Just wondering if anybody can't point in the direction of who stocks Ozone kites in QLD?

Cheers

HI mate,

We are dealers for OZONE in Mackay.

Let me know and Ill help you out

Thanks
Joe

Hey CQkiter,

Here is a list of Ozone Dealers in QLD. http://www.ozonekites.com.au/dealers.html

Good winds,

Cheers guys much appreciated.

Just another question in relation to the Ozone Sport II. What is there bottom end like for a 13m generally, ignoring weight, board blah blah.
A no BS opinion without attempting to pimp the kite would be appreciated.

Sorry dude, you can't ignore weight and board when talking about when a kite gets going.
For me, at 70kg, the 9 edge, 11 sport and original 13 Instinct can all get me going on a surfboard in around 11 knots.
I much prefer the 11 to the 13 at my weight. Faster, better turning etc.
I haven't flown the 2008 kites though.
But if I wanted a 13, there's an EdgeII on that popular auction website....

Hey CQKiter,

The 11m Ozone Instinct Sport II, is a great kite and has a great useable wind range. However, if you are looking for a pure bottom end kite, then there are others which may be more appropriate. All of the Instinct Range have reasonable but not amazing bottom end. I would say they are on par with the average kite in terms of power in their lower wind range. They have good middle of the range power but really perform amazingly in their mid to upper wind range.

I find it is better and cheaper to get a dedicated light wind board to extend the bottom end wind range of a good kite. A board such as the Airush Exile-L at 135 x 47 is the key to getting happening on smaller kites in lighter winds. They are a little over half the price of a kite and it is like adding 2-3 additional square metres to your kite.

The problem with kites that have amazing bottom end, is they usually have a pretty crappy upper end, or if they do have a really wide wind range like "bow" style kites, they have mushy feel, heavy bar pressure and lose real "C" kite feel and speed. Low end on a kite comes primarily from a deep draught or deep profile.

Deep draught on a kite is not conducive to higer wind speeds as the profile can't be changed when the wind increases. Angle of attack can be varied to offer some semblance of control, but this only increases the possibility to luff and invert as the rider sheets out further, and eventually leads to canopy instability especially towards the Leading Edge which is unfortunately where you need good stability in testing conditions. The higher the wind speed over the canopy, the further aft the centre of pressure moves forcing the kite to lift more towards the trailing edge than the leading edge. This creates a problem with the balance of the wing. When you see the front part of the canopy starting to vibrate or flutter, you're too overpowered for the conditions.

It is my personal preference to have kites that perform well in their upper wind ranges because thats where you need the canopy stability and solid dependable performance.

Hey, but that's just me!


Good winds,

CQKiter,

This is not about Ozones but just to add a little to Darren's comments.

Firstly, I definitely agree with the suggestion to go for the light wind board before a light wind kite. I use my 138 x 46 Cardboard a lot...magic board.

Secondly, I'd agree with Darren and defer to his experience/expertise re the deep profile required for lower winds. I disagree, however, with the statement that the profile can't be changed for different wind conditions. Although this is mostly true and I'm sure Darren was not thinking of Flysufers when he made the statement, these bridled foils do allow profile tuning/variation. They have 4 lines of connections to the canopy and, depending on the mixer type and other settings, vary the profile as the bar is powered/depowered. Also, with the simple movement of a larks head on a pig tail, the canopy can be set for a deeper or flatter profile overall. Often with my 17m Speed, a serious light wind power source, I sometimes launch with the deep profile setting and, if the breeze comes up, land (easily done solo...which is usually necessary as if I'm using that kite, no one else is kiting), move the larks head for a flatter profile, then go again. If the wind comes up more, I switch to a smaller board.

Good luck with your Ozone.

i had the edge 2 out (11m) in sub-10 knot conditions one day up here at caloundra and i was amazed that it could get me up and going. the bottom end was excellent. i was on a spleene door and weigh just 63kg, but it was hauling me upwind quite easily. wind must have been 6-9 knots at the most, the kite was barely flying and couldn't be held at zenith. required constant sining of the kite but i was amazed at its upwind ability and general grunt in the lower wind speeds. Later on the next day the wind was 22-25 knots and i hadn't even depowered the kite yet. Truly one of the biggest wind ranges in a kite ever? It was almost as good as my sonic with the movable bridle.

as for deep draught creating great bottom end, i would have to disagree. bottom end power comes from exceptional efficiency, and high projected areas. look at the flysurfer kites and the new ultra-flat designs like the Wind-X monsoonz for example. high projected area for maximum lift, thin chord sections for maximum efficiency.

