I'm in the market for a new strapless surfboard.

Im 95kg and like waveriding with my current board being the mitu pro 2014 model 5'10. Great board, I love the camel deck and it surfs well to but it doesnt really get planing for me at my weight until >16 knots as it's fairly thin and heavy and loses a bit too much power in mushy waves. My biggest kite is a 12m

So Im looking for a surfboard that surfs well in half decent waves but will get a heavier rider planing sub 16 knots and goes upwind well.

From reading around recent posts sounds like the FireWire Vader or Vanguard could be a good option or there's the north nugget or similar lite wind surfboards from cabrihna and Naish

thanks in advance

Following this with interest as I'm in the exact same boat.

I'm almost tempted to pick up a cheap standard construction Firewire sweet potato. Seem to be able to pick one up for around $300-$400. Purely for cruising around on so I figure it shouldn't cop that much of a beating.

I have the 2015 sligshoot celerite 5.11 . I am happy because u can use a smaller kite and hold the edge to go upwind. Also consider to ask your local shaper for you own surfboard

I love my nugget! I've got the 2014 5'5 which looks pretty similar to the sweet potato ( it is before the new square nose ones) I haven't really used it in "decent" surf as i am most often in perths crappy little beach breaks, the low end is really good and it is still pretty controllable at its higher end, a lot of fun for doing hacks and sliding the fins out also is really nice for strapless airs

At 95kg and wanting to get going on a 12m in sub 16 knots, I think a 5'5 Nugget or similar would be better than a Vanguard or Vader.

I,m 75 kg & ride my 2015 5'2 Nugget if its 10-15 knots on a 12m kite (80% of the time here on the sunny coast) - also have a Vader for the windier days. The Nuggets a fun board, especially if you need to stay upwind.....once you get it dialled hou can through them around pretty good as well.

I had a Vanguard, similar low end to the Vader.

Select to expand quote

toppleover said..
I think a 5'5 Nugget or similar would be better than a Vanguard or Vader.

Agree.

Otherwise browse gumtree for short/wide/fish/egg surfboards and try a couple of different shapes.

Whatever you get, you will want a minimum of 20 inches of width with a minimal rocker.

I am 100kg and the old and new nuggets are both great boards. I can ride them from 12 knots up to 30 knots without any dramas.

For sub 12, I pull out a 23 wide. 6'2" fish style surfboard or skim board.

Thanks for the advice - Sounds like the Vader or vanguard might not be much better than what i already have.

I've used my Hayden shapes Shred sled 6'2" which has heaps of volume (34 litres) a few times and it goes great on the waves but it just doesn't plane well at all and feels like the tail is dragging / sinking (it has a thruster swept in tail) - So it obviously the width you need and a wide board continuing into the tail as well as up front.

Nugget or sweat potatoe sound like they could be the go. Hadn't looked at the Celeritas but the 5'11 looks like a really good lightwind board and also looks like it will surf great too! too many decisions....

Has anyone ridden the Naish mutant or Cabrihna Secret Weapon to throw 2 more options in the mix???

Hi Nitrous,

My vote is a 5'6" Vanguard all the way for the 100kg+ rider. I'm 104 kg and I have ridden that board with no bigger than a 10m Dice on 22m lines for the past 2 years.

Had a Nuggett - not enough rocker for the surf. Tried the 5,10" Mitu - good board, awesome deckpad, but the vanguard is way better for planing, speed, upwind and anything up to say 4 ft for a bigger pilot. With hollow swell you need to be careful not to bury the nose of the vanguard on takeoff not to mention that the wind is usually howling and you need to slow it down to really drive your turns. The Vanguard is part of my 2 board quiver and you have to accept its limitations when the wind howls and/or the swell gets bigger. That's when you will go for a traditional 6 - 6'2" with a decent set of fins.

My kiting crew who are under 80kg tried the 5'4" vanguard but preferred it's cousin the Nano which demonstrates that physics changes for the bigger rider. The other 'big guy' in our kiting crew loves his 5'6" vanguard and, like me, wouldn't be without it. Was also at Mokes last year and was surprised that there was a lot of vanguards on the water but my American host wasn't surprised that I rocked up with one.

