Anyone ridden these kites back to back? I've heard some say they prefer the Razor over the Fuel, and it seems most prefer the Fuel over the Hadlow Pro, but it would be good to hear a few more opinions (biased or unbiased). Sorry if you're a Naish, North or Ozone pusher; would like to keep this discussion to the above kites! Cheers.

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iRideWainman said...

Anyone ridden these kites back to back? I've heard some say they prefer the Razor over the Fuel, and it seems most prefer the Fuel over the Hadlow Pro, but it would be good to hear a few more opinions (biased or unbiased). Sorry if you're a Naish, North or Ozone pusher; would like to keep this discussion to the above kites! Cheers.

Aren't you worried its going to mess up your username?

werent you riding hadlow id's? What happened there? And what happened to the rpms?

Wouldn't mind tryig the Razors. Think Charl rode them last year but reckons he kept getting worked over by them after crashing out...

What's the razor's bar pressure like?

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Big eeeZeee said...

werent you riding hadlow id's? What happened there? And what happened to the rpms?

Wouldn't mind tryig the Razors. Think Charl rode them last year but reckons he kept getting worked over by them after crashing out...

What's the razor's bar pressure like?

Still riding the Hadlow iD's; RPM's no more. Find that the 10m is too slow for looping though (to be expected i guess). Just love trying different kites eeeZee. Have ridden a Fuel, but was underpowered, so it was difficult to draw any conclusions -- what are you riding?

Someone overlapped an iD with an 11m Hadlow Pro (www.forcesix.com/hadlow-id-and-hadlow-pro-back-to-back.html), and that gives a bit more of a clue to why these kites are a little slower than expected, as the diameter is near identical to the 11m pro!

Also Bought myself a 9m Mutiny P-series, which is their 'freestyle' kite. The p boosts massive, loops nicely however the Flexi iD owns it in the unhooking department (the kite in my hands feels twitchy, and sucks you downwind and sometimes back-stalls by comparison). So I'm after a kite that loops, boosts and unhooks all as equally well as each other -- does such a kite exist?

Out of all those kites i would still pick the razor by a mile.
HP was a very aggressive kite, really performance orientated but really needed a lot of rider in put to get that performance out of it. It gave me the most slack out of the 3 but I just found having to put so much input into the kite to get the power was a bit annoying.
Fuel's i dont have much experience with but i always found the bar pressure to be very heavy in turns when i did have a ride on them. good kites though.

Razors are more forgiving than the HP but cant actively compare to the fuel conclusively. The big E was partially right in what he said, I only really got worked on the razors when i was riding them at the top of their unhooking range. kites are super easy to use for a C.

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iRideWainman said...
So I'm after a kite that loops, boosts and unhooks all as equally well as each other -- does such a kite exist?

There's ample video evidence that all of the kites you're considering and many that you aren't (for whatever reason?) will loop, boost and unhook perfectly well in the right hands.

It will ultimately be a question of feel, so demo demo demo. Hit me up for a spin on my C4s next time you see me, even if you're convinced they're not what you want. It's taken me a while to get the boosting dialled but I'm now getting higher than I ever did on my switchies and landing with ample control.

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iRideWainman said...

Big eeeZeee said...

werent you riding hadlow id's? What happened there? And what happened to the rpms?

Wouldn't mind tryig the Razors. Think Charl rode them last year but reckons he kept getting worked over by them after crashing out...

What's the razor's bar pressure like?

Still riding the Hadlow iD's; RPM's no more. Find that the 10m is too slow for looping though (to be expected i guess). Just love trying different kites eeeZee. Have ridden a Fuel, but was underpowered, so it was difficult to draw any conclusions -- what are you riding?

Someone overlapped an iD with an 11m Hadlow Pro (www.forcesix.com/hadlow-id-and-hadlow-pro-back-to-back.html), and that gives a bit more of a clue to why these kites are a little slower than expected, as the diameter is near identical to the 11m pro!

Also Bought myself a 9m Mutiny P-series, which is their 'freestyle' kite. The p boosts massive, loops nicely however the Flexi iD owns it in the unhooking department (the kite in my hands feels twitchy, and sucks you downwind and sometimes back-stalls by comparison). So I'm after a kite that loops, boosts and unhooks all as equally well as each other -- does such a kite exist?