It's like the difference between a stunt plane's short stubby wings for sharp and savage AOA changes at the expense of efficiency and a glider's long thin wing for optimised efficiency at low speed and glide ratios. the deeper "draught" (should really be "chord") of a kite like the bandit for example, gives reasonable projected area but is mainly there to make the kite turn well.

if you want pure light-wind performance, you are looking at a flat, high aspect kite of some description. it won't turn as well as a C-kite but at least you'll get on the water.

Neill have you bought an edge yet?

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Neill said...


as for deep draught creating great bottom end, i would have to disagree. bottom end power comes from exceptional efficiency, and high projected areas.

Hey Neil, Cord is directly related to bottom end grunt. Your argument for flat kites being more efficient is partly true, but only because you are working the hell (sining) out of the kite to create higher velocity of air movement over the canopy. A kite with thick cord will creat more lift at lower speeds without having to sine the kite, but top end will be reduced.

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Neill said...



It's like the difference between a stunt plane's short stubby wings for sharp and savage AOA changes at the expense of efficiency and a glider's long thin wing for optimised efficiency at low speed and glide ratios.

A Stunt plane has short stubby wings to increase it's roll rate. It has a thick symmetrical chord shape for reasonable lift at high angles of attack when upright and also inverted. I think you mean the cord to wing span or "aspect ratio". A better example is the cord of an army caribou airplane compared to the glider. A glider also has a reasonably thick cord, but the cord length to wingspan is massive. The wing is more efficient due to less drag from the shorter cord. BTW, a stunt airplane is much faster than a glider, having flown in both a Schwietzer S2 and a Pitts Special S2, the Pitts is way faster but has more drag hence the requirement of the engine to keep it's speed up.

Select to expand quote

Neill said...


the deeper "draught" (should really be "chord") of a kite like the bandit for example, gives reasonable projected area but is mainly there to make the kite turn well.

Sorry but you stumbled onto a topic I know a bit about. Did my apprenticeship as an airframe and engine mechanic with QANTAS and studied subsonic, supersonic and hypersonic flight in reasonable depth at TAFE. It was one of ther modules I did best in.

Good winds,

sigh

i'm not keen to type all night here, but if you would care to explain why all of the specialist light-wind kites are high-aspect, thin section flat kites that would be excellent. i would also be especially interested in how you determine that deep "draught" creates "more bottom end grunt" which should therefore mean that as aspect ratio decreases, kites should create more power for a given PA. remember that we are not talking about conventional solid wings here, we are talking about things with solid leading edges and an open airframe behind it. conventional wing section and flow theory needs to go out the door with this stuff.

Select to expand quote

Your argument for flat kites being more efficient is partly true, but only because you are working the hell (sining) out of the kite to create higher velocity of air movement over the canopy.

this is rubbish. all of the high-aspect kites like the silver arrow, monsoonz etc are really "park and ride" kites, i know because i've flown a lot of them (not the silver arrow though). you sine it a few times then it just sits there and pulls. conversely, the kites like the bandit have good low end but require you to work the kite a lot more. just speaking from personal experience.

felix: almost man. i really did like it, but there just wasn't ANY bar pressure.

Hi Neill,

Im not going to debate this with you as we appear to be debating two different things. You seem to be debating wing efficiency overall and I am speaking about pure lift in as light a wind as possible and this does come from having a greater cord thickness. The greater the cord thickness (to a point), the greater the difference between air speeds between the top and bottom surface of the airfoil. The greater difference in airflow velocity, the greater difference in air pressure.

That difference in air pressure is lift. the bigger the cord, the bigger the aount of lift at a constant given airspeed.

