Hi just interested to know if anyone else has had problmes with Liquiforce kites. Me and a mate bought 10 m Havocs a few months ago and they have been nothing but hassle - bladders popping, leashes breaking and rubber tubes joining lead edge to struts snapping.

We have written to LF about problems but would be interested to hear if anyone else has had similar woes..

I've been flying a 10m/14m Havoc combo and they've been amazing.
Only complaints that I have are a) quick release on chicken loop gets really hard to activate when the kite is powered up (I believe the hinged pin inside pushes outwards causing increased friction to the red slider piece) and b) premature wearing/fraying of the chicken loop/depower rope. I'm on my 2nd bar and it's only been since October.

I'm going to take some pics of the chicken loop/depower rope and send it, but I doubt they're warranty it.

Otherwise, no issues (knock on wood).

I've been riding havoc kites without any problems too. The chicken loop rope does visually wear very quickly but it is still very strong.

May

I'll post a pic of the depower rope, it's odd though, the one 1/2 that is fraying wildly is NOT the one that interacts with the cleat. It's about 4-5 cm above the bar and shouldn't be rubbing on anything.
I don't want to get stranded, so I switched bars, but am curious as to whether most riders would keep riding with it...

I've had the Liquid Force Havoc 2007 and 2008 kites which I use myself, as demo and for lessons. The 10m havoc is the most used kite out of the quiver. So far I have not had any problems with any of the bladders, leashes or the rubber hoses on any of the kites.
Did you buy them new? What year are they?
My advice would be if you purchased them new to take to Liquid Force dealer you purchased them of and explain what you were doing when these problems occured and they should be able to offer you some advice and solutions to the problems you have experienced.
Otherwise please feel free to send me an email with that information and I will see if I can help you out.

LF Kites - my experience with them.

I bought 3 LF kites in total -

1) M80 12m which was a great kite to fly but the chicken loop always came out and was lost in the waves.

The inside seam on the leading edge on one side of the centre strut tore open twice (the rip was over 60 cms long) You could hear the tearing and bladder exploding all the way down the beach. Everyone looked up is if to say "what the...?" The kite had not been over inflated on either occasion. Repairing it did not fix the problem for long. During the second repair ( I'm pretty annoyed at this stage) I noticed that the other side of the centre strut was potentially going to tear as well.

2) The M80 was replaced under warranty with a 12m 07 Havoc which I could not get use to. It was unstable, dropped out of the ski for no reason and there was no pressure on the bar so there was little control. I couldn't get use to it so sold it.

I had also purchased a LF 06 9m MIG but didn't take it out of it's bag for a few month (and voided the warranty because of the delay). It had been inflated 3 times to test it but it had not been flown - not even once - due to lack of wind. On the first inflation the bladder deflated - a seam in one corner had given way. When I pulled it out of it's wrapping I found tiny holes in the canopy. The canopy had also been torn by one of the plastic valve covers on the spider system. The lines had not been tuned properly. One of the inside lines was quite a bit longer than the other. Sooo - I have a LF 9m MIG that has never been used that has already had a bladder replacement, has 6 patches in the canopy and doesn't have any resale value.

That makes 3 LF kites and each one was a lemon.

I've lost hours of kiting time due to problems with LF kites and will never buy one again.

AH!

Theres your problem right there...its a LF!

hmm i fly hifis at the moment.. they really nice kites same wid havocs n that.. but i did find the one pump is a lil shady on hard crashes n often valves pop open.. quick fix tho is pull the black plastic bits off and cable tie them down like normal kites would have..

and with the bar aswell i saw the CL and the bit where the bar runs wears out quick and looks frayed but u can see its still strong and the wears more cosmetic than anything.the bar should be covered in warranty i hope if it dies b4 3 months.

Hello kathypacific.

Just curiously, did your bladder issues with the M80 occur in the surf or just in the sky?

