Hey eppo firstly great review . ok iam a 60 kg little scrawney frame person riding in wind slop waves on a good windy day 4-6 ft on the others 2-3ft tops anyhow i like playing around on these . Ride into face toe side and slash the wave riding out heel side ( do this for hours). Our average wind is 10 -15 so i ride a 11 meter and when it gets 20 or more on a 6 meter . Sorry getting my life story what size mako would you surgest iam sick of leaning back so hard on the tt to stop me from tripping over the front of it . I nearly bought a cardboard mutant but this sounds better . I have a rocket fish 5'5 but this needs a lot of power to ride to much drag i think .Any how what you think .
Happy winds Sam
an old 2007 crazyfly allrounder 138x38 it has no concave and smallesh rocker gets me going in 11kn to 38kn after a jump with speed is hard to get rail locked back in likes to slide has 55mm fins .
Okay your crazy fly might be longish but it is not very wide at 38cm.
I'm no expert on the aboard remember and you need to direct this question to john at OR the designer of this board, easy enough to do.
In those winds to be safe though I'd say the 150. You might get away with the 140 but 10 to 15, even at 60kg that's not a lot of wind going over your sail.
Ask john and get back to us all, this is an interesting one. The king would be too heavy at your weight at least the 150 will still be very nimble and quick.
Its hard to extrapolate as the winds have been so fierce lately I am yet to see the low end on my 11m edge at 75kg on the 140. And the 11m edge packs a mean punch to as it develops apparent wind. What's ya kite type and brand again?
thanks eppo for information the kite for the low wind up to18- 20 is cab 2011 switchblade 11 meter and the 6meter for the higher end is an ocean rodeo rise 2010 (which i would love too slow down). Iam looking at a 8 ,9 meter for the in between not sure what yet it will be of wave drift stiyle but a kite that drifts and sits forward of window for punching upwind and simple no bells no crap just a kite that will do the job .
orr i do feel sorry for you too with the wind, at least some one is getting it. on the east coast it has been very hit mis this year .
Yeh we had the same for the past couple of years. Returned as near normal this year.
Okay that switch blade has a good low end. You might get away with a 140 which would be ideal but something tells me a 150 considering the winds. Plus 150 is the best one board combo. I'd take that info and contact John now. I pretty sure he enters earlier on this post find his email through that. Let us know. No BS drifting kite consider the reo. Def no bullsh1t in that direct kite. Envy is another worth looking at. Or an edge. Just joking on that last one. Lol.
Sorry for hi jacking again but borrowed a cardboard wave today and had a blast on it o what have i been missing all this time what a sweeet ride eppo i think you need to buy another one this is a great board . Dont get me wrong a soon as i can i will be demoing a mako until then this is going to do me at the moment . It is all that iam after at 65kg 11 meter kite 12-14 kn 2-4 ft wave slop , i was slash waves up so much i dont think any got to the beach not cut in half . yer ha 
ps dan dose know his stuff .many thanks
Yes the cardboard is indeed an excellent board and I'm glad you are stoked. I have vouched for this board for a long time now and it seems some crew are starting to see what it can offer. I can tell you I had no less than 12 emails in the first two days when I had it for sale.
The mako is a very different animal. The wave is very very surf board feel orientated. The mako has its own feel entirely. Its like nothing I've ridden before and I cannot compare it to any other board I've ridden. The wave really does cut, bite and slash. But riding back the other way takes a slight change in technique and this technique needs to be honed in big swell.
The mako rides back exactly as it rides forward so you could say it is more like a true TT. And yet in the surf it grips like a mother Farqer if you want real tight cutbacks, and yet come off the rail and it tracks flat so well. This serves to provide a real down the line experience not unlike a surfboard if powered up. I'd say the wave nips it at the post with regards to going toeside as it should with its profile. But only just.
But the mako can be ridden at intense speeds, and although rigid the concaved hull and rocker give it a very very smooth ride. This creates a great combo for boosting with the edge. Speed equals height in the end.
