Rider: 85kgs intermediate
Style: Downwinder, Freeriding, Surf - on a Twintip
Weather: 15-25 knots

Disclosure: (I'm a numpty and my taste in kites/boards sometimes goes against the popular choices )

Sooo.. anyone want to suggest an 8 or 9m grunty kite for downwinder freeriding and sideshore/onshore sloppy waves?

I ride TwinTips, so I like to have a fair bit of power through turns in waves.
There are plenty of good kites out there - but the obsession with pivot turning kites that have little power through the turn leaves me cold.

Have ridden the 2012 Airush Lithium 10m for a while and it was great - just a size too big. Great kite; power in turns, stable enough, drift, relaunch and good boosting. I'm pretty much after something similar in 8/9m equivalent.

I prefer 3 strut kite platforms that behave themselves.

I'm curious to compare Lithium against North Dice/Neo/Evo (who can keep up with their models??) and other kites/brands. Naish Park? Liquid Force Envy? Blade Trigger? Ozone Reo?

Must have good all round behaviour, low maintenance and power in turns. Upwind ability not really an issue as I almost always ride downwinders, good boosting always nice tho.

Cheers

Park powers in the loops and jumps big, the Dice drifts nicer though.

Few options i would recommend demoing are:
- Best TS
- Airush Varial X
- F-one Bandit...

Also 2014 lithium comes in 8m and 9m aswell

Ozone Catalyst will be better than REO for your twintip. The 2013s were fractionally more grunty than the 2014s, but the 2014s are smoother and have a slightly bigger range overall.

Hi Funky, I'm similar weight and similar style/use, the Wainman smoke 9 is a 3 strut, grunty allrounder, drifts very well,
Pretty good boost and bombproof, I'm still using the first model, 09, I did snap a bridle line last year after four years use but instead of replacing it I went for the direct four line no bridle setup which is an option, only downside to direct line setup is that it doesn't boost as well now and bar pressure a bit heavier.

Demo one and don't be shy of buying a second hand one.

I'm considering 2 kites for my main 10m kite. one for boostathon and one for waves.

So I'm thinking 10m edge and 10m dice.

The reality is you can't have your cake and eat it too.... ie great boosting and great wave riding. So you must compromise.
But what gives you the greatest joy? down the line in waves or boost factory?

For me I want both. Potentially more boosting that wave riding.

See if you can get a demo of a Neo 2014. Sounds like it would fit your requirements. 3 strut, behaves beautifully, particularly off the wind. Havent really done much boosting with it, but love it for down winders.

Thanks for the opinions fellas (good to see no sh!t slinging either)

Ok - just to clarify..

I like a fat-ish kite that sits back in the window ( but still manages a decent boost).
Yeh I know combining the boost/drift/stability is the holy grail. Well the 2012 Lithium did it, just my 10m was too big overall (sooo much low end!)

I don't throw down kiteloops, instead for me it's 90% downwind freeride in mushy waves but I do like to boost BIG and floaty.

I LOVE power through the turns (to the point most would feel they were almost pulled off the board) and it's a big seller for me, but about as popular as a pork chop these days.

Kite must have good stability (and be house trained ).

Have tried the Wainman 9m from 2 yrs ago, not really my cup o' tea but not a bad kite. Maybe it's evolved a bit?
Didn't like Best Kahuna one little bit (but supplied with very poor set up by shop)
Had an 10m Ozone Catalyst 2012 briefly. Very nice kite, but total pivot turns with zero power through the turns, and not for me. Very little low-end for 10m kite too.

Hmm.. time is always the enemy, so demoing (speshly this time of year) is tricky.

I guess finding something very similar to the Lithium 8/9m is the go, but if I had to gripe I'm not wild about the bar on the Airush.

Depends how aggressive a rider you are,
2013 vx
Bandit
Hadlow I'd
These would be worth a run

Select to expand quote

cauncy said...

