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Originally posted by Saffer

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Originally posted by sink cut

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This kite does not turn as fast as the rebel

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Was able to test the bottom end against the new Rebel 12, and the 11m kite has at least the same if not better bottom end with considerable better turning speeds than the Rebel

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I'd love to know which one really turns faster - and with less bar input.

sc

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I'm willing to put money on the rebel winning by a fair margin. People fail to remember that all the bridle kites have a delayed response so even if they turn as fast, their is still a small delay until they start turning vs 5th line kites.

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...........I thought this was reviews for the REVOLVER ???

The Revolver Kite has 3 setups, ( 2:1, 1:1a, 1:1b), if you go for 1:1 mode on the kite and bar there are no plulleys and there is no delay response on turning, the kite has a direct feel and a very fast flying profile.

The 11m turned quicker in the 1:1 mode than the Rebel 12, but why not go test the kite for yourself on the correct setups and decide.

cheers

Drew

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...........I thought this was reviews for the REVOLVER ???

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Why so defensive? I was responding to a previous comment.

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Originally posted by Saffer

I'm willing to put money on the rebel winning by a fair margin. People fail to remember that all the bridle kites have a delayed response so even if they turn as fast, their is still a small delay until they start turning vs 5th line kites.

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I'm willing to put money on you being a North kite rider?

Both styles of kites experience a short delay, because both styles of kites need some degree of distortion of the leading edge of the kite (twist) in order to initiate a turn.
The degree between the two styles is fractional, as in it makes a bees d1ck of difference!!.
The human brain is an amazing thing, it has the ability to to learn and adapt, muscle memory, etc.

However the Revolver is a kite designed specifically for wave riding, and as venomguy says it performs extremely well and better than the Rebel 08, which he says he has flown a lot.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

How much money you want to put on it Steve?

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Originally posted by Saffer

How much money you want to put on it Steve?

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The comment was only meant in jest, I just found it strange that you would bet on the North, with such conviction. I have not seen you post that you have ridden both kites?

Its quite possible that some people will say the Rebble turns faster, but from watching Em ride down here and at Kurnell I would say the 12's will be close, but the Rebble seems to turn tighter, and seems to have less power in the turn. Its a completely different kite. Some will like it in waves, some will not, but I reckon most real wave riders will love the Revolver in surf.

Anyway, I have now ridden the Revolver 11M, and it is a sweet kite, probably the most well balanced and stable hybrid LEI I have flown.
It turns fast enough, to feel like I could put it anywhere I needed to if I was riding waves, the style of turn is a tight sweep turn - as in it turns on a point close to its tip.

I flew it in 1:1 A and 1:1 AB, yep this kite actually has 3 x 1:1 settings.!!

In 1:1 A, it is light on the bar with good rear line feel, there is only one pulley on the rear lines in this config, and none on the front, so the feel is very direct. I am sure the kite could be rigged without a pulley at all, by someone with reasonable rope skills!!

In 1:1 AB, it was easy to initiate some back stall, which might be a feature that some wave riders would like to have? It was only slightly lighter on the bar. I did not ride it in this mode for long enough though as the wind was dropping.

I rode towards the kite full tilt several times, and it just floats and drifts back downwind, when I tensioned the lines again it did not suddenly power back on. It was easy to modulate the power delivery just by sheeting the bar.

I was riding on flat water, in increasing light rain, wind was approx 16/17 knots on average, with some tide assist (not much) see here for wind readings. www.bom.gov.au/products/IDN60901/IDN60901.94767.shtml

I was riding a 1.52x44 FLX, could ride anywhere I wanted to upind at very high angles.

I dropped the Revolver in the water in a lull and it was easy to relaunch from nose down in quite light winds. I did reach up and grab the overide and hold it then just pulled on one rear leader, kite went to the edge and lifted off easily, even though it was raining and the kite was wet and heavy.

The kite has very good lift, but not an aggressive feel like some other high lift kites (SS REV and Best Waroo 08), so its great for upwind and jumping too.

I also tested the 08 Best Waroo, back to back with the Revolver, wind dropped off so I packed it in as all my other gear was getting saturated (I had intended to test the Naish Alliance 12M and the 10 Flysurfer Speed2 as well).

