Can anyone recommend a 12m (based on a 85kg rider in the 15 knot wind range using a TT) that:

Goes upwind;
Boosts well;
Doesn't turn like a B-double.

I've ridden the Takoon Chrono, 2011 LF Envy, Havoc and Wainman Boss, all of which have certain attributes I'm looking for, but not all of the above.

Thanks.

Give a 11.5 Griffin Argo a go ,pulls like a truck but still turns real nice,great for loops and boosting, cranks in 15-25.

13m 2011 Ozone Edge would exceed all of your criteria, and with a lot more panache than some of the lower aspect "trucks."

I don't want a large kite to pull like a truck; I want it to soar like an eagle. I want efficient power and range, not brute power that just pulls me downwind and gets overpowered easily.

When I was riding Switchblades I would often be out riding when guys on other kites could not get off the beach.

On one occasion I went out when a fairly experienced guy on another name brand said I would be swimming. I went out, rode upwind, did a few jumps. Had fun.

He and his mates could not even get planing or ride out of the shallows.

Another experienced rider turned up, put up her SB 12m and joined me riding and jumping and having fun.

To an extent the board makes more difference than the kite, and rider skill makes even more difference.

I know how to ride in light winds, have the right kind of board, and have the experience to see that there was a heap of wind out of the wind shadow on the beach.

Give a 12m Rally a try. I cant fault them and i am about your weight. As a matter of fact give as many different brands a go while your at it. I think we are all a little biast on here when it comes to that question so you will never know if you dont try before you buy. Good luck.

Pulls like a truck is a figure of speech,basically you want to go and try a delta bow ,Argo,Core,Rally and compare to a widespan bow,your widespan is gonna give you just as good upwind and lift but its not gonna be as nimble in the turns as a delta and isn't gonna relaunch as quick, try both and compare.

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djdojo said...

13m 2011 Ozone Edge would exceed all of your criteria, and with a lot more panache than some of the lower aspect "trucks."

I don't want a large kite to pull like a truck; I want it to soar like an eagle. I want efficient power and range, not brute power that just pulls me downwind and gets overpowered easily.

I hope your affiliation with SHQ as a shop rider hasn't biased your recommendation.... hahaha. Anyway, have you had a chance to demo offerings from other kite manufacturers in this category?

As radman4 points out high aspect vs low aspect is going to influence lift, turning speed etc. etc. The Edge looks like it has a similar profile to a Chrono which is not nimble at all (at least in the 12m size), nonetheless I would still be keen to give it a go.

make sure you try the new 12m XR2 and Rebel. They are sweet freeride kites

Hey IRW,

Just received the first 17m Light Wind Core XR2's and the new bars!

Very Excited. Review will be forth coming when winds are appropriate.

DM

X19 breaks all light light wind performance in 5-10knts no doubt.Foils cant be beaten in under 10knts with super light cloth.
the 16-18m sizes very nice are the Edge and Zephyr 17m, North Dyno and the XR 2 17m LW is you want something with more grunt for freestyle and boosting.

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iRideWainman said...

djdojo said...

13m 2011 Ozone Edge would exceed all of your criteria, and with a lot more panache than some of the lower aspect "trucks."

I don't want a large kite to pull like a truck; I want it to soar like an eagle. I want efficient power and range, not brute power that just pulls me downwind and gets overpowered easily.

I hope your affiliation with SHQ as a shop rider hasn't biased your recommendation.... hahaha. Anyway, have you had a chance to demo offerings from other kite manufacturers in this category?

Incidentally I was with Ozone before I was with SHQ, and in each case I chose the relationship based on the merits of the product (I'd have happily paid retail for my Ozones had they not wanted to sponsor me) and the business (SHQ have a new team and a new vision and I like it).

Back to the topic. I've demoed a few kites (Switchblade, rebel, evo, but not rally or argo)in the fairly grunty per square metre category and decided that that's not what I'm after. I prefer kites that respond well to subtle edging rather than needing large bar movement. Coming from switchblades to C4s I had to adjust a bit but I'm now enjoying a more intuitive relationship to my kites and board than I ever did with the switchies.

With windsurfing race sails, you use more square metres to get the same grunt as a beginner's sail, but you get more stability and range when you know how to use it. A similar thing seems true of higher aspect kites with a finer foil shape: they're not suited to beginners but in subtler hands will provide a wider performance range so long as you're willing to go up a size.

I'll be getting a 15m Edge to sit alongside my 12m and 9m C4s in the next little while. You're welcome to have a spin when I do.

Interestingly the topic says "light wind weapon," and 1st post says 15 knots, which for you are the same thing, but for others they are very different categories. Clearly at 85kg in Melbourne, 15knots won't require anything over 14m, and with a grunty kite you may get away with less. Light wind in the tropics means less speed and less air density so 17m beasts enter the equation.

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iRideWainman said...

Can anyone recommend a 12m (based on a 85kg rider in the 15 knot wind range using a TT) that:

Goes upwind;
Boosts well;
Doesn't turn like a B-double.

Id suggest that any kite that wont do what ur asking for (at least reasonably) shouldnt be on the market.
Im 10 kgs lighter but I havent been on anything bigger than a 10M for at least 2 seasons and I have had lots of great days at 15kts and below.

One hint for anyone out there being limited at their low end and not into big kites - test drive the Shinn King George.
I have hated every light wind board Ive ever tried - dead boring. But the King George is something else. Light, flexi, ridiculously smooth in chop & slop. Drives, tracks, loads & pops like a TT 1/2 its size.
(Ok lets say 2/3s it size - no-one rides 122's anymore)

on demo at all kite stores worth their salt...water

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djdojo said...

Interestingly the topic says "light wind weapon," and 1st post says 15 knots, which for you are the same thing, but for others they are very different categories. Clearly at 85kg in Melbourne, 15knots won't require anything over 14m, and with a grunty kite you may get away with less. Light wind in the tropics means less speed and less air density so 17m beasts enter the equation.

Yep I'm well aware that the term light kiting may refer to the sub 10 knot wind category where 17m LEI and foil kites enter the equation (but I think there's a million and one other activities you could be doing when the wind is that light). I typically wont bother with anything below 20 knots, unless I want to practice some unhooking. I think too many kiters suffer from St Kilda-syndrome where the only kite they own is a 12m, which sees them from 15-25+ knots. As I said, I'm interested in a kite that has a very specific wind range in the 15-20 knot range that is fun to fly etc., which isn't a 14 or 17m and doesn't require a Nobile magic carpet or a surfboard to get going. Anyway drop me an email when you get your Edge, I would still be stoked to try it as behemoth as it may be.

^^^

Will do, though it may be a month or so. The 15m will be for me in 10-16knots and is bigger than you're after but may give you a sense of the feel that the 13m will have.

If your looking to target 15-20 knots specifically and you want a kite thats quick,boosty and trucks upwind i'd also demo a 14 Park,its far from a widespan 14 and it rocks in anything from 12-20+,well worth the demo,most people that demo my one are blown away with how quick it is for a 14m.

Have you compared the Park to the RPM? They both kind of fit into that 'open C' category which some day isn't as grunty as a pure delta or bow, or some combination thereof... anyway will check it out, cheers

True its no Delta but for your target windrange it will definately make you grin,well worth a demo.