Rider: 95kgs, advanced
Style: Freeriding, Wake, Freestyle

Heya everyone, Need help in choosing new kite ! !

Am riding Bandits 4 at the moment and am extremely happy with them so don't want to change them. What I would like to do is to get another high performance kite to progress my kitelooping and unhooked. Thinking between TORCH and VEGAS

My thoughts: I suspect that Vegas can be a lot like my bandits so am slightly leaning towards torch. I don't want to demo them cuz yu never get enough riding time on either to actually say that one or other is better (giving you manage to demo them in same size and conditions - highly unlikely) so I just want to buy something around 10-12m size (2012 model) and just use it for the season.

Level of Riding: happily doing supermans, rolls and begging kiteloops. Have B4s in 10m and 12m.

Please don't confuse me throwing in more C-kites for me to consider as it's hard enough between the two of them.[}:)]

Qzi

Hey, I know the B3 and B4 are quite different to each other but......

I have a 9m B3 and a 9m Vegas - completely different feel. The Vegas have a real C kite feeling, where as my B3 is a lofty bugger of a beast!

As soon as I strapped on the Vegas it felt like looping time but its a hell of a lot more intimidating on the Bandit cos its so powerful.

I dont think you can go wrong with wither the Vegas or the Torch man, just get whatever will sting you less in the pocket, or has the pwetty colours you like.

How do they compare power wise,

I guess Bandit 9m is not quite equivalent to Vegas 9 in wind range coverage is it? Im 95kg so probably 11m would be a go as B4 10m equvalent ?

Im 100kg, the B3 has heeeeps more power than the vegas (if that's the comparison you are after?).

As far as power between torch and vegas, I would assume fairly similar? Also - what wind conditions are you going out in? If your are 95kg and it gets to 20knots Id say a 12 would be ok?

Torch , Vegas or Fuel these are best three C kites on the market you cannot go wrong with either, I just recently bought a Torch and realised how much I missed riding a C kite, it feels like I just traded my Volvo in for a Ferrari!!!

Danza, my exact words when I upgraded to torches!

Hi Kuzi
I ride the Torch but have also used the 2013 Vagas, they are both excellent kites, but as a comparison I recon the Vagas felt a bit like a hybrid in some ways, maybe its because I was not as used to the Vagas, but I felt it did wander around a bit without so much feedback. Both really good unhooked, the pop is excellent on both kites, but I could get more slack on the torch, sometimes too much as the torch can stall in light winds if the lines go too slack. Loops are more vicious on the torch. I think the torch has slightly more on the bottom end too. I cant comment on the amount of depower on the Vagas as I didn't depower it, but it did go upwind well.
Not that it should make any difference to your kite choice but the leash is way better on the North, my Naish leash stretched and broke the elastic after a week , so I still use a North one from 2 years ago.
Hope this helps and Im sure which ever kite you get you will enjoy

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juicerider said...
Hi Kuzi
I ride the Torch but have also used the 2013 Vagas, they are both excellent kites, but as a comparison I recon the Vagas felt a bit like a hybrid in some ways,

Fair enough opinion but just need to make sure you set the Vegas up on the wakestyle setting. Certainly thats made a big difference in previous years (havent ridden the 2013). Freeride setting will probably be more like a hybrid.

Cheers guys ! !

Sounds like I cant go wrong either way. any tips on relaunching? Im used to the Delta shapes so I imagine I'll struggle a bit especially after learning tricks and crashing them all the time

Thanks Heaps ! ! !

They relaunch just by pulling on one steering line.

Gone are the days of having to pull both front lines, swim forward really quickly than out to the side to relaunch your C kite!

Its a piece of piss these days

The torch does not re-launch (always) by just pulling the steering line. In certain conditions, lightish wind or chop it does require the 5th line. Still very easy to re-launch.
I only flew the vegas a couple of time (2012 and 2013) but have owned torches for the last 2 years. Maybe this helps to make your decision (can't really go wrong anyways – would be happy with any of the kites).
The Vegas is not as aggressive as the torch in the freeride setting and more forgiving. The new torch bar (2012-2013) makes the kite a bit less forgiving as the throw is a lot shorter (compared to vegas or bandit). The vegas loops tighter in the larger sizes but has less power. I had the feeling that the torch is a bit more stable in the air. Sizes are comparable 12m torch = 12m vegas =11m bandit.