The wave is similar to a SB in that the interplay of rail, profile and fins means the board wants to be ridden in a certain way. The mako has a number of different dimensions to it. Subtle changes of pressure on rail and riding it flat produces a board that can grip or if you want skate or ride it flat and it tracks fast. Designed in Canada so its no surprise their is a bit of snowboard fell to it. It wants more front foot pressure and you get that what's the word, pressure on your back leg after a while like a snowboard gives you. I'm still finding stuff out about this board.
So it depends on what you are after.
I still would maintain though the mako is the best mutant TT I've had in the waves. Just outstanding.
Hey Eppo
I was looking at a mako a few years ago, but went with a hammer. I've since moved on. Is the mako power hungry ?
I'm feeling an urge for some boosts and surf when its below 1foot , no smooth water, Perth northern beaches.
Not as wind hungry as the Hammer that's for sure! But the hammer is a sweet board in its right power zone hey. Again very very different boards.
The hammer is really a TT with enough rocker and profile to surf well enough.
The mako has an entirely different feel altogether. You have to try one to see.
Power hungry? Give me your weight, kite sizes and wind ranges you rare talking about and the kite brand and type. Throw in the hammer as your benchmark and the other board you are using now.
Then I can present an argument that you can relate to. Some idiots at this stage go ' no man its not wind hungry', some stupid inane comment that provides as much information as their IQ.
Nah give us some info man.
As a pretext I'd say the mako needs to be ridden with a longer board than say the equivalent TT given the same conditions. This is to allow the rocker and concave hull to do its work. But its doesn't feel bigger underfoot, and the extra length gives you more control in the surf and chop I feel.
You kind of need to change your paradigm a bit hey. Like my 140 mako goes only slightly better than say the 132 monk I had. Well maybe a bit more earlier than I am pointing out. Especially if ridden in pure TT. But the rounded edges and rocker, hull etc it doesn't feel like a big board at all. If I said chuck yourself on a 14O monk you'd be like Farq off.
See a paradigm shift is needed, I know I needed one. Remember I bought the mako king, 165cm I thought Farq me this is too big man!! But it is not. I chuck down everything I do on a smaller board I even boost on this as much as the little board. I had no intention of buying another mako until I had this for a few months. Just one of those lucky breaks I suppose.
I'm actually contemplating a 130 as I am getting seriously addicted to height and what I can do up there on the edge. it is actually scaring me a bit to think what I'm considering.
But I gotta get in the Cauncy Animal zone as I call it! Lol.
currently riding a mulcoy 5'10" surfboard and a airush pro toy 132 with a 6, 8 & 10 noise's. wind range from 13-30knots, 75kg.
i like the protoy but looking for more a fun free ride board, that could pop a bit also.
looking for the 1 foot triggs to quinns down winder scenario. once its bigger than knee high i prefer the surfboard. riding powered up all session on a strapped board in waves is hard work, more like motor cross riding for me.
Yep then the 140 it is. Pm me mate, we can always meet and you can have a crack.
I'm the same weight, the 140 is spot on. It also can hold down the 9m edge in 25 to 27 knots as well!! Booooost.
But in the surf yeh it rocks. Yeh I get what you say about motor cross style I ride with an x motor cross dude, we keep pushing each other to the point where you are out of breath. Great fun man.
For instance now I've the boost, height and redirection dialled in on the edge, I'm starting throw in some stuff up there. Slowly slowly though, was just doing the one foot board off, rotating the board around etc, upside down horizontal etc, nothing special... I look over and he has the whole board off his feet, hanging upside down with the board facing the water,,,,he ate Sh1t. Funny as!
Hey Eppo, good to hear you've discovered the Mako. I've had one for years and commented on SB how well they went upwind some time ago.
I remember you being on the thread then. They're such a radically different looking board, until you ride them it's hard to imagine how smooth they are in the chop.
Now KSS is getting them in we might start seeing a few more around the beaches.
Wow - worlds longest review eppo - thanks for taking the time.
