Rider: Weight: 120 kg, Level (usually intermediate/rarely advanced)
Style: Freeriding, Distance Cruising
Weather: 8- 20 knots
Build Quality: 9/10 when new (1/10 5 months later)
Satisfaction: 9/10 when new (1/10 5 months later)
Disclosure: Pay for my stuff

My Comments:

I got the North 5 line World Cup edition bar with the kevlar lines with the idea that I pay more money for the expensive ones and with the reputation of stronger, longer lasting lines, I figured they finally made some lines that won't fail in 6 months.

I immediately loved how the lines made my Dyno 18m fly and when I put the same bar/lines on my 14m Rebel 2012, instant feedback, all of it, good or bad. With the less stretch, you feel every nuance of the kite and once you get used to it, you don't wanna go back to the springy old ones that you never new how springy they feel. I loved 'em so much, first time in my 8 years of kiting I actually would wash them in fresh water every session and dry before I put away in a bag. Treated with kid-gloves!

But just recently, I was just starting a session, and while kite climbing up on first sine, twang, all front lines snapped, two at the end of the lines and one on the y point. What the..??? Recovered kite and swapped over with standard lines, then completed the session.

I checked the lines carefully and noticed that the kevlar lines were a bit more fury than usual, almost like a heshen bag, or almost like cotton rope, the entire length. Not sure why but I think I've only had possibly 20 or so sessions on these lines and surely they should last longer than this. I know its hard to prove but I was ever so careful, infact only one other person has ever tried them and that was my missus for 20 minutes.

Anyway, does any one have any experience with these lines, can they check theirs or let me know if they have had any trouble?? Should I be looking for warranty, what do you think?

Cheers for now,

Robbie

'Apparently' as I have heard many a time and has been posted on other threads....

Select to expand quote

Big eeeZeee said...

you get what you pay for....


worms worms worms

Not that I believe this, but I am guessing they were pretty expensive so I would be contacting North or whoever you bought them from but as you said only you know how you treated them so I am not sure how you would go warranty wise.

Select to expand quote

Puetz said...


Rider: Weight: 120 kg, Level (usually intermediate/rarely advanced)
Style: Freeriding, Distance Cruising
Weather: 8- 20 knots
Build Quality: 9/10 when new (1/10 5 months later)
Satisfaction: 9/10 when new (1/10 5 months later)
Disclosure: Pay for my stuff

My Comments:

I got the North 5 line World Cup edition bar with the kevlar lines with the idea that I pay more money for the expensive ones and with the reputation of stronger, longer lasting lines, I figured they finally made some lines that won't fail in 6 months.

I immediately loved how the lines made my Dyno 18m fly and when I put the same bar/lines on my 14m Rebel 2012, instant feedback, all of it, good or bad. With the less stretch, you feel every nuance of the kite and once you get used to it, you don't wanna go back to the springy old ones that you never new how springy they feel. I loved 'em so much, first time in my 8 years of kiting I actually would wash them in fresh water every session and dry before I put away in a bag. Treated with kid-gloves!

But just recently, I was just starting a session, and while kite climbing up on first sine, twang, all front lines snapped, two at the end of the lines and one on the y point. What the..??? Recovered kite and swapped over with standard lines, then completed the session.

I checked the lines carefully and noticed that the kevlar lines were a bit more fury than usual, almost like a heshen bag, or almost like cotton rope, the entire length. Not sure why but I think I've only had possibly 20 or so sessions on these lines and surely they should last longer than this. I know its hard to prove but I was ever so careful, infact only one other person has ever tried them and that was my missus for 20 minutes.

Anyway, does any one have any experience with these lines, can they check theirs or let me know if they have had any trouble?? Should I be looking for warranty, what do you think?

Cheers for now,

Robbie

I'd claim warranty. You pay an extra $200 or so for these lines so they shouldn't break after 20 sessions. If the second pair break, I'd ask for a refund and get a normal pair along with the difference.

