upgrading from switchblades and looking at faster turning lighter bar pressure kites ( 12and 9). I ride 60% twintip and 40% strapless but not a ton of waves. I like to jump do rolls and all hooked in. Any feedback would be great especially on bar pressure (which one is lightest), boosting and fun on strapless.

thx

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Rleshem said..
upgrading from switchblades and looking at faster turning lighter bar pressure kites ( 12and 9). I ride 60% twintip and 40% strapless but not a ton of waves. I like to jump do rolls and all hooked in. Any feedback would be great especially on bar pressure (which one is lightest), boosting and fun on strapless.

thx

I faced a similar conundrum recently, looking at the 3 strut all rounder kites that have the swept wingtips. Was coming off the FX and dice and before that off switchblades. Was looking at the pivot, evo, moto, bandit and nexus. Couldn't find much info on the moto and ended up finding a deal on a 7 and 9m nexus.

Very happy with the kites, although i have only managed to get a few sessions in on the 9m on a surfboard and several on the foil. Yet to have decent wind to test the 7m or the 9m with a tt, but very happy with it from the limited time so far and would recommend.

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Rleshem said..
upgrading from switchblades and looking at faster turning lighter bar pressure kites ( 12and 9). I ride 60% twintip and 40% strapless but not a ton of waves. I like to jump do rolls and all hooked in. Any feedback would be great especially on bar pressure (which one is lightest), boosting and fun on strapless.

thx

I currently have 9m Switchblade and 12m LF Solo as my lighter wind kite. Looking to change my 12 for something faster turning and more forgiving in the upper end of the wind range. Have done demo on the 12 Moto over the last few weeks both at the lower and higher end of wind range and lived this kite, light bar pressure, quick turning and huge amount of de power available. Low end not nearly as grunty as the Switchblade but definitely less bar pressure, quicker turning and a lot of fun to fly. Sits a little further back in the window and much easier to throw a quick loop or down loop on transitions. Seriously considering swapping my 9 Switchblade for a Moto, thinking the 10 Moto will have about the same bottom end as the 9m Switchblade though. Have to sort out my larger kite first before deciding on the rest of the quiver. I also did demo on 12m Pivot and 13m Juice but only had one session on each, at this stage Moto is still my preference.
PS: I'm 62kg intermediate riding mostly twin tips but recently bought a Nugget and only had 2 sessions on the surf board.
Cant comment on the Evo.

What did you think of the pivot versus the moto?

Bit unfair to make a direct comparison since I only had one session on the Pivot and wind was pretty light (around 14 knots) but had the Moto for a few weeks and experienced light winds as well as gnarly 16-18 with 23knot gusts and 12 knot holes.
In my opinion the Pivot was set up with a bar that was way too narrow for a 12m, I didn't measure it and not familiar enough with the Naish gear to know which bar it was but felt like about 40-44cm. Pivot just did not "pivot" like I expected it to.
The Moto however I flew with my overdrive bar on widest setting (56cm) and it just seemed more responsive and was a lot of fun to fly.
Once again, I stress that it's just my opinion and I would really like to try the Pivot with a wider bar and more varying conditions.
Just had a look online and I think the 12m Pivot was set up on the DT Click Bar S which is 42cm wide, explains the lack of response.

I've had switchblades and now own 11m and 9m pivots. Pivots do what they say, ie pivot on the wingtip generating very little pull through the loop which is good for strapless, boost really well and have decent float. Drift is OK for a non dedicated wave kite. They need to be flown a fair bit more than a switchblade which have tonnes of sheet in and go power. Bar pressure is less than a SB imo

Im 93kg and and my 11m would get me going in 16 knots on flatwater using a Twin tip.

Pivot

Never flown the evo, moto, or pivot.

Reading the marketing, seems like the triad is the Naish version of the evo.

looks like an unfair comparison. As I am keen to session the pivot.

it's taken me almost 20 years to forget my first inflatable kite- the 2001 Naish aero 10m. Have not flown any other Naish kite since.

