Yesterday we had another day of Light NE winds in Sydney, there were some locals that always kite as soon as there is anything like 8+ knots these guys are at the beach. Yesterday was no exception and I had promised to come along with a couple of big kites - Ozone Zephyrs. We rode from approx 3.45pm to approx 5.15pm. The graph showed winds peaked at 13 knots and went as low as 8 knots averaging about 10 knots.
When I got there several people were trying to get going with 12M kites and various sizes of board, the guys with the bigger boards were have moderate success, but they were all walking.
There was a guy on 17 Contra and another on an 18 2011 North Dyno, they seemed to be just staying upwind.
Pumped a 2011 Zephyr and loaned the 2010 to another local who had a large board. I used 5M line extensions, giving me a total of 29M, and the 2010 had 33's.
I was using a Nobile flying carpet, the guy on the Dyno was on a 2011 North Race and the guy on the 17 Contra, not sure maybe an Airush exile.
The only 2 kiters that went upwind and stayed upwind were myself and the guy on the Dyno, and were were almost exactly matched for power and upwind ability, although I did end up being the last on the water and when I finally came in just after sunset the Zephyr fell out of the sky due to not enough wind to park it.
This is the graph from Sydney Airport, we were kiting about 500-700M south and directly downwind of the wind meter.

My overal impression of the day was that it was fantastic to get out, it was great to be able to match race against a kite that I've been told "destroys" the Zephyrs, on a smaller TT board. My observation is that the 2011 Zephyr turns quicker and tighter than the Dyno and the 2010 Zephyr and I think thats why I was able to stay out and riding upwind well after the Dyno rider stopped. The Dyno is a good light wind kite, no denying that, but some of the hype around this kite and some other recent LW inflato kites is a bit OTT and "yesterday".
Amazing sunset again, uncrowded, very smooth conditions, I came off the water buzzing and full of energy and beautiful sunset images. This type of kiting may not appeal to some people, but it really makes me look forward to this time of year!

The guy I loaned the 2010 Zeph did not do so well, but he has never flown one before and his board was smaller than ours (Tahee 1.52x46). He did manage to stay upwind for a considerable length of time and was definitely impressed with the low down grunt the kite had and agreed that there is a certain technique to getting the most out of these large kites.

Maybe I was hearing things too, but I'm sure the North board was making a noise each time we passed close to each other?? Is that possible or a feature of these boards when they are ridden in light conditions?

Wind range and upwind ability not depend only on the kite and the board type. Depends to on the rider weight, lines lenght, fins lenght... and maybe the most important in this case, the rider level. In this case there is some important information missing to compare between the kites.

I's hard to believe that the guy on the Dyno 18 and the 2011 North LTD (big volume and big fins) couldn't go upwind much better than any other kite with a TT (even this kite could be the best on the market). Sure that the perfomance of a race board in light wind is MUCH better than any TT.

It seems that the only explanation for a TT beating upwind a race board in light wind is that the race board rider is a begginer (at least on a race board...).

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catalaussie said...

Wind range and upwind ability not depend only on the kite and the board type. Depends to on the rider weight, lines lenght, fins lenght... and maybe the most important in this case, the rider level. In this case there is some important information missing to compare between the kites.

Hmm, agree with you on most points, except, that I disagree that anything really important is missing from my observations.
To fill you in a bit more though, I'm 55yo, have been kitesurfing 12 yrs, was riding a TT 1.60x46 with 55mm fins. I already stated I had 5M extensions for a total of 29M lines. I sold the other rider 7M line extensions on the previous day, and I think they were fitted to the kite, but not sure.
Other rider has several years kitesurfing experience, can jibe his raceboard, and can ride it well enough to push it well upwind. It is a stock North race ltd afaik - http://www.northkites.com/public/content/products/boards/raceltd_2011/index_eng.html

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catalaussie said...
I's hard to believe that the guy on the Dyno 18 and the 2011 North LTD (big volume and big fins) couldn't go upwind much better than any other kite with a TT (even this kite could be the best on the market). Sure that the perfomance of a race board in light wind is MUCH better than any TT.

It seems that the only explanation for a TT beating upwind a race board in light wind is that the race board rider is a begginer (at least on a race board...).