I bought an M80 and apsolutely hatted it. On the other hand i am currently ridding a 2008 Havoc and I couldn't be happier with it. I have given the kite quite a bit a punishment already too and it isn't showing and signs of wear.

With the new Havoc bar, is it possible to replace the depower rope when it looks worn or do you have to replace the whole chickenloop?

On some bar systems, soaking the rope in candle wax helps to reduce friction and increase the life of the dyneema (this works way better when the rope is new and hasn't started fraying yet). Don't know how this would work with the cleat though.

If the depower rope is to be replaced, then, yes, the chicken loop assembly has to go as well. I've replaced mine due to the cleat wearing out, thus causing the depower rope to slip at the most inopportune time. (Looky here, I'm fully powered up when I don't wanna be... WHEEEE!!!)

The replacement kit comes complete with depower rope, chicky loop, cleat and donkey dick. Installation is purty straightforward until you get to the part where the depower rope has to go through the stopper ball twice. Grab yourself a beer, take a big gulp and proceed. Make sure there are no young kids about as you will be swearing a lot. Grab yourself another beer, repeat until done.

Select to expand quote

Grab yourself a beer, take a big gulp and proceed. Make sure there are no young kids about as you will be swearing a lot. Grab yourself another beer, repeat until done.

i made the mistake of thinking you can just pull the rope out.. i just pulled the rope out to put this big metal ring on for suicide.. rushed into it without thinking about how i should do it and it ended up being a few hours work getting the CL back onto the depower rope beer coffee and patience is what is required.

Got a 12m havoc a few months ago. so far no problems. Construction seems top notch.

2008 havocs (and 2007) quality and construction is excellent
Rarely a warranty situation at all

You need to treat your gear well to prolong its life. Wash in fresh water and dry after each use. 07/08 Liquid Force gear has been absolute top quality/performance. We have had no problems.

Hi James 01,

The problem with the M80 occured when I was laying out the lines - seconds after after pumping up the kite - twice. I could see it was eventually going to happen on the other side of the centre strut as well.

I've heard mixed reviews about Havocs - some luv 'em some hate 'em.

Rgds

James 01,

Just to add....

The construction of the Havocs is very good. I didn't have any problems with the standard of manufacture. I just couldn't get use to lack of bar pressure and found the kite hard to control.

But the MIG and the M80 must have been Monday or Friday kites.

The 08 Havoc is much improved and is my favourite kite of all time to date. 07 ones need some fine tuning and getting used to, but once you get the hang of it, it's a sweet kite and flies with little effort.

Select to expand quote

kathypacific said...

James 01,

Just to add....

The construction of the Havocs is very good. I didn't have any problems with the standard of manufacture. I just couldn't get use to lack of bar pressure and found the kite hard to control.

But the MIG and the M80 must have been Monday or Friday kites.

Hey Kathy,

That sucks about your M80. Fair enough if it popped in waves but exploding on the beach is ridiculas. I hope you recieved some sort of warranty.

Select to expand quote

Charl dv said...

Grab yourself a beer, take a big gulp and proceed. Make sure there are no young kids about as you will be swearing a lot. Grab yourself another beer, repeat until done.

i made the mistake of thinking you can just pull the rope out.. i just pulled the rope out to put this big metal ring on for suicide.. rushed into it without thinking about how i should do it and it ended up being a few hours work getting the CL back onto the depower rope beer coffee and patience is what is required.

Hey Charl dv,

Any chance you could explain your retrofit for riding suicide? Is this so you don't lose your kite if you accidently hit the chicken loop safety release?

Would defo be interested in your setup. Thanks

Got my repaired 07 Havoc 14m back a few days ago. Last month, the leading edge split open at the seam and the bladder exploded as I was about to launch it prior to the start of a session. I immediately contacted Padi Kotwall and Liquid Force fixed the kite under warranty. I had owned the kite for a little under 2 months when that happened.

Took the kite out for a session today. It was the first time I've used it since the repair was done. So far, so good... it flies just as well as it did before the blow-up.