I ride c4's and love them. Great for boosts, loops and unhooking. I wouldn't mind demoing the razor myself. Only thing holding me back from getting a proper C kite is I like a little more depower at the bar for those days that are cranking or gusty. It's reassuring knowing i have that depower at the bar (even if it's marginal) when out in a Lenten Stormjee! Also i think the relaunch would be better than any C as the mini bridle assists this. Oh, and also resale plays a factor in buying a proper C kite.

Anyone know what the Razor relaunch is like? Also, what's the depower like?

I've just bit the bullet and bought 2012 9&12 Razors.

Haven't had much time on the 12 yet so cant comment there.

9 is quick turning. It has 3 settings and I have it on the middle one. Haven't seen the need to use the fast setting yet. Has a really good wind range, and plenty of power when you want it and a long depower throw. (got the fusion bar)
I'm really a lawnmower guy, just getting into the surfboard. I'm riding a 5'10 naish gun and having a ball with the razor. I'm around 108 pies and have no trouble going upwind in around 15 knots. My twinny is a 4yo force matrix, 142 x 38. Had a sub 15 knot sesh at mullaloo last week and could almost hold ground (Few less pies would help !). Waiting on my new board to arrive to replace the matrix. Should match the Razor well.(Bought an OR JT Pro 138 x 42)

I have dropped it a couple of times and relaunch has been a breeze. Haven't been 'worked over' by the kite.. what ever that means !

Boosting is awesome.. not that I'm overly good at it. Smooth fast pull to start with, but not overly floaty jumps. Looking to try getting some bigger air when the missus gives me my nads back!

My previous 'all rounder' was a 2010 Torch, and although I still regard it as an awesome kite, the razor just felt like 'coming home' from the get go. Still have the torch and not planning on getting rid of it yet.It's a personal choice I guess...

If you see me on the beach hit me up for a ride on the Razor...... If you can get me off it that is!

'roast

Hey Lambroast, because the other two kites he mentioned are C kites I'm guessing he is talking about the Airush Razor
www.airush.com/blog/blog/2012-airush-razor-photo-gallery-and-videos

The new OR razor looks the goods for an all rounder though.

@IRW there is other true C kites (with battened wingtips) but since you wanted to keep this to the 3 that you mentioned I won't go there.

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Anyone know what the Razor relaunch is like? Also, what's the depower like?

relaunch is not instant like most modern kites, but is straight forward just pull a steering line and it will roll over. Not like old school C kites where you had to pull 5th line or swim at the kite to get the kite over onto its back.

it has heaps of depower, more than what you would expect. but you still get a yank when the kite hits the water.

I think you should definitely be sticking the Nirvana in your kites to try list, I'm pretty sure it ticks all those boxes. Haven't tried one myself, but used to ride HiFi Comps and I hear the Nirvana is even better. Would love to see what the C4, Torch and Razor are like, but it seems difficult to get no strings attached demos these days. Shops I've contacted previously in WA only tend to have the mainstream hybrid kites on demo if any at all. I personally am not going to splash $1500 to $2000 on another kite without demoing first as the marketing over sells the kite and you don't know what it is really like until you have tried it.

Some stores in Victoria like to pull the old "break it you bought" it number, or charge your credit card before you take the kite for a spin -- haven't they heard of business insurance? Sounds like a nice way of getting someone to pay full retail for a used kite...

sorry what i meant was just to be able to give a kite a try without having to buy it. i don't mind paying a credit card deposit. i think that is necessary for the shop to make sure it is returned. if i was completely stoked on the kite then it probably wouldn't be long before i returned to buy one. when i lived in the UK shops and dealers were always doing demo days to get their kites out there or even demo programs where you could get a kite posted to you to try out.

I'm not talking about a deposit, I was asked to pay for the full amount of the kite before they were willing to give it to me. Anyway, we are getting off track.

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chr15j said...

I think you should definitely be sticking the Nirvana in your kites to try list, I'm pretty sure it ticks all those boxes. Haven't tried one myself, but used to ride HiFi Comps and I hear the Nirvana is even better. Would love to see what the C4, Torch and Razor are like, but it seems difficult to get no strings attached demos these days. Shops I've contacted previously in WA only tend to have the mainstream hybrid kites on demo if any at all. I personally am not going to splash $1500 to $2000 on another kite without demoing first as the marketing over sells the kite and you don't know what it is really like until you have tried it.