I have two OR boards, the Mako 140 from last year (did the rotto race on it) and an older 2005? 150x35 board. Both have the massive concave eppo discusses. The Mako 140 really rocks - pads and straps are sublime - it's my board of choice most of the time. I'm not able to boost it quite so brilliantly as eppo describes. It's good, but a stiff standard twin tip gives you that proper pop - the mako doesn't. I'm just a weekend warrior but I have an airush crossover that pops better than the Mako 140. Might just be my flawed technique but the mako holds its edge brilliantly and grips a wave face just like eppo describes, I just can't make it pop in the traditional way.
It's fast and brilliant up or down wind but what I love is the comfort - it's reassuring - it's like you are driving an Audi or a bmw - predictable and amazingly solid. I seriously recommend taking one out for a demo when the wa supplier gets them.
Oh, and if you ever get your hands on the older one I have, it is the damn fastest board I have ever ridden - and that includes the sector 50. The sector goes upwind better and uses the lift from the fins etc - but if you want just flat out ball breaking speed on a classic old Twinnie, get your hands on one.
Yeh longer a I'd have to agree with the pop factor. Been experimenting and there is technique involved ya right, more front foot pressure. Also you get more grip and pop I'm finding if you set it up as a mutant with some smaller side TT fins ( I'm using the 45mm cardboard rise fins).
Yeh my monk popped better. But in the ocean, the surf, it is chalk and cheese. We rode a monk, a older Naish TT( bloody nice board hey from 2006), and the mako swapping boards on the beach for four solid days. And this supports what you say. But I've nearly got it close. Again though in the actual surf and chop it is better by a much, greater degree than the pop difference. In the actual waves its not worth even comparing the three boards, the other two aren't in the same league. The ability to track flat down the line is something else. And the grip!
Went on a estuary down winder, so smooth in the flat man. Yeh I'm sold on these boards. Hope more crew get the chance soon to try one. For me the ultimate free riding ocean machine...so far
Yeh I also have heard about the older ski type ones. Heard they were extremely fast but lacked rail to rail ability in the surf. Only what I heard though.
G'day.
Thanks for all the Mako posts.
I've had a 144 airush hammer since I learnt to kite 3 yrs ago. I've used surfboards a lot, sometimes exclusively but as Eppo said another post I read recently; SB purists (particularly in Perth) can be a little blind to all that the kiting has to offer - especially when there are no waves and its choppy. Tonight at the beach, I put my new Reo and unstrapped SB #3 away and dug the hammer and my trusty w/man smoke (no bridle) out of the bottom of the van. I changed back into my wettie, pumped and launched and really had a blast in many ways. To my surprise, I probably had a better time than I'd had on the SB in cross onshore 4+' really lumpy & messy ocean swell. So thanks Eppo, you're right the SB is not always the bees knee and there's obviously more to enjoy... Anyway....
A mate (85kg 5"11'' - surfs, skates, snow boards, windsurfs is 40yr old and a is committed carving crustacean) is just starting out in perth (cottesloe) at the moment and is buying some gear (10m Reo, harness and board).
He's keen to get into surf orientated kitesurfing (with a SB) but will obviously benefit from learning with a twin tip and keeping himself open to other fun aspects of kiting with a TT in the great and happy years ahead. Being an old mate he's kept a keen eye on my progress and enjoyment of kiting and so he'd like to get a hammer (144). Hammers are hard to come by now. So I have a few questions:
1 How similar is the 148 CB Wave to the Hammer in handling and performance?
2 Can I recommend he gets Cardboard wave to start riding and rip into kiting as I have on my hammer?
3 Would the OR Mako/King be another suitable or better option?- I can only imagine that 18mm concave being a trip hazard for those learning heelside / toeside transitions when compared to the CB Wave's (or Hammer's) double concave / V.
Thank you
Pete
The hammer is a TT after all. easier to use per say than the wave. The hammer is a little wind hungry though which has its issues when learning. The hammer was great in the surf the time I rode it but the wave is much closer to a SB feel. But some moderation of technique is needed to ride the other way. Also it is a very rigid board.