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

Sorry Steve, its more generic than specific kites. I've ridden the 07 rebel, and a lot of the bow kites (i currently ride bows not 5 lines). The one generic consistency I've seen is that bow kites can turn as fast but take slightly longer to react to input in every case. Even watching the SB3 you could see a slight delay from the bar turn to the kite reaction which is not present on any of the 5th line kites i've seen. Not sure if its something to do with how a bridle effects the performance but I'd be interested to see a more formal experiment.

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But the kite you tested was set up wrong Matt??

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Yes I'm aware of this Steve.

But, the kite was re-tested using the correct setup and the conclusion was that it did not turn as well as the 12m Rebel. I didn't personally test it using this correct setup , but I can guarantee the integrity of the tester who rode them back to back.

Hey VG or other testers, can you elaborate on the bar pressure of the revolver (i have also heard the Reb08 has fairly high pressure too).

When going back upwind to get another wave i, like many other people in the waves, will often ride toe side for a reasonable distance to avoid switching feet. Riding toeside is FAR more comfortable with one hand on the bar. For me this is where bar pressure might be an issue.

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Originally posted by Saffer

Sorry Steve, its more generic than specific kites. I've ridden the 07 rebel, and a lot of the bow kites (i currently ride bows not 5 lines). The one generic consistency I've seen is that bow kites can turn as fast but take slightly longer to react to input in every case. Even watching the SB3 you could see a slight delay from the bar turn to the kite reaction which is not present on any of the 5th line kites i've seen. Not sure if its something to do with how a bridle effects the performance but I'd be interested to see a more formal experiment.

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As much as I agree about pulleys on kites giving a delay in turning and general kite feedback its also is to do with how some of the kites fly, some tend to fly more on the front lines (like the 08 rebel is said to do compared to the 07) this means more slack in the steering lines, meaning less response and feedback - but a 5th line will still have the advantage in my view to the bridled pulley kite even if it fly's more so on the front lines than the pulley bridled kite.

Does the revolver still have the one way valve on the leading edge ?

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Originally posted by sink cut

Hey VG or other testers, can you elaborate on the bar pressure of the revolver (i have also heard the Reb08 has fairly high pressure too).

When going back upwind to get another wave i, like many other people in the waves, will often ride toe side for a reasonable distance to avoid switching feet. Riding toeside is FAR more comfortable with one hand on the bar. For me this is where bar pressure might be an issue.

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The bar pressure on 1:1B was fine to ride single handed in the mid wind strength range of the kite, Top end you might want to use 1:1a setting which is lighter. Found the high end of the 11m on 1:1b mode bar pressure to be less than the same conditions flying the North Rhino (north has higher bar pressure at the top end of its wind range)

Drew

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Originally posted by cwamit
As much as I agree about pulleys on kites giving a delay in turning and general kite feedback its also is to do with how some of the kites fly, some tend to fly more on the front lines (like the 08 rebel is said to do compared to the 07) this means more slack in the steering lines, meaning less response and feedback - but a 5th line will still have the advantage in my view to the bridled pulley kite even if it fly's more so on the front lines than the pulley bridled kite.

Does the revolver still have the one way valve on the leading edge ?

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Revolver has the same large black screw in one way valve as all the Cabrinha kites. The kite comes with an adaptor attached to the kite so that any pump can be used.
The valve allows a lot more air into the kite than the smaller clear plastic valves found on most kites, and when it comes to delfating the kite it lets a lot more out too. Rubber seal needs to be kep clean.

All the modern High Depower Bow/SLE/Hybrid kites fly off their front lines, thats how they get the depower effect. The front tow point, whether it is high on the leading edge or in fronof the leading edge via a bridle, allows for the whole canopy to tilt further and give a higher degree of depower.
Take the rears off any kite and it will still fly, it just cannot be steered!

Kites vary a bit between how much rear line tension can be applied before stalling and flying backwards, and of course that is how we fly them and adjust power, with our amazing muscle memory capable brains!!