My advice is to try a vanguard over 2-3 sessions to get a feel for the board as it takes a little time to work out how it works and its sensitivity to foot placement. When you have worked out that they are worth the $ and you want one, spend the money and kit it up with some JC1 blackstix fins and a Mitu deck pad.

Hope this helps.

Do yourself a favour and try out a FireWire 6.0 Almond butter. Amazing board, timber tech deck, lightweight, squish tail, plains like a dream, and turns like a beast.

see if you can demo one somewhere... Guaranteed you'll buy it.

www.kitepower.com.au/collections/kitesurfing/SPGeneral

Sweet potato

What would the chances of KP getting an almond butter 6.0 in? Cause I would demo it every weekend (too poor to buy it)

Haha there's no Almond Butter kite yet but I think TT would be plenty strong for kiting. I'll take my Spitfire out for a kite and see how she goes

A quick update on what I got and how its going:

i ended up up getting the FireWire Vader 5'5" - I was going to get the Vanguard but my local shop was all out and I couldn't wait the 4 weeks it was going to take to get one in stock

first session on the Vader on Wednesday with what turned out to be some fairly good wind in the 15-18 knot range, cross shore and 3 foot swell. Rode the board as a quad for the first session. The first thing I noticed was just how fast the board was across the water and how quickly the board got up to speed so apparent wind was easily generated. The board really did feel like it was gliding across the water surface and I surprised at how little it was affected by chop and it felt like it bogged or pushed water far less than what I am used to in these winds with my other boards. The board speed maintained really nicely during lulls in the wind. All this meant great upwind ability - I've previously had to work hard upwind wheras with the Vader I was just able to pick a line and plough up wind while relaxing ready to hit the next wave.

On the wave the board felt great with sharp snappy turns. The speed of the board made me feel like I was 'stalling' less than I normally do during more drawn out back hand turns so less need to work the kite. And when unpowered the board as expected felt just like a regular short board - which is exactly what I wanted. I did bury the nose a few times coming off the top on steeper waves but overall it felt great. After using the camel deck I did have some sore heals after my 3 hour session but I guess I'll get used to this.

im looking forward to see how the board goes sub 15knots but I certainly feel that the ease with which it gains and maintains speed will make those lighter days a lot more fun. Can't wait to pair it up with a 14m core section or pivot to push those wave riding days down to 12 knots. Thanks Elliot I'm very happy.

would recommend this board to any strapless rider looking for a versatile and fun board.

I am really interested as to how it goes in lighter winds.

At your weight of 95kg that board has 28.8L, that's a 'guild factor' of 0.30 - not much volume for your weight! Conventional wisdom says better for high performance, rather than light wind.

However these boards (modern planing hulls) are completely different to traditional surfboard shapes (displacement hulls). So conventional wisdom could be turned on it's head.

Let us know!

Also - Elliot maybe you could let us know...

If the board does indeed go well in sub-15 knots, how is it supposed to go well as HP in say 25-35 knots? In particular for us light-weights. The smallest Vader is 22.9L and I could paddle surf that!

Although I do have my Reo 4m now

volume is fairly irrelevant to low end, unless you're stalling both the board and kite at the same time, which is a technique issue - when board speed drops you should be doing everything to increase kite speed.

my shinnster goes just fine in light wind, and it has maybe 4litres of volume. different ride qualities on the wave to be sure, but that's a matter of personal taste for what you want from marginal sessions. for me, I'll never ride a stiff high volume light wind board again.

Perhaps what you mean is bottom contour, rocker and shape are more relevant than volume. In a surfboard volume matters, particularly when relying on some wave power.

Select to expand quote

NitrousOxide said..
A quick update on what I got and how its going:

i ended up up getting the FireWire Vader 5'5" - I was going to get the Vanguard but my local shop was all out and I couldn't wait the 4 weeks it was going to take to get one in stock

first session on the Vader on Wednesday with what turned out to be some fairly good wind in the 15-18 knot range, cross shore and 3 foot swell. Rode the board as a quad for the first session. The first thing I noticed was just how fast the board was across the water and how quickly the board got up to speed so apparent wind was easily generated. The board really did feel like it was gliding across the water surface and I surprised at how little it was affected by chop and it felt like it bogged or pushed water far less than what I am used to in these winds with my other boards. The board speed maintained really nicely during lulls in the wind. All this meant great upwind ability - I've previously had to work hard upwind wheras with the Vader I was just able to pick a line and plough up wind while relaxing ready to hit the next wave.