Hadlow
These would be worth a run

UR obviously suffering from RCCDS Cancy??? (ie remote, crowdless, condition, disappreciation, syndrome)
OR else
"PLS EXPOYN" how a Hadlow suits Perth metro slop - on the wave .... woooahhh 200M downwind .... wheres that wave gone ...... Oh well lets just do a few wakestyle handle passes for the crowd & worry about getting home later

ps cauncyWhen RU going front for a SHINNSTER demo. You were the 1st cab off the rank that came to mind as I read the specs.Could have been called the Dongara Go To Board ? (im thinking)

The Catalyst was totally redesigned for 2013 and became much gruntier. Power through the turns on the 2013 and 14 is easily regulated with bar position and can be as grunty or mellow as you want (although not quite as smooth as the C4s, but hey it's a 3 strut freeride kite, not a 5 strut C). Completely different beast to the 2010-12 Cats which were not at all my cup of tea.

Select to expand quote

puppetonastring said...

cauncy said...

Hadlow
These would be worth a run

UR obviously suffering from RCCDS Cancy??? (ie remote, crowdless, condition, disappreciation, syndrome)
OR else
"PLS EXPOYN" how a Hadlow suits Perth metro slop - on the wave .... woooahhh 200M downwind .... wheres that wave gone ...... Oh well lets just do a few wakestyle handle passes for the crowd & worry about getting home later

The hadlow id is a completely different kite to the hadlow pro,

Select to expand quote

puppetonastring said...
ps cauncyWhen RU going front for a SHINNSTER demo. You were the 1st cab off the rank that came to mind as I read the specs.Could have been called the Dongara Go To Board ? (im thinking)

Still mastering the $30 kids skimboard, the turbo looks more my thing though

Hey djdojo,
Thanks for the tip. 2012 Cat was a good kite in most respects but was woefully gutless for it's size. Plenty of room for improvement on bottom end there for sure.
I guess I'd still have to go for the 10m model to fit my needs (85kgs - TT - 16-25kts).

Do the later Cats sit further back in the window and drift reasonably well? Upwind was very good on 2012 but not a feature I need or want.

er.. Naish Pivot? Maybe it's just a name but my pet peev about a lot of kites these days is the pivot turn (with no power through the turn radius and then flash across the window before powering again). Ha ha - not that I can afford a $2.5k kite anyway.

The 2013-14 Cats are more C-ish, and so will sit back a bit if you're on the right size (as opposed to riding too big a kite and sheeting out all the time) - won't sit as deep as a C4, but that's not what they're designed for. And yes, 10m for your criteria.

Drift - better than the C4s, but I haven't ridden a REO for a while so couldn't comment there, but any medium aspect three strut kite should drift pretty well.

Demo demo demo

Does anyone have an opinion on which kites generate more grunt through the turns (and possibly sit further back in the window when riding) out of:
2013 Cat 10m
2014 Cat 10m
and
2014 North Evo 9m?

Pretty tempted by these 3 (lol and Dice to be honest).

Cheers.

^^^^ Sent you a PM funky..

Naish Pivot. i have the 7, 9, 12 but only ridden the 7 so far. It impressed me enough to buy all 3. Great low down grunt, drifts amazing, boosts good with surprising hang time, light bar pressure and fast turning. Downer is the above the bar swivel. Satisfies my need for a combination of waves and free riding.

I've got a kite that I think you should try Funky.

Switch Element v3 Tighty?

As you know I wanted to like the v1 switches but was left utterly cold by the method (v1).

Never got to try the Element and imagine v3 has ironed out the kinks so I'm open to the idea. Just need a decent Southerly.

I noticed on the switch site the other day they are sold out virtually across the board so not sure if I can get hold of one, even if I likee likee.

You know eclipse kites well, so keen to know your thoughts on the closest available thing to my 09 Nanno. I'd be happy with a Nanno 9m style again (but a little better boosting) and a tinsy bit faster turn (but still powered through turns).

Cheers,

Funkster

Go the 2014 Evo - ticks all your boxes

I was actually thinking the Nitro 3, it's a lot different to the Method you tried.

I still love and usually fly Methods but I got a 10mtr Nitro 3 for playing around on the tt (and hopefully for things like the L2L and LOC if we get enough wind for a 10)
It is a great all rounder really well behaved and boosts insane, knowing what you like I am sure you would like it, it doesn't really sit back in the window though (which is a good thing as far as I am concerned).

Hopefully there is some wind not to far away and you can give it a try.

