Rider: 120kg,Level intermediate
Style: Freeriding, Surf
Weather: 15-25 knots
Build Quality: 8/10
Satisfaction: 8/10


My Comments:

Guys been looking at getting some new gear. Started back in 2005 on twin skin Peter Lynn Venoms had 13/15/19 meter, then got a couple of LEI around 2006/7 GK Sonic 11mtr and a Best waroo 13.
2008 due to work/family didnt really kite much but last year took it up again, now living in the Philippines while on a trip home to Melbourne pulled out my old gear, mainly used my old 19mtr venom with a few days on the Waroo.

Now I'm looking at getting some new gear, have looked in to just about every brand around but my biggest issue is sizes and build quality for more to the point bigger kites that are built for bigger guys.

So those of you out there that are 100kg+ I'd like to hear your thoughts on what you are using and more specifically if you have had experience with BEST TS 15/17Mtr compared to the OZONE Zephyr.
I'm leaning towards the following gear

BEST TS 13.5/15/17 mtr combo

But been reading up on OZONE Zephyr/Edge or Catalyst combo and thinking it might also be a good option???


Wind in Philippines where I go is from about 15-25kts, pending on the time of year, I've been riding a old AirRush Switch 150 but going to upgrade that to something a little more updated not fussed on brand but looking at SHINN/AXIS/CAB something around 145x44, also riding a couple of surfboards when I've been able to get in to some surf or on light wind days just to cruise around on.

Cheers

If build quality was an issue with any modern kite, I'd be surprised. There have been issues on the factory line like any product but it's been a long time since I've read of failures due to poor construction techniques. I think that's pretty much dialed in and will only get better... see Switch Labs post at KF.

Axis all the way! Go Vanguard or better yet, the Limited 140x43. You don't need to go huge with the board - the Limited is fast, planes quickly, tracks like a mother through chop and isn't that far behind my 170x50 in the upwind stakes but is a whole lot more fun. If you must have a 145x44, check out the Axis Ultra. It's also carbon fiber and is a great board, but the Limited is just better.

For the kites... demo demo demo. There are hordes of 17m+ kites around now. I'm sure you know, but things to look for, for us heavy riders, are how easy it is to deform the leading edge when loaded - say, jumping and looping. Big fat LE with good pressure is usually the solution for me...

I think your sizes are too close too. I'm thinking I could get away with 19m, 13, 10, 8 and cover all the wind it's sensible to ride in. For 15 to 25 knots I'd go 15 and 11 depending on the gear. That's assuming you're free-riding on a TT...

When it I say build quality more meaning built for bigger guys rather than big kite for small guys in light winds.
Demo kites in bigger sizes in Philippines not so easy biggest kite most shops have are 12mtr so would need to do it while in Oz but not around that much and now with wind being not so consistent makes it harder.
did try a Best TS 13.5 and Kahoona 13.5 back in January and really liked both of them Also tried a Cab SB but wind was not that good so didn't get a real feel for it.

will look at AXIS for sure it's up there on the list, along with OR Mako.
cheers

Yeah, I know the feeling - same problem here.

My theory is the bigger the leading edge, the better the kite will be for resisting folding and general unpleasantness. Tried a 14m Catalyst and the tips were constantly trying to fold and I pumped the hell out of it, knowing I'd be facing that problem - some designs just don't work for heavy duty riding. I think 3 struts are a bad idea too...

Mako is a whole other thing again

im riding at 104 pies at the mo ,, was considerably heavier last year .. (round 115)

currently riding the zephyr from 13 to 25 knotts with no issues at all ,,, still one of my fav kites !
riding the blade mist in an 11 (18 to 28 ) and a 7 (25 upwards) FREAKING great kites , no build issues with the kite at all no folding or anything , and thats giving them a pretty substantial workout .

as for boards im currently on the AXIS limited 138 and it holds me up no drama and is a really nice ride ,seems to float me better than my old tempo that was bigger board (140 x 43) ..

I'm around the 115 pies on a good day. I rate the Switchblades, have had them for years (since 2007) and recently modernised the quiver with a couple of 2014s (9m, 14m). They have lasted very well and have taken some abuse. For lighter wind I went for the Zephyr 2013 - really good kite, not as bullet proof as the Switchblades, but really nimble and nice handling.