On the wave the board felt great with sharp snappy turns. The speed of the board made me feel like I was 'stalling' less than I normally do during more drawn out back hand turns so less need to work the kite. And when unpowered the board as expected felt just like a regular short board - which is exactly what I wanted. I did bury the nose a few times coming off the top on steeper waves but overall it felt great. After using the camel deck I did have some sore heals after my 3 hour session but I guess I'll get used to this.

im looking forward to see how the board goes sub 15knots but I certainly feel that the ease with which it gains and maintains speed will make those lighter days a lot more fun. Can't wait to pair it up with a 14m core section or pivot to push those wave riding days down to 12 knots. Thanks Elliot I'm very happy.

would recommend this board to any strapless rider looking for a versatile and fun board.

sounds good Vader shape I liked more than the vanguard.
is it kite construction?
i see on Firewire site Vader will be released in kite brd construction. If you have then it must be one of the first.
will you paddle surf it.

Select to expand quote

NitrousOxide said...
A quick update on what I got and how its going:

i ended up up getting the FireWire Vader 5'5" - I was going to get the Vanguard but my local shop was all out and I couldn't wait the 4 weeks it was going to take to get one in stock

first session on the Vader on Wednesday with what turned out to be some fairly good wind in the 15-18 knot range, cross shore and 3 foot swell. Rode the board as a quad for the first session. The first thing I noticed was just how fast the board was across the water and how quickly the board got up to speed so apparent wind was easily generated. The board really did feel like it was gliding across the water surface and I surprised at how little it was affected by chop and it felt like it bogged or pushed water far less than what I am used to in these winds with my other boards. The board speed maintained really nicely during lulls in the wind. All this meant great upwind ability - I've previously had to work hard upwind wheras with the Vader I was just able to pick a line and plough up wind while relaxing ready to hit the next wave.

On the wave the board felt great with sharp snappy turns. The speed of the board made me feel like I was 'stalling' less than I normally do during more drawn out back hand turns so less need to work the kite. And when unpowered the board as expected felt just like a regular short board - which is exactly what I wanted. I did bury the nose a few times coming off the top on steeper waves but overall it felt great. After using the camel deck I did have some sore heals after my 3 hour session but I guess I'll get used to this.

im looking forward to see how the board goes sub 15knots but I certainly feel that the ease with which it gains and maintains speed will make those lighter days a lot more fun. Can't wait to pair it up with a 14m core section or pivot to push those wave riding days down to 12 knots. Thanks Elliot I'm very happy.

would recommend this board to any strapless rider looking for a versatile and fun board.

Interesting read...

I'm in the same position, similar weight too.
I was set on the 5'6 vanguard, but yeah as you mentioned they are out of stock. Was that kitepower that told you 4 weeks for the vanguard?

Apparently the vanguard goes upwind better than the vader. But seems your stoked on the vader. Maybe I'll go that now...
I'm just a bit sceptical on buying a 5'5 board, just seems to small... But they say it isnt...

So, apart from the wait time, what was your thought process in going the vader insted of the van?

I can't see any reason to pick a VG over a Vader (unless your a beguinner) - put a set of quads in and the Vader screams upwind.

Hopefully the Evo will be released in kite construction soon.

I have little intention of paddling the Vader as my usual paddle volume is more like 35 litres so I would struggle for sure to get into a wave but if I could get into the wave I think it would go great. The lower volume certainly didn't matter while kiting as the board felt like it had "lift" - I guess like a boat lifts out of the water and plane on its hull when it hits a certain speed. Once up and planing it felt very very efficient like you werent needing to put any force through your legs to edge upwind

yes I got it from kite power - they said roughly four weeks for the Vanguard But maybe longer. They had a 5'6" which they had already sold which they let me look at side by side with the Vader which was useful. The rails on the Vanguard are really straight so I reckon it could potentially go upwind even better, although Elliot who rode the Vader and Alex the vanguard didn't seem to think there wasn't that much in it. The slightly more conventional outline of the Vader I reckon certainly makes it surf more like a conventional board on the wave. Michael at FireWire also reckoned the Vanguard had slightly better light wind performance.

