I am just 3 sessions in on my 10m 2015 pivot it is a great kite and I am really liking it so far. I previously had a bws noise pro 10m as my main kite but wanted something with more free ride capability. The pivot definitely has more power and low end than the Noise pro, I am undecided as to whether it turns faster though and I have not had an opportunity to really test out its top end yet. It kind of feels about 1 size bigger than the noise but I am really not sure if I am just imagining it. Even though its been super windy i have not been kiting enough lately to get a good enough idea as I have been flat out with work.

What are peoples thoughts is the pivot really just a bigger kite than stated on the wingtip or is it the design of the kite that gives it more power and low end.

before anyone starts up about the noise pro, the noise pro is true to size (if there is such a thing) and a much quicker and more nimble kite than its original noise predecessor which was roughly 2 sizes bigger than the number on the side.

i have a 12 meter pivot. it is almost the same size of my 12 2015 solo an 12 2012 REO.

I have 6/8/11m Pivot. I compared the sizes to 2014 Naish Park 7/9/12. The 8m Pivot for example is smaller/has less cloth than the 9m Park. But the majority of the difference sits in the tips. The span width is the same, AR is higher, so there is just a little less cloth in the middle. The tips a of course are different. Pivot swept back, delta-ish, Park square, more cloth. I think this influences less of the windrange but the turning characteristics.
With the Pivot having a more open arc, I found the windrange of the 8m Pivot is similar to the 9m Park (2014). So a 9m Pivot would have more low end (compared to Park) but also less high end. There are no miracles there.

Naish Pivots have a high projected area per size. Hence they have a powerful feel to them. When I tested a Pivot, it also had the tendency to sit a bit deeper in the window than what I'm used to which also helps the bottom end. The 10m Pivot has a project area of about 6.5m which is slightly more than a North Rebel 10m (6.3m) and the Rebel has a fairly good top end as like the pivot, it steers accurately when fully depowered so I would expect the Pivot to have decent top end

If you look at the kite you can see the Aspect and Projected area info printed on them. You can compare the figures to other kite companies (Switch and North publish figures on their websites) to get a feel for how a kite will compare. In summary I don't think the size is wrong. Its just a design feature.

I used to have a 10m Naish Ride that had massive low end and I put it on top of a 10m Rebel and they were almost identical in size. Just the way the kite is tuned changed the behaviour. Same with the Pivot.

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JacobMatan said..
I am just 3 sessions in on my 10m 2015 pivot it is a great kite and I am really liking it so far. I previously had a bws noise pro 10m as my main kite but wanted something with more free ride capability. The pivot definitely has more power and low end than the Noise pro, I am undecided as to whether it turns faster though and I have not had an opportunity to really test out its top end yet. It kind of feels about 1 size bigger than the noise but I am really not sure if I am just imagining it. Even though its been super windy i have not been kiting enough lately to get a good enough idea as I have been flat out with work.

What are peoples thoughts is the pivot really just a bigger kite than stated on the wingtip or is it the design of the kite that gives it more power and low end.

before anyone starts up about the noise pro, the noise pro is true to size (if there is such a thing) and a much quicker and more nimble kite than its original noise predecessor which was roughly 2 sizes bigger than the number on the side.

"I have not had an opportunity to really test out its top end yet" - Haven't you been in WA the last week?

^^^^^ Yes as I said I have been flat out with work also the only time I did go kiting it was 30 knots and I was doing a downwinder on a surfboard, not really the best time to be trying out your new 10m

I am now 5 sessions in having been out the last 2 days and I am absolutely loving this kite, pretty much everything I had read about it I agree with.
It was low twenties with some gusts up in the high twenties and even during the gusts I didn't feel close to being overpowered I could definitely hold this down up to around 30 knots. And the jumps !! man the jumps!!!

Now that you have mentioned it the higher projected area is more obvious to me, the kite looks a little bigger in the sky than normal because there is such a big open surface to catch the wind.

Oh and did I mention the jumps!

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JacobMatan said..
^^^^^ Yes as I said I have been flat out with work also the only time I did go kiting it was 30 knots and I was doing a downwinder on a surfboard, not really the best time to be trying out your new 10m

I am now 5 sessions in having been out the last 2 days and I am absolutely loving this kite, pretty much everything I had read about it I agree with.
It was low twenties with some gusts up in the high twenties and even during the gusts I didn't feel close to being overpowered I could definitely hold this down up to around 30 knots. And the jumps !! man the jumps!!!

