Hello all,

Did my homework but I need your assistance on my new kite set. I will be switching from Ozone Catalyst 2014 which I am not very satisfied from in terms of low end, and I am looking for something which will get me into freestyle/ wakestyle which is the style I like however without compromising the low end.

I am looking for a two kite quiver, 12m and 9m since I am 82kg.

The kites I am considering are the SS RPM/ North Dice/ Core GTS/ Airush Union. I would like a kite that has decent pull in low winds but at the same time be forgiving and sufficient to guide me into freestyle/ wakestyle world up to a decent level. Since I would like to use bindings at the future (if my progress is adequate) I want to make sure the low end will be sufficient for my kg at 15-16 knots since right now with the catalyst I am struggling at those knots with straps.

Thank you

George

Also have a look at the best TS, it's the funnest kite Iv ever used. Low end is mint too.

RPM'S are brilliant kites. Reliable, predictable and tough.

Thank you for your replies. Yes as far as i know the ts is a strong kite and the 2016 model will be interesting to see. How is the low end of the rpm? I know the rpm is a very good kkitebut how about its low end compared to the other ones?

My 14 rpm had similar bottom end to zephyrs.
Always riding in the same cond

How could that be possible if i may ask? Arent they completely different kites shape wise?

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prastis said..
How could that be possible if i may ask? Arent they completely different kites shape wise?

C kite... very powerful!

14 RPM has GRUNT! C KITE....

RPM is a hybrid c. c kites aren't known for their low end if i am correct. zephyr is not a c kite so the two cannot be compared in my opinion

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prastis said...
RPM is a hybrid c. c kites aren't known for their low end if i am correct. zephyr is not a c kite so the two cannot be compared in my opinion

A friend's 14 Rpm will get going in 10 knots, at 100 kegs with
the right board ..

C for ya self.. but overpowered at 18+ unlike a delta bow style
JUMBO 17 style kite.

2016 model? I hope it is as strong as you say cause I like the RPM. the only thing I wasn't sure about was its low end. thank you

The catalyst is a powerful kite , anything more c shaped will have less . What board are you using?

Hey and apologies for the delay. I am using blankforce enduro 137 x 41. Its a good and big board. I need to loose weight asap hahhaa. I like the idea of the c4 as well, but i am afraid its low end gonna be crap and i will need 3 kites to cover all ranges.

Bottom end issues with the catalyst are either your back lines are tuned too long, or technique. The kite rocks. It takes more skill to get the power out of it than out of simple pull-the-bar-in kook kites like switchblade, rebel and pivot. However, as your skills developed the cat will reward you in ways that the less subtle kites cannot.

Still, if you need more low end after working on technique, get a bigger kite. I'm 80kg and can only mow the lawn in 15-16 on my 12m Catalyst and twintip - but it's good fun on my Shinnster. If I really cared about riding a twinny in wind that light I'd get a Zephyr.

The wainmann gen 3 boss 12 mtr
Great kite , loads of settings which work great,
Vegas 11 another great kite
Core gts
All the above need to be activly flown but due to turn of speed they deliver power of bigger slower turning kites,
Played on the 12 cat and was massively disappointed compared to cats of 10 and below
If your a park it/ rider then rebel/edge/switchblade will give you that pull but can still be rode activly if your that rider

A few suggestions are really rubbish, sorry. RPM 14m, had one, I was able to get going in 10 knots yes, but on a Nugget and I am 70 kg and consider my light wind technique advanced
RPMs (I had various years incl. 2015 and doubt the 2016 will be significantly different) are not really extremely grunty. They feel rather grunty but don't mix this up with high bar pressure "perceived" gruntness.
GTS3 has less low end than the RPM. So if you are after good low end forget about this one or buy 1-2 sizes larger.
If I read your post correctly you are after a hybrid/bridled C kite which will allow you to work on wakestyle/freestyle tricks but at the same time be more forgiving and have a higher wind range than a pure C kite?
In that case as kemp said look at the TS as well. And at the Enduro. Or even the 2015 Catalyst, which is pretty much the Enduro's predecessor. The Enduro also lets you tweak the kite using the wave/freeride/freestyle settings which do make a difference.
While I am not a big fan of the Cat pre 2015 I agree with others, it is not per se a weak kite in terms of low end.
Another kite I have flown which is similar to the ones you are targeting is the FX. Not a bad kite either.
When looking at 12m purely in terms of low end I would probably rank them Enduro/TS, FX/RPM/Dice, GTS. Did not like the Union for various reasons but low end from memory is not too bad.
Cauncy the man wants to do some wakestyle. How is the Boss, Rebel, Edge or even Switchblade gonna help him achieving this goal?

My bad read the low end
However have you seen Chris Burke on the boss / wainmann
James boulding on the switchblade
Yo pud on the edges
The first 2 guys are top riders and arnt on specific kites

Guys thank you very much for your responses. Most people say great things about the enduro and I would love to give it a try at some point, its just i dont like the graphics at all this year from osone. Their design is very simple and dull with a single colour. I wish they would produce 2015 colour designs.