The feel between direct connection and via a pulley or no pulley bridle is better described in my opinion as tight and loose, and we can adapt to kites that have user friendly levels of either quality.

Most of the delay feel people describe comes from the wing/LE twist, and it is more pronounced on the wide span modern high depower kites, but is still within limits that we can adapt to.

Some "anti pulley/bridle" proponents, who often have a sponsorship of some sort with a direct connection kite brand talk about this delay effect as if it takes 30 seconds after the line is tensioned for the kite to turn, but in reality its less than a second in all cases, and our magic brains adapt anyway.

When a rider who has flown direct connection kites and "knows" their kite well rides another type of kite they tend to "not like it", and I think the reason is obvious based on my rant here and my observations of riders and their preferences over the years.

Its timely to quote Peter Lynn Snr here - "There are no bad kites only bad kite flyers" !! LOL's

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

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Originally posted by Kitepower Australia
Most of the delay feel people describe comes from the wing/LE twist, and it is more pronounced on the wide span modern high depower kites, but is still within limits that we can adapt to.

Some "anti pulley/bridle" proponents, who often have a sponsorship of some sort with a direct connection kite brand talk about this delay effect as if it takes 30 seconds after the line is tensioned for the kite to turn, but in reality its less than a second in all cases, and our magic brains adapt anyway.

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Agreed, but then you can't really claim it turns as fast as non-bridled kite because in reality, when taking into account the delay, it doesn't, and most people who test the two side by side would notice the difference...even half a second delay is a long time if you consider how far a kite turns in half a second.

To quote myself, "there are no perfect kites, only perfect pimps"

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Originally posted by Saffer

How much money you want to put on it Steve?

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put me in for a pile of Steve's Dosh

hey steve, forcast on the weekend is for wind down here(illawarra) -you should move your demo down!

What sizes in Revolvers do you have available for demo?

You wish!
We have an 11M that I have demoed, and another local rode last weekend in the surf at Wanda, he said it was the best kite he had used and best session he had for ages.
I may break out a 14M, if the wind is really light, we also have a 9M but it is away at Lennox.
Bar pressure is light, easy to switch and ride toeside, similar to a SB3.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

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Originally posted by sink cut

hey steve, forcast on the weekend is for wind down here(illawarra) -you should move your demo down!

What sizes in Revolvers do you have available for demo?

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I had a bit a demo on the Rebel Revolver at the same time.
Rebel turns quicker and is tighter in the turns
Revolver nice smooth depower you need much more bar input to make it turn also you always know where the Rebel is
Seven struts for a wave kite not good as the kite is heavier in the sky Rebel feels lighter
For me the Rebel hands down wins for hardcore waveriders.
To many instructions for the revolver and the different settings did not make much of a difference
Build quality Rebel although Cabrinha have improved after last years efforts
Maybe next year for the revolver
I have just ordered the rebels after being on switchbalde 2

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Originally posted by slitepower

I had a bit a demo on the Rebel Revolver at the same time.
Rebel turns quicker and is tighter in the turns
Revolver nice smooth depower you need much more bar input to make it turn also you always know where the Rebel is
Seven struts for a wave kite not good as the kite is heavier in the sky Rebel feels lighter
For me the Rebel hands down wins for hardcore waveriders.
To many instructions for the revolver and the different settings did not make much of a difference
Build quality Rebel although Cabrinha have improved after last years efforts
Maybe next year for the revolver
I have just ordered the rebels after being on switchbalde 2

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Your above statement is just pure BS " To many instructions for the revolver and the different settings did not make much of a difference"

your comments prove you have not flown the kite on the correct settings or you have some other agenda not related to the revolver kite

Drew

LOL someone has taken this personal. Thats my opinion and you should respect it like i do with yours
im not the only one that has said this in regards to the kite
maybe you have the hidden agenda are you a shop owner who is in the buyers group and its in your best interests to pimp the kite
i like cabrinha kites and have flown the two kites back to back and i like the rebel better for waves
take it easy and dont take it to heart im sure other people will prefer the revolver.
see u at the demo day steve.

Cya and

good winds

slitepower

i prefer the rebble oops sorry rebel