Aren't they for racing? maybe they don't like rubbing against one another, loops rolls passes etc? just a thought.

After busting several sets of standard north lines , most less than 1 season old . I went to a set of q power line pro' s about 3 years ago ,I have transferred these lines between bars and kites and these lines have not missed a beat they are thinner , stronger , no stretch and way more durable . By memory is was under $300 for four 55m spools I got 2 sets of 25 m lines and a set of 5 m extensions out of it .

I'm making up a custom race bar setup and I know which lines I will be using on that!

G'day guys,

thanks for your replies.

Reckon I'm gunna look into the Q lines for sure, sound good. They sound like exactly what I want.

I've given the bar to my local dealer and he is going to look into it.

I specifically wanted these lines because they had a reputation for ultra low stretch and durability, so I went out on a limb and got them anyway, even though I couldn't find any info on the durability back then. I figured kevlars low stretch would surely have performance enhancements over the standard lines and as it turned out, they did. They really let you feel every movement and adjust accordingly. Not that I wanted them for that but it was a nice benifit.

cheers,

Robbie

ps Hey Rattlehead, do you have a link on how to tie or set up the q lines? Thanks for info.

Select to expand quote

Puetz said...

G'day guys,

thanks for your replies.

Reckon I'm gunna look into the Q lines for sure, sound good. They sound like exactly what I want.

I've given the bar to my local dealer and he is going to look into it.

I specifically wanted these lines because they had a reputation for ultra low stretch and durability, so I went out on a limb and got them anyway, even though I couldn't find any info on the durability back then. I figured kevlars low stretch would surely have performance enhancements over the standard lines and as it turned out, they did. They really let you feel every movement and adjust accordingly. Not that I wanted them for that but it was a nice benifit.

cheers,

Robbie

ps Hey Rattlehead, do you have a link on how to tie or set up the q lines? Thanks for info.

Instructions for the knots come with the line , don't know what the knots called but it's a simple knot like a looped double fig 8 . Make sure you put 2 knots at each end , the stuff is as slippery as ,the only problem I had was by putting only one knot in it and it slipped through. The lines I have are 3 seasons old and are as good as new .

www.powerline-sports.com/knots.html


Knot link
Like I said do this knot but make the loop fairly long and put a 2nd knot in it , surprisingly the knots can be undone even after years of heavy load , this stuff is good Shyt , don't know why kite manufacturers don't use this stuff as standard , the lines would possibly far outlive the life of the kite?

G'day Rattlhead,

thanks for info again.

Oh, I see, simple figure 8, I thought there were going to be some sort of fancy knots but then I just remembered that the lines have a protective layer so no need for extra coverings, cool!

I noticed there is a few different variaties of lines available, which one do you recommend, I'd say the 1000 pound one looks like the one for me? I seem not able to find the diameter of the line, is it bigger, same or smaller than say, the North standard lines?

Many thanks,

Robbie

These are the ones I'm running.www.powerline-sports.com/pwrpro.html they are a similar thickness to the north lines only a heap stronger ( not sure about breaking strain of the north lines ,but the qpowerlines are a heap better wear /abrasion resistant , and minimal stretch ) you get really good feedback from the kite , only down side is they whistle like a bastard(sounds like a turbo or supercharger spooling up) which I believe is because they are perfectly round? , and they can be a little harder to run out on the beach because they are so stiff.

... Thanks again dude.

I'm waiting for the dealer to let me know what they are doing about the Kevlar lines but I'm really keen on the q lines now, and the cool thing to is I can make custom lengths too!

Cheers,

Robbie

Kevlar, should not ever be used for kite lines.
Its has properties that exclude it from use for kite lines.
First one is that it breaks down and is weakened by UV light, second is that it is extremely abrasive and will cut itself and almost any other known kite flying line.
Back in the day it was banned from kite festivals, to hear it is now being touted as the new gimmick to wring extra $$$ from unwitting brand loyalists is quite amusing to say the least.
Good luck with your warranty claim.