I have read in the past that the TS is a very aggresive kite that can accommodate freestyle etc. I also remember best having problem with their valves etc. so i would like to research their new ts before considering it. North dice was in my list for quite some time and still is but people hate north bars for a reason, but i love dice's red colour looks. People say good things about the fx but concerning their low end not that much. Core gts looks very promising but i am waiting fot gts4 this summer but still prices should be ridiculous.

One of my thoughts is to get a used 2015 c4 10m. The 10m will act as a 9m hybrid and i will be able to cover up to 26-27 knots easily at my current weight 84kg. This way i will see if i like c kites as well. In case i do, i can buy a 14 meter then and replace my 12m cata. The only thing that scares me is that c kites are pure freestyle kites and i may not be ready for them.

Although i am not really satisfied from my cata which as you said and most probably is my fault due to lines or technique i think the quality is very good.

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Fly on da wall said...

prastis said...
RPM is a hybrid c. c kites aren't known for their low end if i am correct. zephyr is not a c kite so the two cannot be compared in my opinion

A friend's 14 Rpm will get going in 10 knots, at 100 kegs with
the right board ..

C for ya self.. but overpowered at 18+ unlike a delta bow style
JUMBO 17 style kite.

It's possible cos I was doing it all the time over the last 3 years I had an rpm. (17m core before that) Riding underpowered in 11kn but staying up wind. Maxing out around 23kn. Same same.

Prastis, get a skilled and knowledgable rider to check the trim/line lengths on your catalysts - and get them to explain what they're doing - you may learn a lot and save some hassle. A rider who knows how a kite should trim will only take a few seconds to diagnose any issues.

Then, once trim issues are eliminated, have a good rider watch your low-end technique - how you're flying the kite, using the bar, and just as important, how you're putting load into the board. Subtle weight shifts and angle shifts of the board as you encounter gusts and chop can make a huge difference in low end performance.

Once trim/tuning and basic technique are accounted for, you're in a much better position to know your needs and what a given kite can be expected to do.

Happy learning.

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prastis said...
Guys thank you very much for your responses. Most people say great things about the enduro and I would love to give it a try at some point, its just i dont like the graphics at all this year from osone. Their design is very simple and dull with a single colour. I wish they would produce 2015 colour designs.

I have read in the past that the TS is a very aggresive kite that can accommodate freestyle etc. I also remember best having problem with their valves etc. so i would like to research their new ts before considering it. North dice was in my list for quite some time and still is but people hate north bars for a reason, but i love dice's red colour looks. People say good things about the fx but concerning their low end not that much. Core gts looks very promising but i am waiting fot gts4 this summer but still prices should be ridiculous.

One of my thoughts is to get a used 2015 c4 10m. The 10m will act as a 9m hybrid and i will be able to cover up to 26-27 knots easily at my current weight 84kg. This way i will see if i like c kites as well. In case i do, i can buy a 14 meter then and replace my 12m cata. The only thing that scares me is that c kites are pure freestyle kites and i may not be ready for them

Best had terrible valve trouble last year. They resolved the problem this year tho. I'm not sure why I got the red thumbs for suggesting the TS it's a sic kite. Have a read of my review on in.

I think there is few people that actually need a hardcore c kite. Iv been on c kites for a long time, but Iv moved away from them now. But in all honesty I can do everything on a TS that I could do on a C kite, same with the 2015 dice I used for a wile. Sure the pop isn't as big or and it doesn't slack as much but if your trying for your first wakestyle tricks, you can use most kites. ( except a rebel, I tried that, it will rip your arms off).

Every brand has there own freestyle crossover kite. I recommend buying what ever your shop stocks.

Ps. I ride best so I recommend the ts. If someone rides slingshot they would recommend rpm. Cabrinha, FX. LIquid force, envy. So on and so on.

kemp thank you very much for your reply. I have read in the past that TS is a very good kite that does freestyle very well. I have read your TS review, a very well written review. Since I am still learning load and pop etc. the logical action would be to stick with a hybrid c kite, and there are plenty of good options out there.

Regarding what everyone recommends based on what they are riding, its more than expected and logical, and that is why I am doing my thorough research and asking on forums.

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djdojo said..
Prastis, get a skilled and knowledgable rider to check the trim/line lengths on your catalysts - and get them to explain what they're doing - you may learn a lot and save some hassle. A rider who knows how a kite should trim will only take a few seconds to diagnose any issues.

Then, once trim issues are eliminated, have a good rider watch your low-end technique - how you're flying the kite, using the bar, and just as important, how you're putting load into the board. Subtle weight shifts and angle shifts of the board as you encounter gusts and chop can make a huge difference in low end performance.

