Had a very good on line chat with a 2013 Rebel rider, was balanced an informative each putting their views forward regarding their choice of free ride kite...just wondering if anyone else can confirm/deny his observations below..some snippets...

I agree that the Edge has great hangtime and up wind ability, but compared to the 2013 Rebel the jump heights are very close, not much difference...........

The Rebel, however has much quicker and tighter turning making it substantially better for freestyle and wave riding. It's a matter of trade-offs and what's most important to you...............

Lastly, the Edge is a bear to relaunch..........

So Westozzy, what was the last model Rebel you have experience with ?

The reason I ask is because the last three models ( 2011, 2012, 2013 ) are very different from each other, with the 2013 being the most like an Edge and the 2011 being the least.........

I'm not real sure about the symantics between freestyle and freeride, but the only mode of sailing I would prefer the Edge to the 2013 Rebel is Racing......... which is well documented.

After that I'd say they are both great kites with the 2013 Rebel equal in Jumping and very close in hangtime, it's almost more a matter of rider skill than anything else.

But when it comes to bar responsiveness, turning and relaunchability I think most people would easily give the new Rebel the nod.........But remember we're compairing the best kites out there and like I said.....now-a-days it's more about trade-offs.......IMHO......The new Rebel has the least.......

As I said the 2013 Rebel is much more like the Edge than the older ones. Ken has made them flatter and faster and I think if you tried one you would be happy with the result. The 2013's have the kind of top end now like what you're talking about. I'm a small guy at 150lbs wet and this winter in Baja I was laughing out loud while riding a new 10m in 30+mph winds, getting scary air and enjoying the surrounding view from lofty heights…… normally I would have been on a 7m……….

I'm sure a good rider is going to adapt to the best attributes of his equipment……….With the 2013 Rebel you need less adapting.





Thoughts??

How do you both feel about the different control systems from either company? How do the depower, QR systems, and general bar characteristics fare?

Both systems are fine really I'm looking more for input on the actual kites performance. It intrigues me that this guy ( who has given well thought out and constructive responses) feels the 2013 is far more edge like. Just find that interesting and wondered if others have felt this.

that's all this post was about. Good to talk just plain kite performance talk that's all.

You do know that eppo is the sparring partner of John bones jones from the UFC!

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eppo said...
I'm sure everyone is waiting with baited breath on what your 5th post ever will say.

We might be waiting a while for that 5th post...

I would love it if someone could contribute to the qualities mentioned by the guys words above concerning the rebel. I had not picked up on these qualities from all the reviews and if there is some truth to what he has said ( and he seemed a really genuine guy with a very balanced point of view) it needs to be promoted. It was a great kite to start with, but from my perspective (someone who digs high aspect kites) then the new rebel is better than what has been put out there.

And this means that it will be perfect for some riders.

That's why we are here right....the help each other find the right gear for each other.

That's how I see it anyway.

2013 rebel riders let's hear from you.

ive given last years rebel and this years rebel a good run, although a nice kite i wouldnt compare them to the edges, they felt a very different ride not just my oppinion but the rebel owners commented on how smooth and fast the edge was in comparisson, personally i liked the older model i found the 2013 gutless back to back with the 2012, i know north dealers that carnt get their head around what north has done to the rebel and have changed their model of north to stock on these observations, i think the best people to comment are the rebel owners, a lot ive spoken to loved the 2011s,

I recently upgraded from the 2010 Rebel (12m) and found the most noticeable differences were

Increased upwind ability
Bigger wind range
Longer hang time

The kite doesn't feel as grunty as the older kites, I can still get going in light winds but the power isn't produced as fast as the older kites. This year's kite seems to rely on apparent wind more than the older kites to get their power .The top end of the wind range has increased which makes for some nice long jumps. I didn't notice any difference in jump heights. Overall I'm happy with the kite especially the extra hang time which also allows for softer landings. Never ridden an Edge so can't compare the two.

Thank Farq for that, now we are getting somewhere. Thought I was losing my mind earlier ( those who have just tuned in wont get what I'm talking about).

Okay that is good info ta man I will have to get on one and see for myself. The description you gave does qualify some of the what the guy in the original post said. Must be a flatter profile looking to develop power more through apparent wind. The increased upper wind range is welcome news for sure. It seems the kite has moved further along the spectrum to the edge side of things. Interesting, I can see though why older rebel riders might find they take a bit more getting used to.

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eppo said...
Thank Farq for that, now we are getting somewhere. Thought I was losing my mind earlier ( those who have just tuned in wont get what I'm talking about).