Ps.
Has the radar been rebranded the moto?

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simon78 said..
Never flown the evo, moto, or pivot.

Reading the marketing, seems like the triad is the Naish version of the evo.

looks like an unfair comparison. As I am keen to session the pivot.

it's taken me almost 20 years to forget my first inflatable kite- the 2001 Naish aero 10m. Have not flown any other Naish kite since.

Ps.
Has the radar been rebranded the moto?

Radar not rebranded, Moto is a totally different kite. This was covered in another thread a while back, I've got 3.5m and 5m Radars that I used to teach my kids but my 12yo mostly flies the 7m Drifter now and hasn't touched the 5m Radar all season.

I have 2019 Duotone Evo 8 and 11 with the click bars. 98kg freeride and waves, never unhooked. Used to have Evo 8, 2013 5 strut so don't listen to any opinions on Evos unless they have tried 2018 or 19. They have completely changed. Definitely give one a try. I'm from Wellington, NZ we get mega-gusty changeable winds here. The Evo wind range is massive, great low-end and rarely use more than 1/2 depower. Gives you confidence when you would otherwise worry more about size selection. Amazing boost and hangtime and plenty quick enough looping which I need in waves here as it's always rugged cross-onshore. The Pivots certainly used to have much heavier bar-pressure than my Evos (I have 2015 Pivot 14m) but they may have lightened that up in newer models, not sure. Haven't tried Triad or Moto, from the look of them they have bigger tips than the Evo and maybe lower aspect ratio? which is a bit more like the Duotone Dice, suggests yankier loops and possibly less hangtime/low-end.

2019 Pivot 12m and down. The only weak link in this choice would [could] only be the rider.

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froghoppa said..
2019 Pivot 12m and down. The only weak link in this choice would [could] only be the rider.

at the beginning of this past season I took a Rebel and Evo( 2019 demos) and my Pivot for a spin, I went to Dutchies where I pumped all three and kited for like 4 hours switching between them. I liked the rebel the most except for the turning speed which was slower.

That day was a bit gusty and I felt ( and this is my opinion ) that the pivot was able to handle the gusts better while the Evo was all over the place when gusts came.

So If I could have all the kites I wanted I would keep my pivots and get rebels and get souls all of them :D

interesting to see the pivot get a positive mention for gusty stuff.

+1 for the rebel- massive wind range and loves gusty conditions.


Back to the opening post from Rieshem, have you considered the drifter? Same cab feel, lighter bar pressure, short depower stroke, is ok on a twin tip, ok on a surfboard and ok to unhook with on a surfboard or twin tip.

Imo The drifter has a poor low end and top end, compared to other 3+ strut lei kites. in its 4 or 5knt window it is a great kite. It is not going to boost like an edge or rebel.

i wonder if a 10m soul would cover the same wind range(12 to 30knts) as a 9 and 12m sb.

Thanks for the input. I tried the drifter - love it on a surfboard. On a twintip it actually jumps ok and it was fun to loop. I did feel like I had to keep the bar pulled in to access the power which became a little tiring. As soon as you let it out it dumps a lot of power which on a surfboard was great but on a twintip less so. I'll have to try it again. That's why I was wondering if the Moto works well on both.
I do ride in gusty conditions so gust management and smooth power is nice.

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Rleshem said..
Thanks for the input. I tried the drifter - love it on a surfboard. On a twintip it actually jumps ok and it was fun to loop. I did feel like I had to keep the bar pulled in to access the power which became a little tiring. As soon as you let it out it dumps a lot of power which on a surfboard was great but on a twintip less so. I'll have to try it again. That's why I was wondering if the Moto works well on both.
I do ride in gusty conditions so gust management and smooth power is nice.