AKS were pretty good with demo's. I had various combinations of kites for weeks. returned the favour by buying 3 of them

Could not find a demo of the razor, hadlows or any naish kite. Few shops do seem to take the approach of "sorry no demo just buy it"

Back on topic, I have flown 2011 7,9,13 hadlows and 7,11 fuels. found hadlows a little twitchy and much less depower than fuel if thats important to you. Both kites turn fast but fuel I felt needed more input to turn which I liked. Fuel felt like it had a larger unhooked range and relaunched slighly faster although both were pretty frustrating at the bottom end of the wind range.

Having a good unhooked wind range is nice. Definitely helps with progression. That's what really defines the wind range for me. Sure you can ride a kite in stronger winds and have a boosting session, but if you can't unhook comfortably I consider myself overpowered.

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tightlines said...

Hey Lambroast, because the other two kites he mentioned are C kites I'm guessing he is talking about the Airush Razor
www.airush.com/blog/blog/2012-airush-razor-photo-gallery-and-videos

The new OR razor looks the goods for an all rounder though.

@IRW there is other true C kites (with battened wingtips) but since you wanted to keep this to the 3 that you mentioned I won't go there.

Lol Thanks Kent.... Don't I look like a d*&k ! Airush Razor, Ocean Rodeo Razor...

For those who care I was talking about the Ocean Rodeo and not the Airush. Haven't ridden the Airush, but totally stoked with the OR....

Each to their own.......


'roast

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chr15j said...

I think you should definitely be sticking the Nirvana in your kites to try list, I'm pretty sure it ticks all those boxes. Haven't tried one myself, but used to ride HiFi Comps and I hear the Nirvana is even better. Would love to see what the C4, Torch and Razor are like, but it seems difficult to get no strings attached demos these days. Shops I've contacted previously in WA only tend to have the mainstream hybrid kites on demo if any at all. I personally am not going to splash $1500 to $2000 on another kite without demoing first as the marketing over sells the kite and you don't know what it is really like until you have tried it.

nope... its heavy and not that great. they still can't seem to up or improve the 2010 hifi comp. that kite was the absolute tits, can;t see how they haven't improved it instead of re designing and re designing once more to get no improvement... 2010 was the pick of the bunch by leaps and bounds that kite was out of control...

as to the original poster, i'm pretty sure that Airborne has a good demo of the airush razor available just go check with them, i cant see why you'd have issues with getting a demo.

if you're willing to expand your horizons dont hesitate to PM me for a demo of my best GP as i still think for all round usability, friendliness and versatility it takes the cake

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iRideWainman said...

I'm not talking about a deposit, I was asked to pay for the full amount of the kite before they were willing to give it to me. Anyway, we are getting off track.

I'm curious which shop. Admittedly I've only demo'd a few times from shops, but I've never once been asked for anything more than to leave some details behind.

Naming and shaming is against Seabreeze forum rules,and I'm not really sure what difference it makes, but suffice to say I didn't go ahead with the demo.

who sells Airush in VIC? Really would love to have a demo

The Zu has an 11m Razor on Demo. Made a decision, Fuel it is!

Enjoy your new toys, and perhaps a new log in name is in order?

Incidentally, as you were considering the razor, wouldn't you say that a loaded 5th line is simply a very long bridle?

Haha, considering I've ridden Flexifoil, Liquid Force and Slingshot since my first Rabbit's, I definitely thing something like that is in order.

And yes I agree, a 5th line that splits/branches out to multiple parts of the leading edge does offer support, as a bridle would (but probably not as much, as the majority of the load will still be on the front lines).

I am amazed how SS get away with just 4-lines though. The leading edge is pretty beefed up though; not quite sure what the compromise is, or if there is one (other than the safety argument)?

Maybe the compromise for a 4 line C kite is that you would need a larger diameter leading edge for the kite to hold its shape which might affect upwind performance and kite speed.
On the other hand, I notice on my Switch Combat that the fifth line is only active when you're edging really hard or if a big gust hits. Otherwise it it is pretty slack.

not wanting to hijack the thread, but anyone got comments on difference between the Razor v.s generator ?? Pro's and con's ??