My report is real, there were a dozen or so people around to witness what happened. We rode side by side for over an hour, some tacks I was upwind, others he was upwind. H went to the beach first and I kept riding for another 15mins or so, and my kite literally fell from the sky when I slowed down and stopped.

There is clearly a lot of hype around, and a lot of following the leader (witness the release of several 17/18M LW inflatos in the last 4 months!!) and I know for a fact that neither of the kites above (and strongly doubt that any of the other clones) have anywhere near the bottom end of the Flysurfer or Spleen foils, however I prefer inflatables, and so do many loyal North customers and now they have a decent option, BUT it does not destroy the Ozone Zephyr as has been claimed.

Well there are actually a few things missing.
-Your weight
-His weight

Come to think of it I get going earlier on my Nobile Flying Carpet before I can go on the Race board as well. Once up and running the race board beats my nobile upwinf though.
Just as the Dyno beats the Zeph upwind by a long way.

Please, don't take it as an attach. I did'nt doubt of your report, I only said that was hard to believe that a TT was beating a race board going upwind in light wind (independent on the gear used, being aproximately same size) and was thinking about an explanation for it.

With the new information you gave us, the weight could be an explanation, but it's possible too with your experience that your technique going upwind in your TT is GREAT! I told before that rider level it's really important, but not only for the race board rider.

The noise you heard from the race board was something as a whistle? I could heard this on my North LTD2010, especially with big fins but not normally in light wind. It seems to be air passing between the board an the water when you are going fast and not are a heavy wheight...

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Kitepower Australia said...

catalaussie said...

Wind range and upwind ability not depend only on the kite and the board type. Depends to on the rider weight, lines lenght, fins lenght... and maybe the most important in this case, the rider level. In this case there is some important information missing to compare between the kites.

Hmm, agree with you on most points, except, that I disagree that anything really important is missing from my observations.
To fill you in a bit more though, I'm 55yo, have been kitesurfing 12 yrs, was riding a TT 1.60x46 with 55mm fins. I already stated I had 5M extensions for a total of 29M lines. I sold the other rider 7M line extensions on the previous day, and I think they were fitted to the kite, but not sure.
Other rider has several years kitesurfing experience, can jibe his raceboard, and can ride it well enough to push it well upwind. It is a stock North race ltd afaik - http://www.northkites.com/public/content/products/boards/raceltd_2011/index_eng.html

catalaussie said...
I's hard to believe that the guy on the Dyno 18 and the 2011 North LTD (big volume and big fins) couldn't go upwind much better than any other kite with a TT (even this kite could be the best on the market). Sure that the perfomance of a race board in light wind is MUCH better than any TT.

It seems that the only explanation for a TT beating upwind a race board in light wind is that the race board rider is a begginer (at least on a race board...).

My report is real, there were a dozen or so people around to witness what happened. We rode side by side for over an hour, some tacks I was upwind, others he was upwind. H went to the beach first and I kept riding for another 15mins or so, and my kite literally fell from the sky when I slowed down and stopped.

There is clearly a lot of hype around, and a lot of following the leader (witness the release of several 17/18M LW inflatos in the last 4 months!!) and I know for a fact that neither of the kites above (and strongly doubt that any of the other clones) have anywhere near the bottom end of the Flysurfer or Spleen foils, however I prefer inflatables, and so do many loyal North customers and now they have a decent option, BUT it does not destroy the Ozone Zephyr as has been claimed.

I believe the report is real because I ride in the same spot with the same riders and Kitepower describe the scene perfectly, although I was not there that day.
Many thanks to Kitepower for the light wind chat in the first place because it is so helpful for me as a beginner /although I thought that I was becoming an intermediate until some of those regulars (at botany bay) on the 12M's saved me on more than 1 occasion during the kitemares. The guy on the 18 Dyno is also top guy and has helped me heaps too.
The boys at Kitepower have given me free advice from the start despite knowing that I intended to buy my first 3 kite quiver second-hand on seabreeze. Their advice has served me well and I sincerely doubt that Kitepowers report is wrong.

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nugs said...

Kitepower Australia said...

catalaussie said...

