am looking for a surfkite that also boosts high and loops nicely when the wind is ON for some TT action. I have flown the Bandits and they are fine all round kites that jump easily, but when compared to my 2015 North Dices the Bandits are heavier on the bar, and I prefer the direct nimble feeling of the Norths. Also not sure how the Neo's bar pressure will be but I believe it will be nice soft and smooth. Both great kites though, it's a matter of preference - try and test them if possible!

Regarding the sizes: Bandits have a very good low end too, and with your weight on a surfboard I would be looking at a Bandit/Neo 10m+7m MAX, maybe even a 9m + 6/5m as mentioned above.

Some good advice so far. Definitely don't mix and match kites if your conditions are stable (side shore surf... Surfboard when lighter, then TT).

I would be going for a one kite quiver given you are up for changing boards. At 55kg, I would be going for a modern 8m or 7m... But what would I know as I am 100kg...

You could even spend your saved money to get a light wind machine like an Airush Sector, Slayer or a hydrofoil?

try the slingshot SST or my preferred Liquid Force WOW. These two surf kites have great boost with ultra narrow leading edge and supportive bridle setup that joins at the centre.

I'm hanging for 30 knot winds in Perth this December , January . I have a neo in the 7 m . So far I have found it boosts well in 20 knots .I have ridden the Vegas for free riding in the past before I got into downwinder wave riding .
I also have the ozone reo and the Neo definantly got better boost than that .My reo I usually kite with it in light wind downwinders.

I just bought a jimmy Lewis and I can't wait to match that with the Neo 7m in 30 knots for a wave and boost session. I'll get some pics .I m expecting it to get close to my Vegas for g force vertical boost and more hang time due to its fatter canopy .
I'll post next month with the pics and a review.

If youve been on BWS take a look at their new Aeneemas. Ive been thru Bandits and recent Neos, and for me in the good or bad wind/waves the Aeneema brings it all together more smoothly, easier to forget about it, predictable turning and nice upwind. Great kite for beach conditions if you want to think more about the board and the water rather than the kite. More allround than its more dedicated wave Noise Pro kite, but still super drift.

I love my 9 Neo kite so much that I am building my quiver of 2nd hand 2015 Neo's kite. The only thing I don't like it the bar back line adjustment cover. They have come undone and the plastic has cracked. Why do I love the NEO
1 - power I can ride one or two size kite lower
2 - drifting
3 - turning speed
4 -relunching
5 -good quality.

cheers

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strekke said..
I would stick to 1 brand of kite. Combining the Bandits and the Norths is probably a no-go, since Bandits have a very high Y-split on the centerlines while North bar has more of a lower V-split - this can influence the behaviours of the kites significantly! Also, if you do swap bars (not recommended), make sure the safety system is the same!

I haven't flown the Neo but am very interested in how it jumps as well, since I am looking for a surfkite that also boosts high and loops nicely when the wind is ON for some TT action. I have flown the Bandits and they are fine all round kites that jump easily, but when compared to my 2015 North Dices the Bandits are heavier on the bar, and I prefer the direct nimble feeling of the Norths. Also not sure how the Neo's bar pressure will be but I believe it will be nice soft and smooth. Both great kites though, it's a matter of preference - try and test them if possible!

Regarding the sizes: Bandits have a very good low end too, and with your weight on a surfboard I would be looking at a Bandit/Neo 10m+7m MAX, maybe even a 9m + 6/5m as mentioned above.

Yeah, I know the one bar for two different brands is not ideal, not even recommended, but I just liked the Bandit and monolith bar a lot. However, maybe you have an idea there with getting a Dice instead of the Neo for the stronger wind. I'm not sure which one will jump better, although from the paper the Dice should as it's supposedly more freeride oriented. Do you think the Dice jumps better than the Bandit?

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Jasonwave said..
If youve been on BWS take a look at their new Aeneemas. Ive been thru Bandits and recent Neos, and for me in the good or bad wind/waves the Aeneema brings it all together more smoothly, easier to forget about it, predictable turning and nice upwind. Great kite for beach conditions if you want to think more about the board and the water rather than the kite. More allround than its more dedicated wave Noise Pro kite, but still super drift.

Thanks for the feedback. I was considering the Aeneema too but haven't heard a lot about it (which is normal for Ben Wilsons anyway, probably the most underrated kites out there). Is this kite to be ordered one size smaller as the Noise was?

You said you have used Neos. How do they compare, power-wise, especially in the low end range, with the original Noises? Would you say they are equivalent? With my Noises I have to say what the manufacturer recommended did apply exactly: the 8 is like a 10 and the 10 is a truck. Just wanted to know in case I did decide to replace the Noise with a Neo. Also, the Noise was supposed to be a good kite for unhooking, after all Ben was famous for riding waves unhooked, but the Neo does not even recommend using it for unhooked riding (in fact, it says it doesn't wok well at all). That IMO would be a definite weakness as it's always nice to have the possibility of riding unhooked.

I haven't used the Noise Pros either, but I thought they tried to make them more overall kites (compared to the original Noises)? The TDZ seems to be their new super dedicated wave kite. Have you tried that one? It'd also be an interesting choice.