On boards I still rate the Flysurfers, really well made and agile for their size (Flydoor and Flyradical) and i recently got a Mako which is really smooth in the chop. Am looking hard at a Slayer or Nugget next though to crack the directionals - have tried a few other SBs and they are just too hard for people like me with no surfing experience and when you have too many pies to get moving.

100 kegs.


Ozone edges 7,11,15,19 will cover you from 8 knots to over 30. For me these sizes are perfect. Ride a 136x44 monk , slalom board and raceboard

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Kamikuza said..There are hordes of 17m+ kites around now. I'm sure you know, but things to look for, for us heavy riders, are how easy it is to deform the leading edge when loaded - say, jumping and looping. Big fat LE with good pressure is usually the solution for me...

This is one of the most important things i've found as well. If my kite isn't pumped up hard, it'll fold every time and then become un-flyable. I dive the kite and it doesn't like it at all lol. Especially when its pushing towards 30knots.

Even on my 17m Argo with its 3 struts, i've never had a problem if its solid and i recall Puetz(?) mentioning he's had issues with 3 strut kites? My gauge says 11psi but i just keep pumping until the pump is a couple of pumps away from breaking. I figure the bladder can take more than the pump??

bridal configuration, the more supported the le the more distribution of load, the new zephyr 2013 has a mini bridle on the tips where the older one didn't, imo this helps induce the response from the backlines and helps with tip folding, as yet ive not had the new zeph fold compared to the edges and old zeph, a kite like the edge or zeph in its design will have a bigger chance of folding compared to a c shaped kite, if you take the time to study the kites design,

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cauncy said..

bridal configuration, the more supported the le the more distribution of load, the new zephyr 2013 has a mini bridle on the tips where the older one didn't, imo this helps induce the response from the backlines and helps with tip folding, as yet ive not had the new zeph fold compared to the edges and old zeph, a kite like the edge or zeph in its design will have a bigger chance of folding compared to a c shaped kite, if you take the time to study the kites design,

Bow kites tend to be more supported by bridles though, yeah? The only time I've folded the Crossbows is when I had only pumped them up half-assed. I wonder if the Edges would do as well... with the smaller diameter tubes.

The edges tend to fold a tad in marginal winds now and then which makes sence

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cauncy said..

bridal configuration, the more supported the le the more distribution of load, the new zephyr 2013 has a mini bridle on the tips where the older one didn't, imo this helps induce the response from the backlines and helps with tip folding, as yet ive not had the new zeph fold compared to the edges and old zeph, a kite like the edge or zeph in its design will have a bigger chance of folding compared to a c shaped kite, if you take the time to study the kites design,

..and the zephyr has a relatively large leading edge to, first thing big puetz noticed in Bali when I pumped it up and alas one of the few kites he couldn't fold.

... yes size matters but with strategic bridle placement it can be done, but there doesn't seem many I've come across that can.

Stability is a big issue with us big boys, a usually good kite is rubbish under a big guy when its either loaded up during a jump or even just edging hard. The LE would fold in the last quater around the bottom bridle area connection and this bending will completely upset the kites flight,,, like I said, feel like rubbish. The kites end up not delivering more forward power but more truck (down wind pull) but once the LE is "not" bent, forward lift comes back. This for a big guy is no good.

I'm a heavy dude too (120 - 125kg) and currently riding a 2013 Dyno 17m and Rebels which can hold up to me. The Rebel especially good at holding up to the weight/power but then again they don't have bridles. The Dyno does have a bridle and only in big power loads does it sort of bend but not too bad, not like a lot of other brands.

There is one exception to North that I came across and that is the Zephyr. Its LE is a little bigger by the other models in the Ozone range, Edge for example, and it seems to hold up very well indeed. The few times I tried it in strong winds not one bend or fold so it suits us big chaps well. It did how ever get a bit more bar pressure as the wind increased but to me it wasn't a problem.

One other way we as a user of the kite can sort of get around the bending LE and that is to pump up the LE to very high pressure but this has its downsides too, especially if your going to bang it in the drink when learning stuff. Splitting seams is worse so I don't like pumping kites too much.

Cheers,

Robbie!

