Hi

The Naish Sigma kites have been out for a while now in their 1st season with the new shape.

Can anyone that has flown these kites give as objective opinion as possible whether they think that these kites are the bomb ie great, avg, dud, etc...

Only had a few goes on them, so my opinion may not carry a heap of weight.

They seem to just be another funny looking hybrid, with their greatest attribute being smoother depower, correct me if I am wrong.

Thanks
Matt
Let the pimping begin

Been flying a 12m Cult for 6 months now - can't fault it. Depower range is excellent - gusty winds up to 25 knots don't trouble me at all. The thing I like most about this kite is the way it recovers if it overflies the window - just floats backwards happily into position - even with slack lines - never once has it luffed and fallen from the sky. You notice the 20 metre (supplied length) lines in lighter winds as the kite lacks a little bottom end power - the 4 meter line extensions would be useful - not needed however when the wind picks up.

The power adjusters (above bar) are a little hard to reach, but work OK. I can't fault the bar otherwise - the safety systems have always worked 100% for me (only ever needed them for the occasional self landing). The kite flags to the right hand front line - I added a slingshot stopper ball to this line to stop the bar going all the way to the kite (one wingspan and a bit from the bar).

The sigma shape and geotech features certainly perform as per the marketing spin. The kite relaunches instantly provided there is enough wind (I'd guess 14 knots). Lighter winds takes a bit more patience to get the kite to rotate on a wingtip. The LE needs to be inflated hard, but then the kite is super rigid in the air. Turning speed is what you would expect for a well designed bridled kite, bar pressure light. The depower is certainly very progressive courtesy of the sigma shape.

I've found this kite to be confidence inspiring in the very average wind we've had in QLD of late (ie 5 knots bum in the water gusting to 25 knots fully sheeted out). Never once felt out of control. I upgraded from an 2002 C kite to the Cult - the Cult has put a smile on my face every time I've flown it.

thanks didi, you given me a greater insight of the sigmas i've been thinking about getting one. Ive read up on them heaps of times never really got that much info on them it's better if someone who has one and flown one, to really tell you how they perform! hope all is well..

I haven't got the same level of experience as most kiters on this forum but would add the following.....

was disaapointed with the initial depower set up when I purchased the kite. Found the depower straps were easily tangled and got in the way alot. I changed to the "Smart Loop" after xmas and have found the arrangement vastly improved with an increase in the depower range as well. I think the kite now comes with the smart loop as standard.

Water relaunch was what really sold me on this kite. When the kite is LE down and directly downwind a few hefty pulls on a steering line will get a tip off the water and in the air.

Well i have a 12 Alliance, have had now for 2 months & out almost every arvo.

So, the shaped is awesome, amazing depower, I'm a little under 70kgs on a 132 board & happy out in 30knt winds & can stay up wind just in about 16-17knts

As for the kite.....
Nice one pump inflation system, easy self launch & self land.
2 weeks old, the bladder started leaking around the valve (replaced under warranty no issues thanks to RPS
I had the demo kite out whilst mine was being repaired, now i'm pretty aware of the usage of the kite as the majoritity of it has been myself. It has had maybe 6-8weeks use max.
I was midway through a backroll & kiteloop when the front main line snapped on me the big 5mm one, And i make sure that lines are clean from sand etc, when packed away.
So not sure if that has something to do with the rope being used or what?

But otherwise... awesome kite!

The alliance isn't as easy to water relaunch as it needs to be pulled onto its back with the 5th line & then swung around to relaunch so a bit harder, but moral to the story is don't drop it

Would i buy another? The answer is yes! the Alliance just works, the lack of grunt you might call it was odd at first but have since worked out how to get more pull out of it
Probably go a 10m next time and should still be good in 18 - 35 knts

Cheers
Andrew

Andrew,

Was your leak around the valve a slow leak? How long did it take to notice when you pumped it up?

Cheers,

Robert

I had an 07 Boxer SLE which flew great but didn't last a season, bridles snapped, trim line wore through, etc, etc. To their credit the store and Naish sorted me out with a 12m Cult. I am 95kg, ride a 136x41 board and have been out in 10 through to 28knots. I'm not pimping for anyone and usually get out for 3-5hours four to five times a week and have flown a range of kites. I have found the following applies;
GOOD
light bar pressure
easy relaunch
stable and predictable
fast turning
HEAPS OF BOOST, HEAPS, especially in 20 to 25knots.
good upwind
flies fast

BAD
manual says you need to replace bridles every three months. Naish should have used quality materials here instead of expecting the consumer to fork out for bridles every three months.
Trim line on mine started to fray after the third session, won't last long.
Depower strap tangles a bit
probably pilot error but every now and then you get more boost then you expected,
heaps more.
The bag is still crap and too small.

CONCLUSION;
Another great flying kite from Naish that delivers but suffers from the use of materials that, in my experience, aren't up to the task. I have made new trim lines and bridles from quality spectre and there is no wear problem. I make the bridles out of 500kg spectre which is a better diameter for the pulleys and unpick the trim line from the chicken loop and replace it with 1300kg spectre, lasts much longer and isn't as soft. Costs me about an hour and $20, if Naish did it it wouldn't even add to the cost of the kite so I don't understand why they keep using the lines they do. P.S. but you do get excellent service from JB.