Okay that is good info ta man I will have to get on one and see for myself. The description you gave does qualify some of the what the guy in the original post said. Must be a flatter profile looking to develop power more through apparent wind. The increased upper wind range is welcome news for sure. It seems the kite has moved further along the spectrum to the edge side of things. Interesting, I can see though why older rebel riders might find they take a bit more getting used to.

Ok my first kite was a 2012 9m rebel and I purchased a 2013 7m rebel this year. I have noticed better upwind performance on the 2013 - it flies a little more forward in the window I reckon compared 2 my 2012 model. Although hard to compare the two due to differnt sizes I do reckon my 7m 2013 has a better wind range then my 2012 9 m rebel. I can't really talk bout hangtime as I have only started jumping. Sounds like 4 line v 5 will be the biggest differentiator between rebel and edge based on the above thread. Going to try out the rrd obsession, edge, rebel and liquidforrce nrg next year with upwind performance and boost/hang time as my main selection criteria. Will be interesting to see how it all goes.

Eppo good post given how strongly you have advocated the edge. That's what these forms are for - otherwise we would just be reading the product promo material and listening to manufacturers bullish!t. In addition, although opinions are a good source of info it proves how important it is to demo and judge performance against predefined performance criteria yourself.

Ya man. Yeh I love the edge for sure but I also rate quite a number of kites including the rebel included. Love the wainmens, dig the airush range, best make great kites to! Hey let us know how you find the NRG that's a special kite man I really want to demo it again as there is a guy I know who is thinking about changing to them.

For me it's about getting on as many kites as possible so when crew are looking for opinions ( and that's all they are, demo for sure ) at least you have some backing behind what you say.

Plus it's fun, get out there I say and enjoy! Do t get stuck on one kite then blindly claim nothing else is works because it may be perfect for someone else.

o.k, here's my 2 cents worth, have owned rebels since 2011, 5,7&9 2011, 6,8&10 2012, 6,8&10 2013, have also owned and or flown ozone reo, cat and edge since 2012.
Now i enjoy free-riding and going large, to keep this short and sweet,
My ability, confident.
I don't work for a shop or manufacturer, i have no family that does either, as an independant kite instructor i do have a great relationship with a shop..
2011 rebel, great allround kite, exciting boost & float, grunty,
2012, minor manufacturer changers, still a great allround kite, thought it had lost a little grunt but after riding it for a season i realised north had just smoothed the ride out,
2013, minor manufacturer changes, it cannot get any better as an allrounder imo, super smooth, improved wind range, big improvement in hangtime.
build quality, now i spend alot of time watching and looking at all brands of kites, if there is a kite out there that is made with better quality, i have'nt seen it yet but please please let me know, all brands now use countrys that allow cheap labour so its the design and material quality that becomes very important here, look at any kite after a years use then you can make an opinion,
Now, the Ozone Edge, this is a race kite i believe, even more so the 2013,
having flown it you soon realise this is an old school kite. I've only been flying since 2006 so the lack of de-power compared to "modern" kites, having to rely heavily on board edging is somewhat a strange experience, yes it go's upwind like a train, yes it generates lots of power, yes it has great hangtime.
To compare these 2 kites is'nt easy, 4 line against 5 line, turning speed........ all the normal opinions will surface, to compare them properly you need to own them both in the same size and spend lots of time on both, blah blah blah....
Now if the rebel has a build quality of 10/10, the edge has a 9/10 IMO,
Less effort to inflate the ozone,
canopy noise when sending the kite across the wind window at speed, North have just nailed the design and the kite just holds it shape second to none. IMO

In summary, the kites do similar things, both great kites but, one is a allrounder, one is a race kite, its mainly about what the riders abilty and interest in kiting is IMO. To say one goes bigger than the other, here's an idea, REDBULL big air comp in WA
And no i don't teach on rebels

Excellent, excellent work walks. Did I say excellent!

I also can relate to some of the points you made concerning the rebel is 2011 and 2012. The build quality is indeed fabulous (a little too over engineered in my humble opinion and yet this does work in its longevity favour).

Not so certain I agree with you about it being an old school kite that requires intense edging etc, this was one of the reasons I never did try one earlier on. The 2013 (all I can use as it is all I have ridden), it's very smooth, very controllable, very fast...yes it does have some 'old school' qualities of the kites I used back in the early 2000's, but the good aspects. The rebel also does share some of those to, but not as pronounced I agree.