The mako king lets say is very rigid but still very comfy and smooth. Also if you put smaller fins in the smaller Perth chop it is easier to learn on because it still sticks like glue. both the wave and the mako ride much better toe side. Also gybing onto your toes is just as easy with the wave as it is with the mako. The rocker and concave is not an issue so take that off your list. I throw the king around like its a much much smaller board. As the swell and ezperience increases then increase the size of the fins. I'd even go just centre fins when learning.
For versatility nothing beats the mako. Also it rides back the other way as well as the hammer with no change in technique whatsoever.
The king will plane earlier than both the others and yet can be held down in big winds to another advantage.
For actual wave riding I'd put the mako and wave very close in potential the hammer while and excellent board is just a TT after all that rocks in the surf.
Wave or mako for me and currently the mako over all as it is also an excellent flat water TT as well. Me I ride mutant even on the flat better to hold down a big edge for boosting on my edges and yet still so smooth. I run only 56 down the guys with 45 mm cardboard rise fins on the side. Could go smaller even on the sides but how many fins do I want!! The mako king also does not come with pads just a SB deck grip and can be ridden strapless so easy. I use pads though for comfort and take the back foot out in the surf to get my foot right over the fins. Perfect. Another versatile dimension. It is a remarkable board hey.
The 140 is insane. I'd love to try the 130 in nukin winds on my edges.
Yep mako king would be my choice then the wave then the hammer. All good boards though in their own right.
Oh yeh you can ride the mako faster than all the others it loves speed.
Know a SB rider who got on the mako and is getting one for those smaller swell days in summer (which means most of them he is waking up finally). Only a relative novice first time on the king he was riding strapless as he couldn't get his feet in the pads and straps and he did it with ease. And he has never ridden strapless before! he said this is the only TT he's consider getting and even in his short time he's been on a few. By the way I call anyone under three years a novice. So he's no slouch either. Awesome on a SB.
Hi Eppo,
Another great review as usual from you!
After reading you're review and many others describing this board I decided I'd take a chance and order a Mako King. Of course I prefer to try before I buy but as these boards are not stocked on the east coast I ordered my board direct from Ocean Rodeo. It arrived less than a week later. Not bad from the US.
Just had my first session on the board in TT mode and loved it. The most fun I've had kiting for a long time. The wind was around 17 kts gusting to 20 so I rigged my Ozone Edge 11m which seemed to be a good combo on the day. The board glides through the chop with ease and builds amazing speed. It an easy board to ride and points nicely up wind. I'm thinking about fitting some foot pads for comfort and will of course try in Mutant mode with different fin configurations to find what works best for me.
I cad can see myself getting another smaller Mako very soon.
Thanks for the recommendation.
Yeh they don't stock them in WA either but they will soon. I took a punt as well. A very good board combo with the edge hey!
Yeh I have pads on mine, even put a grab handle on it...but funny enough I'm thinking of going back to the just the surf grip and straps. I have a 140 anyhow and want to explore the strapless dimension of this board more, which you can even with straps on, if the straps are set with just a slight mutant stance. Gives you plenty of room for the back foot and front.
Personally not huge swell here ( der go figure, its perth in summer, der der der...) so I run the 56,s down the middle with some 50mm crazy fly wake fins on the side (real sharp ass fins). This does fine to grip on the wave as the boards rails grip anyhow!
If on the estuary flat I take the side fins out and just run as a TT, smooth as silk. Gives more slide ability.
Hey bought a crazy fly skim today, now that's a Sh1t load of fun hey. Was blowing only 8 to 13 and by the third run I was holding ground on my 11m edge! Just can't turn the bloody thing around without stopping, got watch some mark shinn vids!! Lol. I was in the ocean to, heaps of current and choppy ****. Can't wait to get it on the flat.
Yeh it's a great board and I'm glad ya stoked. I'm sure more crew will be on them in the future...or maybe not, we will see.
Thanks for all your thoughts, ideas and insights,
I'm a bit keen on these Makos now Eppo!
I'm punting I'd like a king but am interested in your thoughts. So at the risk of Paralysis by Analysis here goes...