In the meantime, try Q-Power or Ozone 500kg/300kg linesets stronger, thinner and less stretchy than any on the market that I have seen.
Ozone here
http://www.kitepower.com.au/ozone-4-5-linesets.html

Q-Power here
www.kitepower.com.au/q-powerline-pro.html

... cheers Steve!

Select to expand quote

Puetz said...

... cheers Steve!

No worries Rob I've done a bit more digging because I could not believe ant kite brand let alone one of the top brands would re-introduce Kevlar back into kiting, when it is widely known is is totally unsuitable for flying multi line kites.

Is it a gimmick to grab more bucks from gullible consumers? Does it really work and is it worth the care and short life span? You decide.

The product used in the North lines is commonly known as Zylon, it is a polymer based product, so it is similar to spectra and dyneema, but it is more expensive and has some properties that make it unlikely to be commonly used for general kiting.
Unlike Spectra and Dyneema (which are just trade names for essentially chemically identical products), Zylon is affected by UV and light, as well as seawater, so it must be specially sealed, and it is when this sealing breaks down that the Zylon fibres can fail due to hydroscopic properties and its ability to be degraded chemically by light/UV.
So probaly what has happened to your lines is that the coating has become damaged and then the lines has failed.
Many products originally made with Zylon were recalled after these weaknesses were discovered.
The tiny, if any, advantage that these lines would give a kite racer is questionable. The mechanical properties that have made it popular in yacht rigging are its slightly higher tensile strength over Dyneema (Zylon 1.6x and Dyneema 1.5x) and its much higher melting temperature. The advantage that Dyneema has over everything else is its self lubricating property, and high tensile strength combined with very low weight, UV Stability, etc.

Read all about Zylon here
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zylon
and here
www.toyobo-global.com/seihin/kc/pbo/menu/fra_menu_en.htm

Spectra Dyneema here
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyneema
and here
www.toyobo-global.com/seihin/dn/dyneema/seihin/

Select to expand quote

Kitepower Australia said...

Puetz said...

... cheers Steve!

No worries Rob I've done a bit more digging because I could not believe ant kite brand let alone one of the top brands would re-introduce Kevlar back into kiting, when it is widely known is is totally unsuitable for flying multi line kites.

Is it a gimmick to grab more bucks from gullible consumers? Does it really work and is it worth the care and short life span? You decide.

The product used in the North lines is commonly known as Zylon, it is a polymer based product, so it is similar to spectra and dyneema, but it is more expensive and has some properties that make it unlikely to be commonly used for general kiting.
Unlike Spectra and Dyneema (which are just trade names for essentially chemically identical products), Zylon is affected by UV and light, as well as seawater, so it must be specially sealed, and it is when this sealing breaks down that the Zylon fibres can fail due to hydroscopic properties and its ability to be degraded chemically by light/UV.
So probaly what has happened to your lines is that the coating has become damaged and then the lines has failed.
Many products originally made with Zylon were recalled after these weaknesses were discovered.
The tiny, if any, advantage that these lines would give a kite racer is questionable. The mechanical properties that have made it popular in yacht rigging are its slightly higher tensile strength over Dyneema (Zylon 1.6x and Dyneema 1.5x) and its much higher melting temperature. The advantage that Dyneema has over everything else is its self lubricating property, and high tensile strength combined with very low weight, UV Stability, etc.

Read all about Zylon here
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zylon
and here
www.toyobo-global.com/seihin/kc/pbo/menu/fra_menu_en.htm

Spectra Dyneema here
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyneema
and here
www.toyobo-global.com/seihin/dn/dyneema/seihin/

... thats great info Steve, interesting indeed, thanks for that!

I think your right, the UV got to them, even though I hadn't actually used the lines that often, not compared to my standard lines, but being 'sensitive' to UV isn't a good thing especially seeing as most of us spend the day at the beach hopefully with the sun shining.