I agree with you in that high AR kites are more efficient, but disagree with the flatter profile. If you want pure light wind, make a kite with thick cord and high aspect, then you truly have light wind power, but you'll have a kite with about a 5 knot wind range.

Good winds,

Shoot him down Kitehard! I'm impressed
I can't help thinking Neill is a bit confused with the term 'draught'.
It's got nothing to do with aspect or the width of the wing but how fine/deep the foil is.
The 1st RAF sailboarding sails were small deep foiled sails but over the years they tended to go to flatter shapes, with increased area to make up for the reduced power.
An open foil may be less efficient but it's still a foil, there is no substitute set of rules.
COL

Hey Neil
Presevere with the light bar pressure. After a while it feels normal.
You'll love the kite once you've got a handle on it

Ok i think we are definately talking about two different things. Not a drama.

The original assertion was that "Low end on a kite comes primarily from a deep draught or deep profile." The term "low end" to me, means the ability of the kite to haul a rider around on the ocean in very light winds. I think you were using it to say "high power at low airspeed". Which does not necessarily mean the kite is going to be efficient at hauling around a 100kg person in 8 knots of wind, it just means it develops more lift at that 8 knots. You are (all else being equal) very much correct in saying that a thicker chord will develop more power. The term "draught" is a ****house one and i don't like using it. More of a laymans term anyway.

The reasoning for flat kites being better in light wind, in my mind, comes down to kite weight. The lighter the kite, the better it will turn, and the less wind it will require to sit at zenith without falling down. Therefore you make your light-wind kite as light as possible, which means cutting down on material, which means you make it super flat to utilise the greatest area of wing for vertical lift. The bloody things don't turn too well, but that's the price you pay i guess.

Yeah we were definately talking about different things.

btw the ozone was sweet. I am strongly considering buying a 9m edge II if i can sell my other kite. I reckon the 9m edge would top out around 30-35 knots for a 63kg rider? The 11m that i flew had HEAPS of top end.

Hey Neill,

Why are you getting the 9m? why not the 11m? its not as if you'll be riding in 35knots very often, and apparently the edge doesn't have that good a low end?

I'd think about getting one for high-wind duties on those days when it's consistently over 25 knots. the sonic gets fairly hairy up above 25 knots for me. it can be done, but it's not exactly comfortable. I'm still very happy with it as a one-kite quiver though.

the 11m edge 2 would be an excellent one-kite quiver as well, but i just didn't like it as much as the sonic. not as much raw power, doesn't tear you off the water as savagely in the jump. the hangtime, stability and turning of the edge were all better than the sonic, but i just couldn't get it to jump as high or leave me with that exhilaration after a big, ripping jump. it was more like a long gentle glide than a gut-wrenching yank off the water.

i really, really did like the kite though. it was just so.... comfortable? truly an excellent piece of design.

btw i found the bottom-end of the 11m to be excellent. i had a couple of sessions in extremely light wind and was very impressed with it. you can go upwind in even the most marginal conditions when you are constantly sining the kite.

neill you would probably find the sport would do the things the edge lacked in height and savagery.. edge if u want to go big with needs some nice flat water so u can lock a solid edge in to get some good speed and tension building up.. the raw grunt from the sport sends you bigger then the edge in choppy conditions koz u dont need that speed.

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Neill said...

the 11m edge 2 would be an excellent one-kite quiver as well, but i just didn't like it as much as the sonic. not as much raw power, doesn't tear you off the water as savagely in the jump. the hangtime, stability and turning of the edge were all better than the sonic, but i just couldn't get it to jump as high or leave me with that exhilaration after a big, ripping jump. it was more like a long gentle glide than a gut-wrenching yank off the water.

If your after that "gut-wrenching yank" with "raw power" so that the kite "tears" you off the water shouldn't you be looking at a C-kite like the Torch/Fuel/Vegas. Well if your after a one kite quiver then the Torch/Vegas are pretty dam good!

Nowhere near the windrange man. Not even close. The day i can use a C-kite from 12 to 30 knots may be the same day that i buy one as a one-kite quiver.

On the North Web-site it says the 12m Vegas as a wind range from 13 - 26knots not bad considering they give the rebel a wind range of 10-28 and the rhino and wind-range of 10 - 26. also if you want more top end couldn't you just get shorter lines with extensions? or get the 10m?