Now that you have mentioned it the higher projected area is more obvious to me, the kite looks a little bigger in the sky than normal because there is such a big open surface to catch the wind.

Oh and did I mention the jumps!

Sorry Jacob missed this bit -" i have not been kiting enough lately to get a good enough idea as I have been flat out with work."
Glad to hear your enjoying your new kite.
Sounds like it has a big wind range - I'm thinking of getting a new 9 or 10 Meter kite - Have you got a low end wind range with your weight and board size? SB and TT etc

I am 105kgs and tend to ride sb more than twin tip, I usually ride the twin tip just when I'm well powered up, I would probably start on the twin tip with this kite at about -18 knots and with my nugget I would be easy holding ground at about 15 knots i think( haven't actually tested that yet)
Top end I am guessing around 30 with the twin tip and 25 with a normal surfboard ( not the nugget) but I wouldn't tend to ride really powered up with the sb

These figures estimates though I will still need a bit more time with kite to suss it out

Thanks Jacob

man this whole thread is embaressing.

please learn how kites fly and work. my hed hurts reading this ****, conspiracy theory that they put a 12m print on 13sqm of cloth?!? hooooohhhhboy wheres my whiteboard?

^^ Ah yes thanks mate, maybe I'm not as well versed in kite design as I could be but this is definitely a legit question and the same issue has been raised many times before and was being discussed in the Reo vs Neo thread just a while ago.

I (83kg, TT and SB) used to ride 7-10m, started with the Bandit Dos, followed up by Fuse and now for the Pivot I went 2 sizes down. Riding 5m and 8m now. The 8m is insane, great lowend, fast, nimble, great jumper and lovely in the waves. I can ride it from 16 knots on my Nugget and a knot or so later on my TT. Working the kite, which is easy on the 8, you can generate a lot of power. The other week I was doing real big jumps while other guys were out on 10-11-12m kites, they couldn't believe I was riding only an 8m! Had the 5m out yesterday, strapped SB, big waves in winds gusting up to 40+ knots, this kite rocks. Works for me from 25 knots up to I don't know yet..

The top end can't be that great. There is a current thread going about the Pivot deforming under load.

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Kitesurfing/General/2-x-pretzels-in-one-session/

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samokta said..
The top end can't be that great. There is a current thread going about the Pivot deforming under load.

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Kitesurfing/General/2-x-pretzels-in-one-session/

im 95kg and am quite happy on my 9m pivot. 25 knots and it's on with my 148 ocean rodeo TT. Only have a 9m and that's all i need.

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samokta said...
The top end can't be that great. There is a current thread going about the Pivot deforming under load.

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Kitesurfing/General/2-x-pretzels-in-one-session/

Very solid winds tonight, upper limits for 7s
Watched a pivot and saw nothing untoward in kite behaviour , in fact looked very solid , other brands not so

I got caught out in 55-60knots on my 8m pivot. Before I decided (after about 15 seconds of it hitting) to punched out there was no deforming of the kite.

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samokta said..
The top end can't be that great. There is a current thread going about the Pivot deforming under load.

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Kitesurfing/General/2-x-pretzels-in-one-session/

Rock solid, no problem at all. Small sizes are more rigid anyway..

Just a bit of an update as I have now had a fair few more sessions on the kite. I have to say I am absolutely loving this kite it does everything I want it to really well ( riding waves, jumping and just generally towing a 105kg lump around). I had bought this kite without demoing just based on all the rave reviews ( dangerous I know) and am absolutely stoked with it.

As far as wind range I can easily hold ground at 15 knots with my 5'5 nugget and could probably get a knot or 2 lower if I really wanted. At the top end I have had it out in solid 25knots gusting to the high twenties boosting on a twin tip, it was do able at this wind speed and the boosts were massive but I don't think I would really want to take it out in stronger winds as I would just prefer to use a smaller kite.
Now for a 7m ( and 14 for light winds )

Had my 8m 2016 out yesterday for the first time. Had the 2015 before and had put them on top of each other. I could not see any differences, bridle connections points the same, etc. On the water it felt identical (which is great). I read somewhere that they did a bit of fine-tuning to some of the sizes for 2016, but the 8m probably did not belong to the lot.