Once trim/tuning and basic technique are accounted for, you're in a much better position to know your needs and what a given kite can be expected to do.

Happy learning.

djdojo thank you very much for your reply. What you are saying is very logical and checking my lines again was my priority for my next session. I will make sure to check and see if everything is okay. I will try to do the rest as well if I can get someone to help me out, I will try to research a bit more into it. ur right regarding reevaluating my needs after all these steps are done

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RussKraut said...
A few suggestions are really rubbish, sorry. RPM 14m, had one, I was able to get going in 10 knots yes, but on a Nugget and I am 70 kg and consider my light wind technique advanced
RPMs (I had various years incl. 2015 and doubt the 2016 will be significantly different) are not really extremely grunty. They feel rather grunty but don't mix this up with high bar pressure "perceived" gruntness.
GTS3 has less low end than the RPM. So if you are after good low end forget about this one or buy 1-2 sizes larger.
If I read your post correctly you are after a hybrid/bridled C kite which will allow you to work on wakestyle/freestyle tricks but at the same time be more forgiving and have a higher wind range than a pure C kite?
In that case as kemp said look at the TS as well. And at the Enduro. Or even the 2015 Catalyst, which is pretty much the Enduro's predecessor. The Enduro also lets you tweak the kite using the wave/freeride/freestyle settings which do make a difference.
While I am not a big fan of the Cat pre 2015 I agree with others, it is not per se a weak kite in terms of low end.
Another kite I have flown which is similar to the ones you are targeting is the FX. Not a bad kite either.
When looking at 12m purely in terms of low end I would probably rank them Enduro/TS, FX/RPM/Dice, GTS. Did not like the Union for various reasons but low end from memory is not too bad.
Cauncy the man wants to do some wakestyle. How is the Boss, Rebel, Edge or even Switchblade gonna help him achieving this goal?

If your gonna pick holes what the furk has a north nugget or blowjos shinnster got to do with wake style riding

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cauncy said..

RussKraut said...
A few suggestions are really rubbish, sorry. RPM 14m, had one, I was able to get going in 10 knots yes, but on a Nugget and I am 70 kg and consider my light wind technique advanced
RPMs (I had various years incl. 2015 and doubt the 2016 will be significantly different) are not really extremely grunty. They feel rather grunty but don't mix this up with high bar pressure "perceived" gruntness.
GTS3 has less low end than the RPM. So if you are after good low end forget about this one or buy 1-2 sizes larger.
If I read your post correctly you are after a hybrid/bridled C kite which will allow you to work on wakestyle/freestyle tricks but at the same time be more forgiving and have a higher wind range than a pure C kite?
In that case as kemp said look at the TS as well. And at the Enduro. Or even the 2015 Catalyst, which is pretty much the Enduro's predecessor. The Enduro also lets you tweak the kite using the wave/freeride/freestyle settings which do make a difference.
While I am not a big fan of the Cat pre 2015 I agree with others, it is not per se a weak kite in terms of low end.
Another kite I have flown which is similar to the ones you are targeting is the FX. Not a bad kite either.
When looking at 12m purely in terms of low end I would probably rank them Enduro/TS, FX/RPM/Dice, GTS. Did not like the Union for various reasons but low end from memory is not too bad.
Cauncy the man wants to do some wakestyle. How is the Boss, Rebel, Edge or even Switchblade gonna help him achieving this goal?

If your gonna pick holes what the furk has a north nugget or blowjos shinnster got to do with wake style riding

That has obviously nothing to do with wakestyle but was regarding someone else stating that a 14m RPM will work in 10 knots for a 100kg rider. The fact that some pro dudes ride crappy unsuitable kites does not really mean anything. Also, any top rider can do impressive stuff just using a towel and two lines. So what's a blowjob Shinnster?

Mate if you are after a good low and kite you should consider the North Evo..... I fly rebel, evo and envy and the evo is my fav by far very stable and big range....

Union 9/12

Wainmans have great low end, Core GTS3/4 rather poor, my 10,5 has better low end than my GTS 4 12m. Two very different kites though, Delta vs C'ish shaped.

Can do much more on my Wainman in low wind, sheet and go with lots of power doing nothing. Didnt have any issues doing basic freestyle and some unhooked on it. GTS i have to be aggressive to build speed and it tends to drop power very fast in low wind. It wants to go fast with lots of wind. A real beast to kite loop (according to my brother, I've yet to test that properly)

Take my words with a grain of salt though, I've only been kiting for a year.

+1 on the TS. You wouldn't think of it but it is actually a pretty awesome kite. Don't get any other North kite than the Vegas, the Dice is a terrible entry level "wakestyle" kite if you would even call it that. The Vegas does however have terrible low end. I would maybe suggest the Cab FX as well, IMO it is pretty similar to the Union which I also think is a pretty beast kite.

Edit: also check the Liquid Force Envy out. Its reasonably similar to the TS