Yeah but north is full of crap

like that bloke they had who was supposed to be out kiting in 70 knot cyclone winds on his 8m rebel or whatever. they're just lying.

i don't know... the wind range they advertised on the rebel is pretty accurate... i can ride my 9m 07 rebel in 14 - 32knots (especially if its nice flat water like it is in Marrochydore) and for the 9m 08 rebel (which is meant to have more low end than the 07) they advertised 14 - 34 which seems about right.

I've just sold my Rebel to buy an Ozone EdgeII.
The Rebel is a good kite, and does have a good wind range, but nothing like the Edge.
The Edge jumps big if you get it right. Main thing is, don't choke it when you send it back.
I tried the Sport, but found it did not go as big, and did not have the same hang time.

hmmm 30kn, maybe hitting 35kn tomorrow, 9m Edge2... I can't express how excited I am right now...

Get back to me on how the top end is on the 9m dude, if i was to buy a high-wind kite it would be either an 8m sonic or a 7 or 9 edge II. i think the edge would be the most stable, i couldn't believe the rock solid stability of the 11 i had.

Hi Neill, it was 24kn hitting 35kn yesterday, probably more as we kite at a spot with a 7km clear ocean fetch from the airport (smithton), which is on land.
The 9m Edge canopy remains solid at all times, it does feel the gusts a little more than last years sports thou. The glide and float is wicked, and leave the anti invert lines on. I was 5km from the car, somehow undershot the kite and it went to invert, but it couldn't, so as the lines on one side tensioned it spun out and kept flying, which was a damned good thing when you have no beach to re-set everything on.

Theres some guys with GK's down in Hobart, and they're very happy with them, they seem very stable and handle the cold gusty winds down here too. They have had issues with the one pump deflating mid sesh thou.

One thing is for sure, it's not a bow kite, it won't depower like a bow so I think the GK and Ozones are a different breed?

The other guy out had a 9m 07 Boxer and that kite was behaving very well, just not boosting anywhere near the Edge The edge was also out pointing the boxer by at least 12-15 degrees.

So in answer to your question, the 9m edge will fly perfectly predictably until the point that you decide when to come in, not the kite. I think the 7m would be ideal in 35kn plus as boosting it will be easier in choppy water.

But OMFG! what a sesh! My new favourite word is "HANGTIME!"

07/03:00pm 14.8 WSW 21 28 1012.3 - 0.0 - - - - - - -
07/02:30pm 14.9 WSW 23 32 1012.1 - 0.0 - - - - - - -
07/02:00pm 14.7 WSW 23 33 1012.0 - 0.0 - - - - - - -
07/01:47pm 14.0 WSW 22 33 1012.0 - 0.0 - - - - - - -
07/01:30pm 14.2 WSW 25 34 1011.9 - 0.0 - - - - - - -
07/01:00pm 15.6 WSW 25 36 1011.8 - 0.0 - - - - - - -
07/12:32pm 15.4 WSW 23 33 1012.0 - 0.0 - - - - - - -
07/12:30pm 15.2 WSW 22 31 1012.0 - 0.0 - - - - - - -
07/12:00pm 15.2 W 22 29 1012.3 - 0.0 - - - - - - -
07/11:30am 14.4 WSW 21 29 1012.9 - 0.0 - - - - - - -
07/11:00am 13.7 WSW 19 24 1013.3 - 0.0 - - - - - - -
07/10:30am 13.9 WSW 18 23 1013.1 - 0.0 - - - - - - -

hi guys, have any of you tried tth ozone light in 35 knts + ? just wondereed if she would be a good storm surf kite for the winter?

well i made the decision today - couldnt' justify 2 grand on a 9m edge II, so spent $600 on a second hand 8m sonic to go with my 11m of the same breed. for an absolute high-end kite, i would have probably preferred the edge but i just couldn't justify the money, given that i will only be using this kite when the wind is consistently over 25 knots. the sonic will do everything i ask it to, with less hangtime but similar height to the edge (just speaking from experience) so hopefully it will last me until the 09 kites come out.