Zephyr is probably your best bet for your big kite. I've ridden it next to the big TS' and rate it a bit better. I'm not big but I know a lot of 100kg+ guys that do and they are all stoked on it. It's a great all around kite and is renowned for it's low and high end. It also doesn't feel like a pig on the bar. But as Ricky said, consider a Switchblade quiver (maybe with the Contra). I ride these and low them. Switchblades, pound for pound, are one of the best kites for low end on the market. I also ride the Contra as my light wind freestyle kite and it's really nice.

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eppo said...

cauncy said..

bridal configuration, the more supported the le the more distribution of load, the new zephyr 2013 has a mini bridle on the tips where the older one didn't, imo this helps induce the response from the backlines and helps with tip folding, as yet ive not had the new zeph fold compared to the edges and old zeph, a kite like the edge or zeph in its design will have a bigger chance of folding compared to a c shaped kite, if you take the time to study the kites design,

..and the zephyr has a relatively large leading edge to, first thing big puetz noticed in Bali when I pumped it up and alas one of the few kites he couldn't fold.

The older zeph looked bigger in diameter than the newer model but you'd get a tad of fold when loaded,, puetzy a big f''''''er he'd fold most kites

It's a theory... thin-walled tube gets stronger with an increased diameter for the same thickness... doesn't it?

My 7-strut 2011 Crossbows are dead reliable, but they're heavy... and the other 5-strut Cab kites I've used have been fine but they all seem to have bigger LE than the competition.

I'm wondering if folding tips/lower quarter is related to how square the tips are...?

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cauncy said..

eppo said...

cauncy said..



bridal configuration, the more supported the le the more distribution of load, the new zephyr 2013 has a mini bridle on the tips where the older one didn't, imo this helps induce the response from the backlines and helps with tip folding, as yet ive not had the new zeph fold compared to the edges and old zeph, a kite like the edge or zeph in its design will have a bigger chance of folding compared to a c shaped kite, if you take the time to study the kites design,

..and the zephyr has a relatively large leading edge to, first thing big puetz noticed in Bali when I pumped it up and alas one of the few kites he couldn't fold.

The older zeph looked bigger in diameter than the newer model but you'd get a tad of fold when loaded,, puetzy a big f''''''er he'd fold most kites

... yes unfortunetely I folded the old Zeph way too easily. When I saw the newer Zeph first time LE looked a little bigger in the last quater to me, combined with short bridle length probably why it was stable under me.

Little list of kites I have folded (that I actually remember), some worse than others:

Cab Switch Blade 2006 & 2008
Best Kahoona 2010
North Rhino 2009
North Evo 2013
Epic Infinity
Core XR
Blade Fat Lady
Ozone Edge
Naish Fly
Naish Draft
Airush Flow
Slingshot RPM
Slingshot Turbine 2012

Some nice kites there just not for me or my weight and style. One of them was so bad I tried to talk to importer who came back to me saying not possible as the team riders couldn't get it to happen so must have been user error!!

Anyway, kites are getting so good now-a-days, only way your going to know for sure is for you to try, who knows your style might not show up any problems so all good!

Robbie

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Puetz said..
must have been user error!!

I bet he got a lot of red thumbs for that!

Little boys just don't understand, eh.

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Kamikuza said..

Puetz said..
must have been user error!!

I bet he got a lot of red thumbs for that!

Little boys just don't understand, eh.

wouldn't limit to the big guys, if your really aggressive with your kite and riding youll experience it

Tipping the scales at 100+ kegs I have found the Peter Lynn Fury 19m and 13m are good for the 12-22 knots that make up 80% of sessions.
(A 9m Gaastra Pure for 22+ knots)
They have range, durability, hang-time and have not a managed to fold one yet.......

Yeah I'd like to try them too, heard good things.

I am 105kg and never looked back when I got a Zephyr. Great for bigger guys. Great build quality. I have the 2012. Apparently the 2013 was a significant improvement but I have never tried it. If I don't pump it pretty hard it can fold though. If I pump it hard it is fine.

I also kite with smaller Switchblades and am happy with the combination with the Zephyr. Catalysts may be good too but I have not used them. The switchies have great low end while also good depower. Low end is very useful for bigger guys. I have heard some smaller people complain about the high power of the switchies. That has never been a negative for me. I haven't tried the contra but hear it may have more low end than the Zephyr. The great thing about the Zephyr is that it does not feel like as big a kite as it is and you can take it to 25 knots without endangering your life and better build quality than the switchies.