Switch element 3 sounds like its worth a punt at less than 800 for kite only for a 13 m.A Cataylyst or any other all rounder will probably be double that!

Hey funky, I got ripped off with the method v1 also. One of the worst kites ever IMO.
A lot of Sunniecoast downwinder riders like slingshots RPM's and Rally's. I know more guys on drifters down here but the RPM dude's here love them.
Riding into the wind the RPM hasn't a hope against the Rally, but on a long run, different story, depends what you're after.
Bandit's are awesome, but the trust is supposed to sit back further... Dice are awesome. Drifter's are sick, the OR prodigy is an awesome, sick kite, but more in the Rally mould. So much choice...
Maybe a bridled Fuel would do the trick?

Ok, so after much angsting, navel and crystal ball gazing.. I just bought an Evo 9m.

Sought many opinions etc and will follow up on evaluation when it (and some regular seabreezes) arrive.

Ta for opinions and balanced input folks. Have to say there is so much choice these days the decision just gets trickier each year.

If you are looking for a similar brief to mine, stay tuned for results.

Righto, a quick follow up.

So I ended up getting a 2014 9m North Evo after recommendations and advice from peeps who want similar things in a kite as I.

Have had bugger all chance to ride but finally got out on Thursday in less than epic conditions.

9m Evo, 22m lines - medium bar (on wider setting)
15-18kts (max) sideshore choppy waves.
151ch TT
I'm floating in at 88 kilopies at the mo.


OK, this kite has a very good bottom end. I was never under powered in 15kts. I did have to move the kite a bit at times but no teabagging.
Physically it is a big kite for a 9m. I'd say it was almost as big as the 2012 10m Lithium I had last year and similar bottom end.
I'm a tad concerned I may have gone a size too big and could have gotten away with an 8m. Likely in fact.

Early days and will follow up when I've ridden the kite in more typical 18-25

Ok, I liked this kite straight away.
It is intuitive, gives good feedback at the bar, stable and responsive.

It is smooth, powerful and has tight turns but powers through the turn. This is one of the must haves for me. I HATE kites that do not power through the turn.
Compared to my previous Lithium I'd say the Evo had a tiny flat spot of power as it reached the mid point of the turn but will wait until I'm lit on it to be sure.

This is a kite TT riders who like to crank through turns should try.
Park n ride floaty turning surfboard riders will most likely get pulled of an edge.

turning is responsive but (in the light winds) the kite felt a little heavier than the 3 strut kites I am used to riding. No where near as heavy as a Rebel though.

Boosting, especially for light winds, was excellent. I'm looking forward to really dialling in the timing on this kite (pretty easy so far tho) in cranking winds and can see myself getting a few nosebleeds.
I reckon in better winds the float and landing will be pretty deluxe.

Stability was pretty good. The Evo has some drift but will possibly drift better in higher winds also. Pretty sure it's going to drift as well as I expected it to and need it to.

Didn't try the relaunch (Hey it's the most exxy kite I've ever bought and didn't want to get it wet 1st time out!) but hearsay says it is good.

Comparisons? Well it's similar to the 2012 Rebel I tried a while back without feeling as heavy and 'stiff'. Bit more all rounder for sure and likely to be almost as good boosting but better in the surf etc. Upwind on the Evo is ok, not as good as rebel but not a factor for me on downwinders.

Compared to 2012 Lithium the Evo is a higher aspect but still feels medium aspect and grunty as fek. I much prefer the North bar but hope the placcy insert doesn't wear out. Bar feels nice in the hands but could be a tad softer with thicker padding. Stopper and customising options are good. I'd prefer straps over cleats any day tho. Chicken loop, quick release and donky is first rate.

Bar pressure is medium, prolly going to be on the slightly heavier side in decent winds.
I used the kite in stock settings all round, so medium back line attachment. You definitely feel the kite and feedback is good, but some users may need to go to the softer pressure setting. I have always ridden grunty kites and don't mind medium pressure at all. Perhaps in nuking winds I may want to change to lighter, time will tell.

Oh, I should ad that at full power in the 15 kt winds I did get a bit of back stall goin on. I will do a bit of checking but I'd say a tweak to the line settings will sort this out.

OK, so far so good. Can't wait for some decent winds and a chance to really flex this kites muscles. Woot!