Delineating the edge as a race kite and the Rebel as an allrounder...maybe we are moving into semantics here, but ...well I agree with the edge being a race kite for sure. But in the sizes 9 to 13, it becomes an almighty free-ride kite. But ultimately yes it is a high aspect race kite.

But I can't agree the rebel is an all-rounder. It is a brilliant free-ride kite. I wouldn't dream of unhooking a rebel, throwing down a loop (a proper loop) also as I have said I don't think it is particularly good in the surf either...it's okay.

An allrounder would be a wainmen or a catalyst or a lithuim etc...maybe even a Envy - wakestyle wise.

The rebel is a high aspect free-ride kite in my mind.

But compared to the edge...yeh probably more of an allrounder comparatively.

Great info walks, awesome.

Have to get on the 2013 rebel to see for myself, seems to have some edge qualities to it.

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the walks said...
o.k, here's my 2 cents worth, have owned rebels since 2011, 5,7&9 2011, 6,8&10 2012, 6,8&10 2013, have also owned and or flown ozone reo, cat and edge since 2012.
Now i enjoy free-riding and going large, to keep this short and sweet,
My ability, confident.
I don't work for a shop or manufacturer, i have no family that does either, as an independant kite instructor i do have a great relationship with a shop..
2011 rebel, great allround kite, exciting boost & float, grunty,
2012, minor manufacturer changers, still a great allround kite, thought it had lost a little grunt but after riding it for a season i realised north had just smoothed the ride out,
2013, minor manufacturer changes, it cannot get any better as an allrounder imo, super smooth, improved wind range, big improvement in hangtime.
build quality, now i spend alot of time watching and looking at all brands of kites, if there is a kite out there that is made with better quality, i have'nt seen it yet but please please let me know, all brands now use countrys that allow cheap labour so its the design and material quality that becomes very important here, look at any kite after a years use then you can make an opinion,
Now, the Ozone Edge, this is a race kite i believe, even more so the 2013,
having flown it you soon realise this is an old school kite. I've only been flying since 2006 so the lack of de-power compared to "modern" kites, having to rely heavily on board edging is somewhat a strange experience, yes it go's upwind like a train, yes it generates lots of power, yes it has great hangtime.
To compare these 2 kites is'nt easy, 4 line against 5 line, turning speed........ all the normal opinions will surface, to compare them properly you need to own them both in the same size and spend lots of time on both, blah blah blah....
Now if the rebel has a build quality of 10/10, the edge has a 9/10 IMO,
Less effort to inflate the ozone,
canopy noise when sending the kite across the wind window at speed, North have just nailed the design and the kite just holds it shape second to none. IMO

In summary, the kites do similar things, both great kites but, one is a allrounder, one is a race kite, its mainly about what the riders abilty and interest in kiting is IMO. To say one goes bigger than the other, here's an idea, REDBULL big air comp in WA
And no i don't teach on rebels

both kites are great in their upper wind range staying very stable and untwitchy, imo they are both superbly made but the edges are much more lightly built and dont like to be constantly spanked into the water where the rebels will take much more punishment, you can see they are more robustly manufactured with extra materials in the wear points, so if you crash your kites a bit its worth thinking about, the rebel is a faster turning kite but still has that little stall on the turn especially big carves and jumping transitions i found, had rebel riders say they hadnt noticed then seen it doing it from the beach, both pretty nice kites along with a few others, hey tony seen the weather for dongara

Yep agreed on the slight pivot stall for the rebel. Also had a rebel sitting side by side with an edge once and also an Airush lithuim. Rebel does indeed have a much more robust build. Adds weight though.

Seen the Dongora forecast....And cauncy, have I told you I hate you...

All valid points guys, on the plus side when it comes to build quality, the rebel will last longer for those guys who don't renew there kites regularly and the weight is not really an issue, its a faster turning kite
Interesting point about a stall in jumping transitions, one of my favourite moves, , can't say i've noticed it, i can only think there may be a slight hesitation in flying because the speed of feedback from bar to kite is probably why i love the rebel so much
And yes i hate you too Micheal, a month ago, yet again south beach rocked, far to long between visits

Although this post didn't start so well (the replies mentioned were deleted, ta Galah,)

has been a really constructive, civil and informative post. I just wish more were like this...then again we all need a laugh now and then.

In the end both the Rebel and the Edge (9-13m) are fantastic free-ride kites....

It really comes down to the overall 'feel' of the kite. The way in which power is delivered to the rider.

This is where having a decent ride, even over a few sessions is paramount.

Beanz I would highly recommend you put the Fuse in that list if upwind and big hang time is in your criteria.

