Rider: 90-95 kgs,Level (intermediate)
Style: Surf, Wake, Freestyle
Weather: 12 - 35 knots

Hey guys,

I know this is probably looking for trouble but im hoping to get some constructive feedback from guys riding these kites not start a brand war.

I have been riding f-one bandits for 4 years now 1, 2 , 3 and 4 and I am now thinking about a change. The 4s have been awesome but im trying to get into kiteloops but have found that the b4s loop v wide , slowly and powerfully compared to others …. Ive been spanked a few times because they aren't getting round fast enough so starting to think its time for a change. I have also struggled to find the right tuning on the 9 and 7 m …. I fly the 12 on the 2nd middle knot and factory setting on the sides but get way too much slack on the back lines if I use that setting on the smaller kites.

Things I love about the Bandits
- Wind range
- Ability to handle gusts
- Boosts and hang time

Things I don't like
- Smaller sizes tuning issues and twitchiness
- Ability to loop
- The bar is rubbish compared to competition
- Safety system

My initial thoughts are to go with north vegas' as from what ive seen and read they are pretty smooth , loop nicely and will be good for unhooked progression. In saying this I am completely open to suggestions ….. Unfortunately we don't have many dealers of different brands so cant really demo stuff ….. Obviously I will check out the b5s but will also look at the torch , park , rpm , c4 and any others that you guys can suggest.

Also im 90 kgs and travel a fair bit so need 3 kties to cover most conditions. Quiver suggestions would be great .

Thanks in advance for your help

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Dragonpig said...

Rider: 90-95 kgs,Level (intermediate)
Style: Surf, Wake, Freestyle
Weather: 12 - 35 knots

Hey guys,

I know this is probably looking for trouble but im hoping to get some constructive feedback from guys riding these kites not start a brand war.

I have been riding f-one bandits for 4 years now 1, 2 , 3 and 4 and I am now thinking about a change. The 4s have been awesome but im trying to get into kiteloops but have found that the b4s loop v wide , slowly and powerfully compared to others …. Ive been spanked a few times because they aren't getting round fast enough so starting to think its time for a change. I have also struggled to find the right tuning on the 9 and 7 m …. I fly the 12 on the 2nd middle knot and factory setting on the sides but get way too much slack on the back lines if I use that setting on the smaller kites.

Things I love about the Bandits
- Wind range
- Ability to handle gusts
- Boosts and hang time

Things I don't like
- Smaller sizes tuning issues and twitchiness
- Ability to loop
- The bar is rubbish compared to competition
- Safety system

My initial thoughts are to go with north vegas' as from what ive seen and read they are pretty smooth , loop nicely and will be good for unhooked progression. In saying this I am completely open to suggestions ….. Unfortunately we don't have many dealers of different brands so cant really demo stuff ….. Obviously I will check out the b5s but will also look at the torch , park , rpm , c4 and any others that you guys can suggest.

Also im 90 kgs and travel a fair bit so need 3 kties to cover most conditions. Quiver suggestions would be great .

Thanks in advance for your help

Ozone C4 13/10/7 will cover everything you will want to kite, grab a demo, good deals on 2011 kites going on now too.

Yes, C4. Try the 9m in 20-30knots. Oh Yeah! WOOOOOOO! BOOOOOOOOST!

The Vegas could be a good option although at your weight you might have to re-assess the sizes when compared to your Bandits. The D2 cloth should mean it lasts a little longer than most kites. Don't worry about no bridle as it will easily have the top end of the others.

The Torch is a great kite but if your after softer loops it probably isn't what your after. Jumps bigger than the Bandit though and less tune sensitive when unhooked. Definitely the most pop of the kites you mentioned and more line slack for passes etc.

The new 2012 Park seems to have all your bases covered and the new model jumps extremely well also. Bonus of switching to the 20m lines for surf. Very big wind range also. Certainly one of the best bridled kites for unhooking.

I found the B4 quite different in each size and seemed to like the bigger sizes more than the small ones. If I couldn't find a tuning position I liked I just added another intermediate knot. For the 9m and smaller the timing was easier if I added 2-4m extensions.

No experience on the B5 yet but hopefully soon.

The new Hadlow looks interesting but Flexi build quality has dropped considerably in the last couple of years.

Mutiny P-Series could be an option but only one session on it so far in super gusty choppy conditions so can't make too many comments.

+1 for the Park ,awesome kite tons of range for 2012 i'd go for 8,11 and 14 will cover you all the way to 40knots no prob,was out the other day on the 8m set on the soft setting in winds gusting to 42 knots had no probs,(95 kg) dont think i need a 6.

2012 Naish park or the 2012 Fluid EGO both are great kites and one is more well known than the other!

Forget the RPM above a 10m. They have average low-end, and seeing that a 12m will be your default size for your weight, this will be some mighty slow kiteloops. Perhaps your higher wind kite could be a 9m RPM? Would be pretty sick from 20-25 knots and up (depending on board size).

I weigh 85kg and I have a 10m and an 8m 2011 RPMs, which cover me from 17-25ish and 25-35+ knots respectively. Definitely have to say I would ride the 8m every day of the week (given ideal wind conditions) as it out-boosts, out-loops and out-turns the 10m hands down. The slingshot comp-stick is not the most forgiving bar on the old mitts, but it makes up for it by having just the right amount of bar pressure, and a very clean safety system, and you can relaunch your kite backwards just like a Fuel if the wind drops out.