I did try try in 10-12 knots (just to see if I could) and this is where the volume did become an issue for me as I just couldn't get going quick enough on my 12m kept on sinking down in lulls or after negotiating a wave. I reckon from 14 knots will be the go

Select to expand quote

toppleover said..
I can't see any reason to pick a VG over a Vader (unless your a beguinner) - put a set of quads in and the Vader screams upwind.

Hopefully the Evo will be released in kite construction soon.

Maybe I should go the vader

Select to expand quote

NitrousOxide said..
I have little intention of paddling the Vader as my usual paddle volume is more like 35 litres so I would struggle for sure to get into a wave but if I could get into the wave I think it would go great. The lower volume certainly didn't matter while kiting as the board felt like it had "lift" - I guess like a boat lifts out of the water and plane on its hull when it hits a certain speed. Once up and planing it felt very very efficient like you werent needing to put any force through your legs to edge upwind

yes I got it from kite power - they said roughly four weeks for the Vanguard But maybe longer. They had a 5'6" which they had already sold which they let me look at side by side with the Vader which was useful. The rails on the Vanguard are really straight so I reckon it could potentially go upwind even better, although Elliot who rode the Vader and Alex the vanguard didn't seem to think there wasn't that much in it. The slightly more conventional outline of the Vader I reckon certainly makes it surf more like a conventional board on the wave. Michael at FireWire also reckoned the Vanguard had slightly better light wind performance.

I did try try in 10-12 knots (just to see if I could) and this is where the volume did become an issue for me as I just couldn't get going quick enough on my 12m kept on sinking down in lulls or after negotiating a wave. I reckon from 14 knots will be the go

Cheers!

Some good insight. Thanks

Another option out there is the airush cypher, I had a go on one of these a few days back. It is a nice mix between a vanguard style square ended board and a normal board, the nose is cut off shovel style and the tail is more normal surf style with fairly parallel rails in the middle. It went upwind really well, had a lot of lift and carry through turns and flat spots and was nice and snappy in the turns. The one I had a go on was the 5'6" x 20" which at my weight isn't a true light wind board but for someone smaller it would be. Good low end but still very good control

Firewire Evo 5'7 x 20 3/8 and 33.9L


Have been riding this and am very impressed, don't use it to surf, just kite.
It has a good amount of volume and I could probably ride an even shorter one after a few rides on this.
My preference is a little volume and not riding powered on the wave.
I wanted a shorter board to fit in the back of my ute and I only have a small ute and this just fits.
Found it a little skatey at first and the stub nose took some getting use to, compared to my 6'1 surfboard.
After a couple of sessions, am loving it, faster board speed, better on the wave, definitely a little more snappy turning and trucks upwind compared to my usual ride.
Is not a kite specific board, but am not worried, picked it up cheap and deck compressions are a formality on kite boards for me.
Just need a few more sessions on it now, a little more wind and swell would be awesome

Nice one ^^^^^

Has anyone kited with both the Vader & EVO & care to share their thoughts ?

Nice Evo. I wouldn't recommend anyone who rides big waves or does any airs at all to ride the Firewire LFT construction as you absolutely will snap it. It uses a high density foam stringer and that is it not parabolic paulownia rails etc and it has less glass. A good mate of mine rode LFT for a bit and liked it but snapped a few of them (he doesn't pay for his boards though). He's now back on kite construction.

Drury etc. howabout the FST (not kite FST) construction, and laminate both on top and bottom side long strips of carbon, would that hold? I want the light wind board to be as light as possible and kite construction is quite heavy especially with the bigger like 5'5 boards.

Apologies the rails are balsa not paulownia.


I reckon you could ride normal FST but you'd need to reinforce the deck I think. I have a mate that does but he glassed a layer of carbon on to the top. Seems to work great though. He does ride in heavier winds though. I'll take my Hashtag FST out and let you know how it goes I'm sure it would be fine if you don't do airs.

Ive gone 6'1" x 19" x 2.5" with a smidge less tail rocker, swidge wider tail, fins a smidge more forward and medium concave. Pu and fcsii reactor fins. I used it twice and it goes upwind really well. Pity i was overpowered both times. So still need to check the light wind operation.