Wind range and upwind ability not depend only on the kite and the board type. Depends to on the rider weight, lines lenght, fins lenght... and maybe the most important in this case, the rider level. In this case there is some important information missing to compare between the kites.

Hmm, agree with you on most points, except, that I disagree that anything really important is missing from my observations.
To fill you in a bit more though, I'm 55yo, have been kitesurfing 12 yrs, was riding a TT 1.60x46 with 55mm fins. I already stated I had 5M extensions for a total of 29M lines. I sold the other rider 7M line extensions on the previous day, and I think they were fitted to the kite, but not sure.
Other rider has several years kitesurfing experience, can jibe his raceboard, and can ride it well enough to push it well upwind. It is a stock North race ltd afaik - http://www.northkites.com/public/content/products/boards/raceltd_2011/index_eng.html

catalaussie said...
I's hard to believe that the guy on the Dyno 18 and the 2011 North LTD (big volume and big fins) couldn't go upwind much better than any other kite with a TT (even this kite could be the best on the market). Sure that the perfomance of a race board in light wind is MUCH better than any TT.

It seems that the only explanation for a TT beating upwind a race board in light wind is that the race board rider is a begginer (at least on a race board...).

My report is real, there were a dozen or so people around to witness what happened. We rode side by side for over an hour, some tacks I was upwind, others he was upwind. H went to the beach first and I kept riding for another 15mins or so, and my kite literally fell from the sky when I slowed down and stopped.

There is clearly a lot of hype around, and a lot of following the leader (witness the release of several 17/18M LW inflatos in the last 4 months!!) and I know for a fact that neither of the kites above (and strongly doubt that any of the other clones) have anywhere near the bottom end of the Flysurfer or Spleen foils, however I prefer inflatables, and so do many loyal North customers and now they have a decent option, BUT it does not destroy the Ozone Zephyr as has been claimed.

I believe the report is real because I ride in the same spot with the same riders and Kitepower describe the scene perfectly, although I was not there that day.
Many thanks to Kitepower for the light wind chat in the first place because it is so helpful for me as a beginner /although I thought that I was becoming an intermediate until some of those regulars (at botany bay) on the 12M's saved me on more than 1 occasion during the kitemares. The guy on the 18 Dyno is also top guy and has helped me heaps too.
The boys at Kitepower have given me free advice from the start despite knowing that I intended to buy my first 3 kite quiver second-hand on seabreeze. Their advice has served me well and I sincerely doubt that Kitepowers report is wrong.

You have a lot to learn about the industry

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nugs said... Their advice has served me well and I sincerely doubt that Kitepowers report is wrong.

ha ha .its not your fault//

I am the kiter from the North Dyno & 2011 Race Board - just noticed this discussion!

This was a very interesting day - the last NE of the season on Botany Bay with many kiters out in the hope of one last ride. Ended up being the ultimate lightwind test and has been discussed a lot amongst us.

As said by Kitepower, for most of the time there were basically only two of us out able to stay upwind and having a good session - Nobil flycarpet with a 2011 Zephur and the 18m Dyno & 2011 Raceboard. Everyone else had to walk to stay upwind or simply couldn't get out - including some foils.

I was nicely powered when moving and the noise - was as 'catalaussie' says, was a whistle from the air going between the board and water. I had no trouble going up wind and neither did the chap from Kitepower. However, I had to time my jibes - if I stopped, there was a risk of stalling and loosing the kite to the water. If that happened - it would have been game over and a long float to shore, as I am not sure if I could have relaunched in such light wind.

What was more interesting was the ones that couldn't get up to where we were kiting. A very experienced kiter - avid lightwind kiter (and friend) on a 17m Contra & Slingshot Glide could go back & forth, but drifted downwind at times.

I probably kite lightwind more than anyone else in Sydney and own a lot of gear! It is great to see there are more and more options coming on the market.

I agree with everything said by Kitepower. I had given up on Ozone after their 2009 production. I loved the 2008 edge II, including particularly its low end and was so disappointed with the 2009, I sold all my old Ozones. After that day in May, I had another look at them and a few weeks ago brought the 2011 Edge 15 & 11m - and loving them - particularly with the race board. I still use and like my Dyno - think it is a great lightwind kite - if not the best :), but would revisit the Zephur if shopping again. Also there is now an Edge 17m - which would be worth a look. The main difference I find is the feel. I ride Rebel a lot too and the Dyno feels like a big Rebel and has a feel of raw power. Ozones I find, have less of this raw power feel, but are lighter, smoother, and rely on apparent wind more.