I've been thinking about upgrading too and ride SB in waves in the 15-25 knot range also, with very occasional TT days when the swell is tiny. Only difference is i'm a fat bastard and weigh 100kg. I think my current top 3 i would like to demo are:

1) Naish Pivot
2) North Neo
3) Slingshot SST

all in 12m 9m 7m - if I had the cash that is!!!!

If you don't want to "break the bank" but want a couple of new kites. Check out the Switch Element 4, great quality (kites are as good as any, the bar is average but does the job). Performance is as good as any other wave kite I've flown, I bought a 9 & 7m + bar for about the same price as 1 big brand kite complete.
Just something to think about.

RRD Religon, been the longest wave kite on the market , proven over many years.

Have changed and bought to BWS , Reo, and tried three others over the last few years , going back to the 2015 religions this year.

Not the cheapest , but proven performer and strength.

Call SOS Fremantle, John Geyer, he ships all over Aus and fantastic after sales service no matter where you live

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DLT said..

Jasonwave said..
If youve been on BWS take a look at their new Aeneemas. Ive been thru Bandits and recent Neos, and for me in the good or bad wind/waves the Aeneema brings it all together more smoothly, easier to forget about it, predictable turning and nice upwind. Great kite for beach conditions if you want to think more about the board and the water rather than the kite. More allround than its more dedicated wave Noise Pro kite, but still super drift.

Thanks for the feedback. I was considering the Aeneema too but haven't heard a lot about it (which is normal for Ben Wilsons anyway, probably the most underrated kites out there). Is this kite to be ordered one size smaller as the Noise was?

You said you have used Neos. How do they compare, power-wise, especially in the low end range, with the original Noises? Would you say they are equivalent? With my Noises I have to say what the manufacturer recommended did apply exactly: the 8 is like a 10 and the 10 is a truck. Just wanted to know in case I did decide to replace the Noise with a Neo. Also, the Noise was supposed to be a good kite for unhooking, after all Ben was famous for riding waves unhooked, but the Neo does not even recommend using it for unhooked riding (in fact, it says it doesn't wok well at all). That IMO would be a definite weakness as it's always nice to have the possibility of riding unhooked.

I haven't used the Noise Pros either, but I thought they tried to make them more overall kites (compared to the original Noises)? The TDZ seems to be their new super dedicated wave kite. Have you tried that one? It'd also be an interesting choice.

I have Aeneemas. I love them. I havnt been out in big swell with them yet but there is no doubt that they are excellent wave kites. Ian Alldredge digs them - our local shop rider was out with him recently. The shop rider has in the past been closer to North and Naish, but has now put the Aeneemas to the top of his list. Hes French, and yet doesnt favour the local Fone Bandits for his wave sessions.

I havnt ridden the Noise Classic. The Aeneema has moderate power so I would imagine its a size down on the NC given its grunty reputation.

I also have 8 and 6m TDZs, these are basically retweeked Noise Pros that respond a bit quicker and that you can put more into to get more movement compared to the NP. Designed for depower and drift, probably as good as you can get For that - Ideal for unhooking. They have sold out in Europe. A little too dedicated wave for my travels as I now have to cater for my intermediate kids too, for which the Aeneems are more 'sheet and go' accessible.

The Neos have grunt. That could be the problem with unhooking them, tho havnt tried. I found the power more on/off compared to the smoothness of the NP and Aeneema. That could make the Neos closer to your NC feel.

Bar needs to be considered too. I found the North bar less reassuring than the BWS one. The Neos fly best with the North bar, they didnt like flying with the BWS bar at all - something to do with the height of the Y connection apparently. Fone kites fly best with their own bars too apparently (also they have different front and rear length strings).

The Bar / Kite set up of the Aeneema makes it a fabulous piece of kit to have fun on a wavey beach. If you tend to wait for it to really pump, then the TDZ is made for that. But I recon theres a big difference in feel to the NC, you should try out before if you can.

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topturn said..
Try the Core Section kites in size 6 and 8 for the wind range you are looking to cover. They are light , and have a large wind range.
Every time I take mine out, I love the kite more. If you are low budget, then a single kite in size 7 will even sort you out(at your weight) between 15-34 knots on a directional...

I also recommend the Core section wave kites I just got a 7m. 9m. 11m. I've ridden the 9m twice now and after coming off Neos and dices i preference the section as a wave kite and it's a fun free ride kite too. I also ride the core gts3 and like it for waves and it's such a good free ride and boosting kite much like the dice.

M8, bandits are a turn an follow kite and they boost unreal. Great for Downwinders but you are holding ground mainly riding waves into the wind. Ocean Rodeo Prodigy is the best kite fit this. No getting ripped of the face that the dice and bandit and most free ride kites will do. neo is a great kite but Prodigy's have better low end, are more stable& turn quicker
Lots of demos going on in Qld atm & the Core sections will be there also. Once you ride Prodigy you won't look back. 9.5m & 7m will be a good quiver for your weight. I ride the 7 in 25- 35+ at 75kg. 7 is "the one".
Good luck with you search

If you have never ridden small kites before, you need to try a few. Small kites are great and at 55kg you should have no worries. They have less grunt but you can generate good apparent wind by flying them around.

Start thinking 5-9m. I am 67kg and for 15-25kn I would get 5,7,9 or 5,8 or 6,9 depending on brand/type of kite.