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Mex said...
Beanz I would highly recommend you put the Fuse in that list if upwind and big hang time is in your criteria.

Thanks Mex - I will do that. My understanding is that it performs very similarly to a Rebel - but 4 line?

Yes you can use 4 or 5 lines (I use 4). I am not sure about this years model but in the past the Fuse cuts upwind a little better and is the biggest booster in North's range. I doubt that this has changed in the new models.

FML this subject again.

Dear or Dear!!

Eppo will never change. You need to find a new hobby that doesnt include a laptop mouse and a right click button.

Shame you feel this way, I have found the convo' really interesting and some things have come out about the new rebel that I hadn't read or noticed before. Also great for those free-riders and those who are looking for a free ride kite. Also those who want to know about what makes a good free-ride kite. The Fuse was chucked in to, which is a great kite as well.

It's talking and discussing kites mate, we all learn off each other.

Read the info' buddy, some of it is gold.

Your comments offer nothing, do nothing, contribute nothing are indeed pointless, but maybe you are okay with that?

Maybe you should use your mouse and right click button for a more positive reason.

Or just keep bagging those trying to share information. Your call.


This is what someone felt about this post and says it all...

Eppo good post given how strongly you have advocated the edge. That's what these forms are for - otherwise we would just be reading the product promo material and listening to manufacturers bullish!t. In addition, although opinions are a good source of info it proves how important it is to demo and judge performance against predefined performance criteria yourself.


So NoBs, have you ridden either of the kites mentioned or maybe you have an alternative to put forward?

Eppo = legend is his own lunchbox.

It's like the drivvle record is on repeat year after year.

Reveiws on rebels, how good are the edges and other topics that have been done over and over.

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NoBS said...
Eppo = legend is his own lunchbox.

It's like the drivvle record is on repeat year after year.

Reveiws on rebels, how good are the edges and other topics that have been done over and over.

Some truth in what you say above NoBs, can't argue with that.

But I still ask the question...what will you contribute? Apart from bagging someone involved in kite discussion.

I would also say that there have been some distinctions about the rebel came out through this discussion that I hadn't picked up on in the reviews etc of 2013.

Sorry for being enthusiastic about the sport and about gear. Some say over enthusiastic.

Here's an idea, don't read posts I set up...easy don't read them.

An give great advice for someone asking about kiting in Bali like you did earlier. Well done mate great info'.

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eppo said...

NoBS said...
Eppo = legend is his own lunchbox.

It's like the drivvle record is on repeat year after year.

Reveiws on rebels, how good are the edges and other topics that have been done over and over.

Some truth in what you say above NoBs, can't argue with that.

But I still ask the question...what will you contribute? Apart from bagging someone involved in kite discussion.

I would also say that there have been some distinctions about the rebel came out through this discussion that I hadn't picked up on in the reviews etc of 2013.

Sorry for being enthusiastic about the sport and about gear. Some say over enthusiastic.

Here's an idea, don't read posts I set up...easy don't read them.

An give great advice for someone asking about kiting in Bali like you did earlier. Well done mate great info'.

you only fine tune your posts in an effective way in order for other people to agree all the time. If someone has a go at you, you word your reply so it sounds like your the nicest guy ever in order to satisfy your ego of being mr knowledge here on SB. Been sitting back a long time just watching your repeated nonsense (5+years) and there is a distinct pattern.

Anyways enjoy your mouse button noteriety.. You have earned it Chris. Hows the multi level marketing going? Remember the pryamid schedme/ponzi scheme you were flogging a while back?

Whatever man...whatever. I just write as I see it, nothing fine tuned.

I honestly, from the bottom of my heart, have the best of intentions.

NoBs you obviously have an issue with me and that's fine, but I just question what you hope to serve to have a go at me and what I see (and others) as a really useful post.

What does having a go at me serve? What's the ultimate purpose of doing that.

How does that transmit information regarding kites performance and help people sift through all the choices they have?

I'm cool with you having your opinion, that's your call, but why? Why denigrate another person like that?

Man, just don't get it sorry.

I flew the 2013 rebel recently and it is chalk and cheese compared to the edge.
The rebel's depower is on/off, you can switch it off completely. Even edging hard shuts off it's power. The edge, the oposite. The harder you edge, the harder it goes!

The rebel isn't even close to the edge in terms of height and hangtime.

Yeh, the rebel turns faster and might relaunch quicker.

2 very different kites. Each will be appreciated by different riders.

For me, the Rebel felt like poo after flying edges all this season. horses for courses tho.