If you are looking for a10-12m size kite and if you want to focus on wakestyle I would go the torch. If learning kite loops is your main goal than I'd get the vegas.
As all the other guys said: No matter how you choose, in the worst case you end up with a really good kite.

So does torch have a different settings (freeride/wake etc?) like the Vegas does?

Also, I'd expect a similar resale value for both? I imagine that they not as popular kites so the resale would be rather average ?

Qzi

Rode the new 11m Vegas the other day back to back with my 2012 11m fuel, nice kite to fly lighter bar pressure and certainly quicker than the fuel, that said I wouldn't trade the fuel.

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iRideWainman said...
my 2012 11m fuel

Think you should change your login!

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Chris_M said...
Im 100kg, the B3 has heeeeps more power than the vegas (if that's the comparison you are after?).

As far as power between torch and vegas, I would assume fairly similar? Also - what wind conditions are you going out in? If your are 95kg and it gets to 20knots Id say a 12 would be ok?

nah dude, the vegas is alot more suited to hooked in riding, its not really a c-kite, more of a hybrid c. the torch is a full c-kite, more similar to a fuel or a hadlow.

I would say the vegas is in between a torch and a bandit.

@Kuzi, if you are choosing between the 2, the torch is less forgiving, more power in turns and bigger pop/slack line combination. the vegas is softer, less punishing, but also less pop and a lot less slack. Id say if you want a rush, go the torch, you wont regret it!

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ewan kite said...
its not really a c-kite, more of a hybrid

Glad you thought so too
I was worried it was just me

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suimike said...
The torch does not re-launch (always) by just pulling the steering line. In certain conditions, lightish wind or chop it does require the 5th line. Still very easy to re-launch.
I only flew the vegas a couple of time (2012 and 2013) but have owned torches for the last 2 years. Maybe this helps to make your decision (can't really go wrong anyways – would be happy with any of the kites).
The Vegas is not as aggressive as the torch in the freeride setting and more forgiving. The new torch bar (2012-2013) makes the kite a bit less forgiving as the throw is a lot shorter (compared to vegas or bandit). The vegas loops tighter in the larger sizes but has less power. I had the feeling that the torch is a bit more stable in the air. Sizes are comparable 12m torch = 12m vegas =11m bandit.

If you are looking for a10-12m size kite and if you want to focus on wakestyle I would go the torch. If learning kite loops is your main goal than I'd get the vegas.
As all the other guys said: No matter how you choose, in the worst case you end up with a really good kite.

Which one has the more bar pressure between the Torch and Vegas 2013 (for pulling the bar to the CL and for steering) ?

after trying both the Torch IMO is the better kite, the vegas feels soft in comparison. both a have firm bar pressure but the Torch has a little more allowing for better feedback through tricks. The Torch is one of that last true great C's left on the market!

if you are considering a Vegas you should give the Liquid Force HIFI X a run, its a great alternative and some of the Vegas riders down there have switched to it.
KSS has demo's.

Hey Guys,

Very Very much appreciate your input. I decided on the torch and gonna get one next week or so.

Size wise, I'm thinking 11m as my main kite and maybe a 9 later on if I like it. Am 95kgs and gonna ride mainly in Inverloch (Vic) so unless yu guys strongly suggest some other size, I'll get the 11 for now. I'm keeping the Bandits as well 10 and a 12m so that should cover me for the lighter winds and really gusty conditions.

IMO: 11, 9 quiver is too close together. I'm 85 kg and I have a 12m and a 8m. 12m is good for 14kn-23kn (Unhooking 14kn-20kn) and the 8m 18kn-35kn (mabe even 40+ but 35 has been the max we had since if had the new 8) (unhooking 18kn-27kn).

I'm 85kg and have 7,9 and 12m torches. I find this covers all bases, along with a 5m fuel for nukung days. If it's not windy enough for the 12m, like less than 15knots, it's not worth kiting as the bigger size torches turn like trucks.

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LiveToFly said...
.... the bigger size torches turn like trucks.

I started years back with 16m corssbow ! ! Imagine those turning cycles :)

Ended up getting a really good deal on 2011 11m Torch. . ! ! Cant wait to get it on the water ! ! It will be my only torch purchase for the season that's why I went with the 11m.

THANKS EVERYONE ! ! ! ! !