By contrast I demo'd a big airbrush zero light wind kite and it had much more low end than the Zephyr by a long way. However it started feeling a bit too powerful after 13knots. This is a true light wind kite. The Zephyr for a big guy is great from 15-25 knots - a different kite all together.

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winwil said..

... better build quality than the switchies.

By contrast I demo'd a big airbrush zero light wind kite and it had much more low end than the Zephyr by a long way. However it started feeling a bit too powerful after 13knots. This is a true light wind kite. The Zephyr for a big guy is great from 15-25 knots - a different kite all together.

Seriously? I call BS on the quality point. None of the Ozones I've seen recently have looked as polished with attention to details as the Cab kites.

The Zero was average - little bit more low end than my Flite but not enough to be useful, and the latter is much more useful and stable... no LE folding for a start. It got messy as the wind picked up, not too powerful.

15-25 knots will see me on my 13m or 10m XB... either your knots aren't the same as mine but there's no way I'd be interested in a 17m in 20 knots plus

Thanks for the responses guys, looks like I need to try to get hold of a new Zephyr for a test drive.

Daddy Cool, your the first guy I've heard to try the Peter Lynn Fury's, would be keen to know more about what you thought of them? I was a big fan of the PL Venoms and would be keen to know what the LEI's are like?

Cheers guys

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Kamikuza said..
Axis all the way! Go Vanguard or better yet, the Limited 140x43. You don't need to go huge with the board - the Limited is fast, planes quickly, tracks like a mother through chop and isn't that far behind my 170x50 in the upwind stakes but is a whole lot more fun. If you must have a 145x44, check out the Axis Ultra. It's also carbon fiber and is a great board, but the Limited is just better.

I recently bought the limited. I've dropped from a 144 to a 138. Absolutely love the board. Handles my weight in a snap. 102 kegs.

I've also bought a cab kite. Figure with my weight being pulled along need something well made and durable. So far so good.

Go the zephyr. . . . U will not be disappointed . . . Aftrr spending three hours today in 12 to 18 knots besides having a great time the zephyr was the difference. . . Im more than 120 kegs and no probs with zephyr maintaining shape

... video below is an example of the folding or bending I am talking about. Like I said, some kites are worse than others and I don't want to pick on any brand but this is what can happen under us big boys (or aggressive riders for that matter) so even doing a hard transistions can do it. (note as the kite shoots across the wind window the LE really bends)!

Robbie

Do you think we're better off using 5 or more strut kites puetz? My core GT has never had an any issues unless its under pumped but next summer I'm going to buy 3 or 4 new kites and it'd suck to drop 6/7k on kites and do my money. Would the XR3 cores fold I wonder.

4XL, have you been on an edge (19?) or just the zephyr?

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MDSXR6T said..

Do you think we're better off using 5 or more strut kites puetz? My core GT has never had an any issues unless its under pumped but next summer I'm going to buy 3 or 4 new kites and it'd suck to drop 6/7k on kites and do my money. Would the XR3 cores fold I wonder.

4XL, have you been on an edge (19?) or just the zephyr?

4 struts on my Flite 17 v1 and it's never folded or bent. The LE is as fat as my XB 16 though, if not fatter

That Flite looks way under inflated to me - some people are just too lazy to pump up a 17m properly

At 95kg and 1.95m the new chronos are it for me - they are super easy to fly and KILL any other kite below 15knots - the 18m sub 10 knots is JUST AMAZING - off coarse there is always a down side - the pain of bridles and launch/landinf in tight spots is way harder - but after a few 5/6 sessions its pretty easy = also dropping them is a 50% coin toss you won't get back up - getting back onto a inflatable after the chromo is like watching free to air TV - boring

they are also expensive but they are amazingly constructed and very very light kites.

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JohnnoKeys said..

At 95kg and 1.95m the new chronos are it for me - they are super easy to fly and KILL any other kite below 15knots - the 18m sub 10 knots is JUST AMAZING - off coarse there is always a down side - the pain of bridles and launch/landinf in tight spots is way harder - but after a few 5/6 sessions its pretty easy = also dropping them is a 50% coin toss you won't get back up - getting back onto a inflatable after the chromo is like watching free to air TV - boring

they are also expensive but they are amazingly constructed and very very light kites.

Those odds aren't good