Gr3at!!!
StRoNG GrunTy Kit3s ThAt BOOst is ObTaInabl3 from a Short Run Of oNly S3v3ral m3tr3s . UPwinD R3aCh AwsoM3. Throw On Th3 Bar and D3pow3r InstanTly. Nic3 HaNG/GLid3 And 3asy to Improv3 your Mov3s on B3Caus3 iT iS So stable3. TUrNiNG iS Phat. LUV M LUV M LuV M.

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professor said...

Gr3at!!!
StRoNG GrunTy Kit3s ThAt BOOst is ObTaInabl3 from a Short Run Of oNly S3v3ral m3tr3s . UPwinD R3aCh AwsoM3. Throw On Th3 Bar and D3pow3r InstanTly. Nic3 HaNG/GLid3 And 3asy to Improv3 your Mov3s on B3Caus3 iT iS So stable3. TUrNiNG iS Phat. LUV M LUV M LuV M.

Is that even English??

Anyway, I heard from people who had a go on a couple of different Cults at Kitestock that they were pretty impressed with them. Cant comment on the build quality as they were demos which prob didnt have much use.

Got the 12 and 9 cults and am really enjoying the kite.Only used the 12 about three times this season and been on the nine the rest.Will go 10.5 and 7.5 for my 09 quiver as the nine has an amazing bottom end so no need for big kites anymore.

The kite does everything well and the constant tension on the canopy makes for the smoothest ride out of any kite I have ever tried especially when you sheet out no canopy flutter at all.

As for build quality no problems at all bar some stitching coming off one of the struts.Easily fixed with a needle and thread and some seam grip.And the rope on the smart loop is wearing and will probably have to replace it shortly.I have dropped this kite in the waves been dragged through the water and looked up thinking my kite was in pieces only to see it in one piece, so build quality is strong.

Looking forward to the 09 models as their probably been made right now somewhere in China.

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Random said...

Andrew,

Was your leak around the valve a slow leak? How long did it take to notice when you pumped it up?

Cheers,

Robert

I could hear it straight away whilst pumping.
But the kite is back to top condition now



Just another view on the Alliance :

I've been using it for a couple of months now was starting to think it was a bit slow turning. But i had a crack on a slingshot Fuel & what do ya know my Naish turns just as quick so it was all in my head

So now that summer is coming to an end in melbourne probably going to get myself an 8m Alliance & it'll be just as quick as the fuel c kites out there

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danza said...
And the rope on the smart loop is wearing and will probably have to replace it shortly.

How much use has this one had?

I have used the kite about 30 times this summer , my mates cult, his rope has just snapped and he needs to replace the bridal section where it runs through the pulley.

I am going to check mine today properly as it probably will need to be replaced as well.

The funny thing is I thought the teeth on the smart loop might cause a bit of wear and tear but it did not , the rope is actually wearing higher up where their is alot of bar movement.

Anyway not bad for 6 months of kiting it would be nice though if there were no pulleys on the 09 models.

Thx Juggler,

I have a 14m Alliance, love it but i have been a bit paranoid that it was leaking...turns out it was all in my head.

Have you been riding yours on shortest back line knot? I switched back to middle knot the other day and didn't like it at all!

have a 9 and 12 cult. i also had some dramas when switching to those knots. was seeking a bit more power, and got a bit more before alot of stalls. lots of rocky outcrops here. did the same thing on the 12 and it now looks like a dalmation :(

i do really like the kites but have so little experience to say how they compare. found them really easy to learn on though (except when i experimented with the tuning) never had any dramas or felt overpowered.

the bags are absolute rubbish, as were the the zipps on the naish golf bag which lasted less than a day. have they not heard of ykk?

ps i way 85kg

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Random said...

Thx Juggler,

I have a 14m Alliance, love it but i have been a bit paranoid that it was leaking...turns out it was all in my head.

Have you been riding yours on shortest back line knot? I switched back to middle knot the other day and didn't like it at all!

I chop & change them around to suit the wind range, say 16 - 18 knts get the shortest, 18 - 25ish see's the middle knot & 25 upwards see's the top knot.

Not a fan of using depower on the front lines as it changes how the 5th line holds the kite in shape & find it jumps around too much.

So looks like i might have to get a spare main rope before going on any trips away as they seem to be a weak link

I didn't think the front line depower effects the 5th line length. Doesn't the stopper on the 5th (where the front lines separate) keep the 5th tension between the kite and where the front lines separate? I have notice the alliance gets a bit jumpy right near the top of the wind range, it might be worth trying to use the shortest 5th line knot on the kite....Maybe???

Yet to play around with where the 5th line knot is attached, might do that next time we get some wind

I played around with the fifth line attachment when i first got my Alliance 12m and found that it flies better for me at the longest attachment point. Any tighter than that and it felt like it was being choked and spilling too much power. The best way to test it is to just ever so slightly pull the fifth line whilst it's flying; you'll see very quicky when you get an inch or two of the fifth line that it loses it's grunt.
Oh yeah and the fifth line doesn't change length when you pull the depower in. Exactly as Random said, the 'shift' stopper ball keeps it at the intended length the entire time.

FWIW i really like my Alliance 12. It's a completely different sort of kite to my previously owned Ozone Instinct, but it's a direction i wanted to take. I've only recently started to adjust the rear line attachment points off the tightest setting and am finding that i can now adapt the kite to an even broader wind range than previously possible. At the tightest setting (most power) i fly from ~15-22kn, then swap over onto the middle knot for ~22-30kn. I've not yet ever felt really overpowered using the middle knot so haven't given the last knot a shot yet.