I've riden the hammer 144x40 for 3 yrs and hammered it! It isn't broken at the moment but in spite of the old adage, it seems a good time to try another twin tip/ mutant to replace or provide a stable mate to the hammer. I think it would be especially good to be able to use the Mako in small sloppy cross onshore 15knot conditions which can be common here at times. Currently in these conditions I use a SB. The purpose of these sessions is just to get wet and have a bit of time to myself and practice strapless airs, tacks, kite tricks through transitions and piss about. Usually its worth it but staying up wind can be a drag especially if the tide is not assisting.
I like the sound of the mako because its very likely to be faster and more responsive / useful than the hammer in light wind. It would go up wind better than the hammer, its really versatile and still good for cracking big turns and will compliment my yogic seabird emulation program well. Big concaves are always fun. That its different is interesting itself.
Few others kite here so i've really limited access to different boards. I've riden a wainman Blunt 135 (big single concave) which was really fun and so light. It seemed much shorter than the hammer. Also a north Xride 136 which was fun too but not so locked in or good for carving. It was quicker, planed earlier and easy to ride. Ive also recently ridden a tricked out freestyle cabrinha - Blah!
Re: Give me your weight, kite sizes and wind ranges you rare talking about and the kite brand and type. Throw in the hammer as your benchmark and the other board you are using now.
I'm up to 73kg dry
I have a full quiver of 1.0 wainman kites (except the big mumma) really I only use the 7 and 9m.
The biggest I use is the 9m smoke as I find the Boss (12m) is frustrating to keep up wind in light airs. My 9 is pretty tired now so I've just picked up a 10M Reo which seems to have much the same bottom end as the smoke. If i'm to get a bigger kite I might possibly consider a 10M switch blade..
I'm not keen on kites over 10m.
I use PU surfboards mostly;
6'2"x19.25"x2.5" fishy floater for lightest air (pretty pointless really),
6'0x19"x2.25" fine pocket rocket which surfs well up to 4',
a black epoxy wainman surf series 5'7"x17"?x1.75"?
I just came across a 5'7"x19.25"x2.25" rusty magic door with 3" of nose ground off which will possibly knock out the fishy floater.
There is probably only a couple of knots between each board given the same sea conditions so using the smoke without a bridle on 22m lines i'd use:
the floater from 12-17knots
the pocket rocket from 14-20knots
the wainman surf series from 16-25knots
The hammer only comes out when I'm air starved or the sea is pretty un-organised and messy. I suppose it starts at 15 -17 knots and is a big hoot at 22-25knots on the smoke.
I always kite at surf beaches or reefs with cross onshore wind 50% of the time, Onshore 30% and cross or cross off 20% of the time. Essentially the land here is too hilly and moist for great wind conditions.
So, should I go the king (165x44) or 150 (150x40)?
I can see my largest kite, being a 9 or 10m is a bit limiting in this scenario but i'm staying at or under 10m. The boss might possibly be better suited to this type of board but I'd be trying line extensions on the smoke or Reo first. I'll still have the hammer for windier conditions.
Is there really much difference between the earlier models and the 2013 with the tucked rails? speed, turn initiation / rail grab, pop...
Thank you for all your feedback and inspiration.
Pete
Woh! Give me some time to read and reflect get back to you soon. hey nothing wrong with strapless in light winds on a SB awesome fun hey. Spend a lot of time with the sharks though. Lol.
righto! Firstly I'd still keep the hammer for crazy ass winds when the dogstyler in you come out.
Now it seems a quiver of SB's definetly suite your location, I'm jealous.
Now if you are looking at the 15 knotish winds even at 73 I'd go the king.
Remember it is still a TT overall and TT's are very inefficient in lighter winds. 20 knots is 3 to 4 times more powerful than 10 knots.
The king is versatile in that you can ride it strapless, or with straps or even put on straps and pads for more TT stuff. With just the surf straps you can still get out of the straps and go strapless and work on your strapless trick stuff.
Thing is the 150 is the sweetest sized mako. Perfect length, for the rocker and concave. But if you got the 150 it would be boss time at 15 knots.