Mind you, durability aside, I could easily feel the difference between the kevlar and the standard lines when it came to the performance and how the kite felt. Even the missus could feel it, and for me was most evident on my 18m Dyno, and it definitely had better performance. I hope I can get the same feel with the Q Line.

Cheers,

Robbie

Select to expand quote

Kitepower Australia said...

Puetz said...

... cheers Steve!

No worries Rob I've done a bit more digging because I could not believe ant kite brand let alone one of the top brands would re-introduce Kevlar back into kiting, when it is widely known is is totally unsuitable for flying multi line kites.

Is it a gimmick to grab more bucks from gullible consumers? Does it really work and is it worth the care and short life span? You decide.

The product used in the North lines is commonly known as Zylon, it is a polymer based product, so it is similar to spectra and dyneema, but it is more expensive and has some properties that make it unlikely to be commonly used for general kiting.
Unlike Spectra and Dyneema (which are just trade names for essentially chemically identical products), Zylon is affected by UV and light, as well as seawater, so it must be specially sealed, and it is when this sealing breaks down that the Zylon fibres can fail due to hydroscopic properties and its ability to be degraded chemically by light/UV.
So probaly what has happened to your lines is that the coating has become damaged and then the lines has failed.
Many products originally made with Zylon were recalled after these weaknesses were discovered.
The tiny, if any, advantage that these lines would give a kite racer is questionable. The mechanical properties that have made it popular in yacht rigging are its slightly higher tensile strength over Dyneema (Zylon 1.6x and Dyneema 1.5x) and its much higher melting temperature. The advantage that Dyneema has over everything else is its self lubricating property, and high tensile strength combined with very low weight, UV Stability, etc.

Read all about Zylon here
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zylon
and here
www.toyobo-global.com/seihin/kc/pbo/menu/fra_menu_en.htm

Spectra Dyneema here
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyneema
and here
www.toyobo-global.com/seihin/dn/dyneema/seihin/

It was used on boats first in the America's Cup. Boats would suffer from the same issues with degradation so if there were issues, I would have expected them to pick it up there. It doesn't actually have kevlar, its just compared to kevlar.

"For the first time ever this bar utilizes pbo (Polybenzobisoxa- zol) line, which has been thoroughly tested at the America's Cup. PBO line is lightweight, strong and resistant to extreme changes in temperature and over several months in harshest conditions, shows it's worth with minimal stretch and lasting durability."

I'm not saying its not a bull**** claim or anything like that, I'm just saying it has been tried and testing in the sailing world so I don't think it was a "lets just throw this in our bars" kind of decision. That said, I haven't seen a whole heap of people complaining about them, but I haven't been looking either.

Select to expand quote

Saffer said..

... That said, I haven't seen a whole heap of people complaining about them, but I haven't been looking either

... hence my enquirery. I just wanna find out if its a common problem or isolated. I've sent a few emails around but as yet, no responses so time will tell I surpose!

cheers,

Robbie

G'day all,

My dealer organised a full set of standard lines and I've now replaced the kevlar ones. All is good so atleast I have a working bar, but without the stiffness (stretchless) of the kevlar lines, oh well.

My dealer confirmed that North aren't going to make these lines, not at this stage, so I reckon it was a good experiment, just not for the normal customer like me.

Still gunna look at the Q lines though!

cheers,

Robbie

It'd be nice if manufacturers' experimenting could be done on team riders rather than on paying customers. Something like this:

Test, then, if it works, sell.

Rather than sell, then hope it works.

Simple eh!

^^^ Totally agree Dojo

So glad I didn't get suckered into buying a set of these.

Select to expand quote

McSalty said...

^^^ Totally agree Dojo

So glad I didn't get suckered into buying a set of these.

... I agree too!

Durability aside, they perform great and really did make the kite perform different to normal, and for me, better performance, its hard to discribe without going on and on. I don't race or compete but feeling every little impulse from the kite made it easy to adjust, trim, etc etc and ironically stiffer suspension made the ride softer.

Anyway, enough blah blah from me,

cheers,

Robbie