The reason I'm doing demo's is I'm looking to replace my LF Solo 12m, low end is fantastic but when the gusts come through it pulls like a truck.
Easter Monday we had very gusty conditions and got to fly the Solo and Moto back to back: Solo I was constantly on the trim strap anywhere between all the way in just to keep my edge and all the way out to keep riding. Launched the Moto and did not have to touch the trim strap once in the same conditions, I found it really good in the gusty conditions, I recommend demo all of them back to back if you can.
Wind on the day was about 15-16 knots but SB live wind showed 13knot holes and 22knot gusts over the period I was riding.

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Gateman said..

The reason I'm doing demo's is I'm looking to replace my LF Solo 12m, low end is fantastic but when the gusts come through it pulls like a truck.
Easter Monday we had very gusty conditions and got to fly the Solo and Moto back to back: Solo I was constantly on the trim strap anywhere between all the way in just to keep my edge and all the way out to keep riding. Launched the Moto and did not have to touch the trim strap once in the same conditions, I found it really good in the gusty conditions, I recommend demo all of them back to back if you can.
Wind on the day was about 15-16 knots but SB live wind showed 13knot holes and 22knot gusts over the period I was riding.

Pretty much a standard difference between a single strut and 3 strut kite. However generally a single strut will also have more power in the bottom end. If you want a 3 strut with plenty low down I would suggest a Pivot or NEO.

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LuigiKiter said..

froghoppa said..
2019 Pivot 12m and down. The only weak link in this choice would [could] only be the rider.

at the beginning of this past season I took a Rebel and Evo( 2019 demos) and my Pivot for a spin, I went to Dutchies where I pumped all three and kited for like 4 hours switching between them. I liked the rebel the most except for the turning speed which was slower.

That day was a bit gusty and I felt ( and this is my opinion ) that the pivot was able to handle the gusts better while the Evo was all over the place when gusts came.

So If I could have all the kites I wanted I would keep my pivots and get rebels and get souls all of them :D

Great you got to try those 3 kites alongside eachother. Interesting to hear you felt the Evo was all over the place in gusts. I don't think there's many gustier places than Wellington, NZ and I find my Evos super stable. I need to have a go on a 2019 Pivot and Rebel to compare.

So I ended up getting the Pivot. Got the 12M first to see if I like it.
The kite turns fast is very intuitive and forgiving in rotational tricks - just stays in place and waits for the input.
Jumping is great with lots of hang time and smooth landings. Had the 12 in 20 mph and had a blast - the kite is really fun to fly.

Bar pressure is light for turning - very easy to turn the kite (i have it on the lightest setting)
I do feel however that in order to maintain the power I do have to pull in the bar with decent amount of force. The switchblades were much easier on that front - they maintain some power even when sheeting out where the Pivot shuts off. It is slightly fatiguing for a long session. Are others feeling that?
I am using a Cabrinha bar with equal lines (I checked the lines they are perfect)

Thanks,

I ride 11m pivot 2018 on a cabrinha bar, And have owned switchblades.

Yes the switch blade will give you more constant power, you will need to work the pivot a bit more.

I think the bar pressure is a
bit high, surprised Naish didn't address this issue in the 19/20 models.

Yep the pivot I great fun to fly, and wicked in the waves.

Thanks Sandfoot - Have you tried the smaller sizes on the Pivot - how are they on bar pressure?

Thanks Sandfoot - Have you tried the smaller sizes on the Pivot - how are they on bar pressure?

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Rleshem said..
Thanks Sandfoot - Have you tried the smaller sizes on the Pivot - how are they on bar pressure?

Hi mate.

Havnt tried the smaller pivots.

I bought a 2020 pivot 10m and the kite is awesome. Bar pressure is perfect (much better than the 12) , quick turning, great on a strapless board and boosts really well with so much control and lift.

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Rleshem said..
I bought a 2020 pivot 10m and the kite is awesome. Bar pressure is perfect (much better than the 12) , quick turning, great on a strapless board and boosts really well with so much control and lift.

Yes I love my pivots, but I find that any size after 10 feels weird.