The Havoc is my 4th LF kite. My first one was a Spectrum II, I didn't really get to use the kite that much as I switched to bows shortly thereafter. My second one was a 12m Assault which was pretty darn near indestructible (but the bar and lines were utter CR*P). I sold it to a newbie who was looking for a cheap kite to use and abuse. My 16m Assault 2 is still holding up pretty well after 9 months.

In terms of performance, I really like my Havoc - light bar pressure, fantastic boost, superb stability, quick turning (for a 14m) and the super-duper easy relaunch (if it crashes, just look at the thing and it practically relaunches by itself). However, after the blow-up, I do have my concerns but I won't let these get in the way of my enjoyment. If the kite doesn't hold up, the fellers at Liquid Force and Seabreeze will be hearing about it, that's for sure.

You wont be disappointed mate. The kite was fixed immediately under warranty, no questions asked . The Havoc is not known to have bladders problem. Had only one other with blown bladders in the entire 2007. But you should try the 08 Havoc mate As for bars, one really got to wash it in fresh water regularly like every weekend to prolong its life. This applies to all gear all brands. Leave it dry in salt water you are just asking for trouble. Happy winds!

Select to expand quote

caveman said...

Got my repaired 07 Havoc 14m back a few days ago. Last month, the leading edge split open at the seam and the bladder exploded as I was about to launch it prior to the start of a session. I immediately contacted Padi Kotwall and Liquid Force fixed the kite under warranty. I had owned the kite for a little under 2 months when that happened.

Took the kite out for a session today. It was the first time I've used it since the repair was done. So far, so good... it flies just as well as it did before the blow-up.

The Havoc is my 4th LF kite. My first one was a Spectrum II, I didn't really get to use the kite that much as I switched to bows shortly thereafter. My second one was a 12m Assault which was pretty darn near indestructible (but the bar and lines were utter CR*P). I sold it to a newbie who was looking for a cheap kite to use and abuse. My 16m Assault 2 is still holding up pretty well after 9 months.

In terms of performance, I really like my Havoc - light bar pressure, fantastic boost, superb stability, quick turning (for a 14m) and the super-duper easy relaunch (if it crashes, just look at the thing and it practically relaunches by itself). However, after the blow-up, I do have my concerns but I won't let these get in the way of my enjoyment. If the kite doesn't hold up, the fellers at Liquid Force and Seabreeze will be hearing about it, that's for sure.

Select to expand quote

GJ said...

Hey Charl dv,

Any chance you could explain your retrofit for riding suicide? Is this so you don't lose your kite if you accidently hit the chicken loop safety release?

Would defo be interested in your setup. Thanks

hey mate, what you do is you undo the ball and the knobby bit on the depower rope that runs through the cleat, pull it all apart, put a big metal ring through the line and let it rest against the chicken loop, push the line through the bar hole, through one side of the stopper, around the pully and through the other side of the stopper, then you push it through the bar hole again through the cleat and then re assemble the ball and knoby bit.. DO not do what i did and remove the CL from the rope as its near impossible to put back!

basically i did that so that i have a place to clip into for suicide as i hate that double depower BS and clipping to the chicken loop itself you run the risk of loosing everything by accidently hitting the QR and the hook gets iin the way and sometimes it gets stuck in my spreader hook.

Select to expand quote

Charl dv said...

GJ said...

Hey Charl dv,

Any chance you could explain your retrofit for riding suicide? Is this so you don't lose your kite if you accidently hit the chicken loop safety release?

Would defo be interested in your setup. Thanks

hey mate, what you do is you undo the ball and the knobby bit on the depower rope that runs through the cleat, pull it all apart, put a big metal ring through the line and let it rest against the chicken loop, push the line through the bar hole, through one side of the stopper, around the pully and through the other side of the stopper, then you push it through the bar hole again through the cleat and then re assemble the ball and knoby bit.. DO not do what i did and remove the CL from the rope as its near impossible to put back!

basically i did that so that i have a place to clip into for suicide as i hate that double depower BS and clipping to the chicken loop itself you run the risk of loosing everything by accidently hitting the QR and the hook gets iin the way and sometimes it gets stuck in my spreader hook.