Got a mate who uses the smoke and boss only. He cranks in lighter winds and he uses a stiff nobile 50, but has it on the upwind bridal settings and fastest turning speed. That kite has the bottom end of a 14m easy but turns real quick. I rate this kite.
From my experience the 10m reo would not have the same bottom end as the smoke. I ride with another guy who also has the 10m reo and been on both of these kites alot. This guy on the smoke weighs like 85kg and he's out and powered when I'm on my 11m edge! But a SB would minimise the preceptive difference being mroe efficient, get on TT and you will notice the difference, more. Both excellent kites.
The 150 would also some great riding 15 to 20 and even above on the 10m reo. You can edge this thing like you wouldnt believe. The 150 excels in the waves, more so than the 140.
it's a hard one actually. King and boss at 15 knots, 150 and smoke or reo 15 to 20. That's if you want to be lit, which is always my criteria. Bugger having to work to hard, more power, more power!
Honestly though I'd go the 150, keep your SB's strapless for real light winds or even get an efficient light wind board like a skim. 150 would be insane.
I need the 140 for heavy loading on the edge, hence the 140/king. if one board, the 150.
Wow thanks again for your thoughts and speedy response.
I looked up the dimensions of the hammer, its 144x42cm. If I were to get a 150X40 Mako I can't help but think it would be closer to a replacement board for the hammer.
The King is obviously going to work better in lighter airs but will always be a bit bigger, wider and heavier in comparison to the 150.
Thanks for the tips on the Boss. I do run the front bridles on the upwind setting and I'll check the rear ones (I'm pretty sure they're on fast). Essentially, that kite needs only 1 or 2 knots less wind than the 9. In light air, find it ridiculously hard work keeping up wind with it - even on my best performing up wind boards.
Essentially, in this discussion we're getting pretty close to making the most of not having enough wind. Kiting starts at 15 and is good from 20kn on. Whether I use a Mako or a surfboard turning down wind in 15knots (or less) is pretty tedious. As you say its hard work when compared to being lit up!
The hope the Mako offers is for better (or redeeming) up wind, a smooth ride, cut loose speed and air time in 15knots and sloppy slop. If I could get a few more effective and well activated knots over the Hammer it would be great. I figure I'd need the 45cm width of the king to do this. Then the question is how far off the fun of the 150 are you on the king? Also, how similar is the 150 going to be to the hammer?
These could well be the $500-$700+ question!
Alternatively, I can persist with the Magic Door and continue to keep an eye out for more and more surfboards (of which there are oodles) to service and refine this light wind situation. Its probably good for my skills but there is little relief from the hard work.
In the meanwhile, I should avoid getting suckered into pussy light wind days. Of course that may then mean missing out on the odd good one!! - Ah, Paralysed!! Too windy to surf & too light to kite and spending too much time worrying about it!
Thanks again for all your encouragement, support and advice. Its a good forum!
Pete
Yeh board and kite decisions can be tricky hey. I'd post this on kiteforum as heaps more Mako riders due to its international exposure. I'm reaching the end of my ability to inform here and starting to move into guess work hey.
The new skim board has opened up my eyes. I went down the sector and choptop light wind route and hated it. But I knew I needed an efficient board for anything under 15 knots. Now 11m edge only with shortened back lines 10 to 14 I'm lit and having fun riding as an absolute kook again! (Again\? some might say...lol).
The King i still an inefficient TT after all remember. Anything below 15 even on the boss might be hard work with current, waves etc. But would offer you that versatility in 15 to 20. especially on the 9 smoke or 10m reo. Yeh the 150 might indeed be close to the hammer, unless on flat water where as a TT only the 150 would outdo the hammer. But the 150 is meant to be a lot more looser and fun than the king...I know the 140 is...but I can still throw down quite a bit with the King and it is fun in the surf for sure and for boosting on the way out.
Yeh prob the king...or keep persisting with the SB's and get something like a crazy fly skim board if you dont want to go down the race board route, which I hated.