I guess most of these attributes can be expected of most smaller kites, right? Anyway there's nothing wrong mixing and matching your quiver do get the most of your kites, there's no real reason why you need to have all Slingshot or all Naish etc when you can have the right kite for the right conditions/riding style.

Ok cool thanks for your help guys...... i am doing a load of research of the c4s now as this looks like it might be the way for me to go . New Parks sound good but there are no naish dealers around me.

Anyone got any info on the changes that are going to be made to the 2012 c4 ?

Thanks again for the help!

Hey Dragonpig,
Not sure where you are in WA but I'm based in Gero and would happily get some Naish Park's to you. Give me a call.

+++1

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wishy said...

Yes, C4. Try the 9m in 20-30knots. Oh Yeah! WOOOOOOO! BOOOOOOOOST!

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Dragonpig said...

Ok cool thanks for your help guys...... i am doing a load of research of the c4s now as this looks like it might be the way for me to go . New Parks sound good but there are no naish dealers around me.

Anyone got any info on the changes that are going to be made to the 2012 c4 ?

Thanks again for the help!

Where you from mate you would most likely benefit from trying a few kites if you haven't actually tried some of the mentioned kites. You can do all the research in the world but there is nothing like getting to try some different kites to understand what is hidden amongst the hype

Yeah mate i know.... i actually live in Hong Kong so tough for me to demo stuff and this forum has been the most helpful for me over the year

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Dragonpig said...

Yeah mate i know.... i actually live in Hong Kong so tough for me to demo stuff and this forum has been the most helpful for me over the year

Jeez thats a hard one maybe you could go on a kiting holiday and try a few. Do you kite much in Hong Kong? I would have thought a big city like Hong Kong would at least have a kite shop but good luck anyway.

Yup loads of kite "shops" but we dont get naish , north or ozone out here. Naish min order is too big for the guys here , ozone gets made in vietnam and north i sri lanka so they cant compete with all the other brands prices that get made just over the boarder

Yeh and they would be the three brands i would be trying out to...and core.

I hear the B5 loops like a machine, but if your not happy with the bar system perhaps it's time for a change the C4 bar is great the only thing is I wish they would change is the safety something like a mix between the BWS and LF system would make me swap my quiver to ozone..............

Personally I think the b4 is one of the best looping kites getting around.. i've had full "C" (fuels etc.) before and they are a lot slower around but abit less initial pull...

Like you said check out the b5.. Lighter = faster loops.



Are you using the 12m bar on the small kites?? If so there's is your turning issue.. I've changed around the lines etc to try and make the big bar work for the smaller size and it just doesn't... right bar for the right size ... awesome kites

mate. your not far from vientam. Home of the ozone factory. About time your had a short holiday in Mui Ne. i'm sure your'd get hell deals from the ozone guys there. same country as they build em.... no freight charges......

Hi mate done some of the biggest boosts and kiteloops on my 12m b4. If your using the bigger bar which 12m comes with you would find that you come down 1 knot one main centre line as not to oversheet the kite, i seem to do this every year on bigger sizes. If you tried to use same bar on smaller kites you would have a tuning issue. The small b4's came pretty sweet out of the box on small bar or could maybe power up a little in lighter winds. So if you used same bar would let all way out again on centre line. 12 works best for looping on big/ standard bar. B5's look good , also wouldn't mind trying the Park

i think the 2011 switchblade with a pro kit is great. it has a great wind range i use a 8m from anything for 15 knots - 23 knots and im only a small bloke. this kite would cover your needs of riding because it is a pure wake style / freestyle kite. it is very good for boosting and i can do kite loops on it. its depower is great. it has 2 settings on it. "A" is for more depower travel but it takes more of a impulse to turn it and "B" is for more bar pressure less depower travel and faster turning.

i think the 2011 switchblade with a pro kit is great. it has a great wind range i use a 8m from anything for 15 knots - 23 knots and im only a small bloke. this kite would cover your needs of riding because it is a pure wake style / freestyle kite. it is very good for boosting and i can do kite loops on it. its depower is great. it has 2 settings on it. "A" is for more depower travel but it takes more of a impulse to turn it and "B" is for more bar pressure less depower travel and faster turning.

That Bandit 5 Vid is SICK ...

Try some of the kites on your list, myself loop kites all the time loved the b4 but it did pull hard (but i had big bar on 11 not 12 ) .Have only tried the b5 for 1 session so far and it felt good but wont give feed back on it yet. If your after faster loops the RPM , VEAGAS or Park all loop quick and havnt found the 12 any slower than the 10 for the RPM.
Have fun George

Cool thanks for all the help guys. I think i'll prob end up with C4s but need to demo them so will prob head down to mui ne in the next few months. Im hopeing the 2012s have a slightly better low end so i can actually ride the 13 in the rubbish we get up here.

c4 will be perfect for you. i ride freestyle and kiteloop and an 11m does the job fine!

Nah i recon the switch blade with a pro kit because you like wake and this is a pure wake kite. and it the toughest kite around

really... maybe your not committing hard enough to the loop... i was getting my 12m b4 around happily the other night in 16knots and ive only just started looping myself... felt comfortable enough to go for some backroll loops... im 95kgs and i actually seldom ride the 12 i tend to spend nearly all my time on a 9m from 20knots-45knots..

i also just spent time in morocco riding the new north gear generally in gusty cross shore 30-45knots in essaouira the vegas was great and good fun i still prefer my b4 but the north bar was very hard on the hands after 2 days mt hands were a mess something i dont get from the b4 bar,.... had a look at the park looks nice an flew well didnt get a shot though

nah i loop all the time mate on my five and my eight