Ah sweet, I'll give it a go when my kites arrive. I take it that the metal ring doesn't cause any problems as it sits between the cleat/chickenloop and the insert of the bar?

When I first read the title of this thread I was a bit concerned that I might blowing my hard earned $ on a bum kite. After 22 posts it seems that most of them have either been about other/older LF kites or just problems that are common to pretty much all kites. With the feedback that I've either read or heard elsewhere, I'm confident that the 08 Havocs are sick and that I'll be stoked on them.

Bring on delivery day

Select to expand quote

kathypacific said...

LF Kites - my experience with them.

I bought 3 LF kites in total -

1) M80 12m which was a great kite to fly but the chicken loop always came out and was lost in the waves.

The inside seam on the leading edge on one side of the centre strut tore open twice (the rip was over 60 cms long) You could hear the tearing and bladder exploding all the way down the beach. Everyone looked up is if to say "what the...?" The kite had not been over inflated on either occasion. Repairing it did not fix the problem for long. During the second repair ( I'm pretty annoyed at this stage) I noticed that the other side of the centre strut was potentially going to tear as well.

2) The M80 was replaced under warranty with a 12m 07 Havoc which I could not get use to. It was unstable, dropped out of the ski for no reason and there was no pressure on the bar so there was little control. I couldn't get use to it so sold it.

I had also purchased a LF 06 9m MIG but didn't take it out of it's bag for a few month (and voided the warranty because of the delay). It had been inflated 3 times to test it but it had not been flown - not even once - due to lack of wind. On the first inflation the bladder deflated - a seam in one corner had given way. When I pulled it out of it's wrapping I found tiny holes in the canopy. The canopy had also been torn by one of the plastic valve covers on the spider system. The lines had not been tuned properly. One of the inside lines was quite a bit longer than the other. Sooo - I have a LF 9m MIG that has never been used that has already had a bladder replacement, has 6 patches in the canopy and doesn't have any resale value.

That makes 3 LF kites and each one was a lemon.

I've lost hours of kiting time due to problems with LF kites and will never buy one again.

Sounds like you didn't have enough backline tension on the havoc... if it didnt steer well AND you say the bar pressure was too light... wow, there are so many people who have this SAAAAME problem

i ride a 08 hi-fi and the only thing i have found it to do wrong that when i crash it the valves for the spider inflation pop out, does any one else get this problem??

I too have had the valve pop out after a 1/2 kiteloop gone sour. My bad, but I didn't have the clips on the spider inflation system going to the struts so I had a nice swim. Not the kites fault, I'll take this one...

yup had the same problem.. rip those big black plastic things off and chuck cable ties on. works a treat.. if ound i just lost the hose clamps from hard crashes they pop loose n eventually fall off

Select to expand quote

Charl dv said...

yup had the same problem.. rip those big black plastic things off and chuck cable ties on. works a treat.. if ound i just lost the hose clamps from hard crashes they pop loose n eventually fall off

Lol buddy... are you mowing down the poor beachgoers with your kite?

I haven't had my hoseclamps fall off before

The clips that came with the 2008 kites are not designed for use during flight. They are purely for maintenance purpose only, and that's why they are in the accessory bag. If you wish to have permanent clips to stop the air flow when flying, you can get them at your local LF distributor. PM me if you cant source them.

OHH maintenance.. wooops well i dont mow down beach goers, id cry if my kite hit the beach like that! but i do try to mow down the occasional pole dancer

ah il have a word with jason at some point about that.. send him a LF recoil comp for me to try out i want to see how it compares to my Cesar and the 666 nobile before i buy a board/ sell mine