Anyone reading who is looking to start with more lightwind kiting - my advice is first get a dedicated lightwind board. This will make far more difference than changing the kite. There are plenty out there - Underground Dog Stella, Slingshot Glide, Nobil Flying Carpet, Raceboards etc. Raceboards are much harder to ride though.

It was a good day out! Thanks to the nice comments from nugs - its a great place to kite - good community where everyone looks out for each other.

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archie00 said...

I am the kiter from the North Dyno & 2011 Race Board - just noticed this discussion!

This was a very interesting day - the last NE of the season on Botany Bay with many kiters out in the hope of one last ride. Ended up being the ultimate lightwind test and has been discussed a lot amongst us.

As said by Kitepower, for most of the time there were basically only two of us out able to stay upwind and having a good session - Nobil flycarpet with a 2011 Zephur and the 18m Dyno & 2011 Raceboard. Everyone else had to walk to stay upwind or simply couldn't get out - including some foils.

I was nicely powered when moving and the noise - was as 'catalaussie' says, was a whistle from the air going between the board and water. I had no trouble going up wind and neither did the chap from Kitepower. However, I had to time my jibes - if I stopped, there was a risk of stalling and loosing the kite to the water. If that happened - it would have been game over and a long float to shore, as I am not sure if I could have relaunched in such light wind.

What was more interesting was the ones that couldn't get up to where we were kiting. A very experienced kiter - avid lightwind kiter (and friend) on a 17m Contra & Slingshot Glide could go back & forth, but drifted downwind at times.

I probably kite lightwind more than anyone else in Sydney and own a lot of gear! It is great to see there are more and more options coming on the market.

I agree with everything said by Kitepower. I had given up on Ozone after their 2009 production. I loved the 2008 edge II, including particularly its low end and was so disappointed with the 2009, I sold all my old Ozones. After that day in May, I had another look at them and a few weeks ago brought the 2011 Edge 15 & 11m - and loving them - particularly with the race board. I still use and like my Dyno - think it is a great lightwind kite - if not the best :), but would revisit the Zephur if shopping again. Also there is now an Edge 17m - which would be worth a look. The main difference I find is the feel. I ride Rebel a lot too and the Dyno feels like a big Rebel and has a feel of raw power. Ozones I find, have less of this raw power feel, but are lighter, smoother, and rely on apparent wind more.

Anyone reading who is looking to start with more lightwind kiting - my advice is first get a dedicated lightwind board. This will make far more difference than changing the kite. There are plenty out there - Underground Dog Stella, Slingshot Glide, Nobil Flying Carpet, Raceboards etc. Raceboards are much harder to ride though.

It was a good day out! Thanks to the nice comments from nugs - its a great place to kite - good community where everyone looks out for each other.

The Underground Stella is named after Adrian Ropers pet dog Stella, the board in not a dog, just wanted to clarify that for those not in the know like Archie00

Now there is a new Stella, the 2012 version, I was out riding it until well after sunset last night at Kurnell, powered by a 13M Ozone C4 in very light winds, when nothing else out there was able to get out the back. I was able to kite in giant long tacks from Towra to the wharf and back and the only time I had any issue was right at the end of my session in fading the light the wind dropped to below 10 knots, and I made a run for the beach where my car was parked. Ten minutes later the wind picked back up, but it was also quite dark by then.

To the haters and doubters, just check the results in the world racing championships, the Ozone Edges (and skilled Ozone team riders) are killing it.

Now the Reo's are here, demo's available at KP stores. Going to be an awesome year for Ozone and anyone riding them!!

Ozone, North, Spleene, Core, Cab... all make good light wind kites.
It really depends what you want to do in light winds with the gear and how light you want to go out.
you will never boost big or pop hard in 5-10knts thats for sure but you can have fun and do other things.

^^^^ Agree.

I have an Airush Lithium LW 13m and a Sector 60 and I go sailing on the river from about 8.5kn