Someone not working for duotone.... pls write a review :) the 13 or the 15.

Someone with 5k to throw down.

What about someone from Ocean Rodeo.

Good Kite material still needs a good kite design.

I don't care who really, as long as they compare it to something else.....

We'll have a review and do a video hopefully soon, as soon as they show up! Been pestering to get one here to test for a couple of months now with no luck. Looking like another couple of weeks yet, but soon!

Been stoked with the Flite and Roam from OR. Keen to see how DT go with the Aluula, but have high hopes.

Surely by now.... someone has 1 !

7 months down track.... crickets. Im guessing there are better kites out there then.

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Adventure Sports Noosa said..
We'll have a review and do a video hopefully soon, as soon as they show up! Been pestering to get one here to test for a couple of months now with no luck. Looking like another couple of weeks yet, but soon!

Been stoked with the Flite and Roam from OR. Keen to see how DT go with the Aluula, but have high hopes.

You should get yaself a few walls and a roof while your at it may aswell be hocking stuff outa the back your car ala buzz kites style

You might get taken a little more seriously

Dont want to end up camping lake bankside panhandling and fossicking when the winds no good like i am

Just kidding sunrise beach has gone bull**** expensive sell up and move to seychelles can spread the word of the lord or whatever it is they do over there

Can't wait till Core brings out some game-changing material, coupled with their kite design, unstoppable. They need to come out soon though whilst I still have two kidneys in good working order. Ild hates to know the price when they do drop.

We have a 13m now available to demo, just not had the chance to take it out ourselves. The issue with getting a review mostly was getting the first Duotone deliveries for the season about 8 weeks late!

I have the 13 ..

...... well :)

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dachopper said..
...... well :)

Sorry , was just saying .. however . I have hung off as I'm a bit embarrassed that I have one :-)

I've probably had time to I'm think about it now and I know everyone is wondering what the hell?

Bit of background ; I'm an experienced kiter , like waves if I can and foil . 12 years kiting and 25 windsurfing .

Bear in mind our NT conditions . skinny light winds .We kite in mostly 10-15 kts , its on if its 17 .
But we kite a lot , probably more than most cause it's always warm especially now we have foils .
I ride jshapes cruzer foil most of the time and if we have a wave its 5'5 fish . We tend to use North / Duotone here . not really much opportunity to try other brands within reason and they seem good kites for here .

I was on the market for a kite around 12 to replace my old 12 2018 Neo. I ride a sls 9 neo a lot . Love that kite .
I had 2019 15 Juice which I used a lot for light wind foiling or surfboard . we have quite a bit of experience here with the juice , its a popular lightwind kite . Very capable in powered and light wind . Really enjoyed flying that kite.
The SLS kites are also popular and great kites although we are a little tentative about their build .
Neos very popular . grunt , with SLS they fly in very little , great turning and drift .

So it was choice between 12neo sls or 13 Juice normal or the DLab .
I am able to foot the bill for the dlab which intrigued me me , so I bought it thinking that it will cover both foil and surfboard as I knew it will drift . But still pretty much on spec .
There are a few of the latest Juices going here .. they have really impressed us so I felt confident that the design was going to be good let alone the hype about new materials .
Enough of my justification for buying it !

It's very stripped back . very clean and looks well built . Looks great pumped up . Aluula seems almost translucent .

I've had only 2 sessions on it , but we are in the doldrums at the moment .

First session on foil . about 10 -12 kts . Set up on middle setting . felt too powered on the beach ( I like to feel the kites switch off) so changed to the light setting , felt better
Like any juice it flies easily in light wind , slack steering lines but no backdown . I like this behaviour in a kite .

Through the air on the foil . effortless clean power , you can only just feel the kite . theres very little drag , a bit weird but good and a very solid frame . It doesn't budge .
But when turning , it comes alive and is very fluid .
Doesn't hunt the window ( I hate that ). Back a bit in the window , amazing . amazing apparent wind , I've never felt the building of speed like that before . very good speed through the air , feels slippery .
Anyone else who has flown the 15 from the shop has said the same .
It's also got a lot of grunt/ bottom end .Bit surprised .
I think heavier at the bar than my neo 9 sls ( in comparative terms ) but not overly and certainly even bar pressure through out . not spiky at all . Made me wonder how it would be in the top end but not really an issue for us .
Turns are very predictable , up loops powered and stable , good hang/ pause at the top while you gybe , downloops . really excellent , initiating the up stroke after downloop is excellent . lots of time for correction , I really liked that , for a biggish kite , it hung off and waited while you guide the board or rode a swell , then reacted when you wanted it. Juices tend to act like this anyway but this was better .

Had a bit more wind another session maybe 13 - 15 . same on foil then on sb. More loaded lines , so was able to get a sense of its turning . for a 13 its quick when you need it , pivots or arc turns really well . And drifts well also . not as well as neo but well enough .

The only concern I found . I fly 5th line to help with relaunch in light wind and for safety . was that it kinked in the centre when I pulled on the 5th to flip it on it's it's back before feeding up out of the water . I've checked pressures and pumped up more but I still think it will still do it . I need to test it more though , to give it better judgment, but it was a bit disconcerting as it was nearly impossible to get it out of the water , although I did in the end and worried about the kite giving out .
I don't think that the "normal" juices will do that but need to ask the boys . Might try oblique lines next time.

Apart from that bit of doubt .. and needing more time with it .. I think its going to be a great kite for me.
Is it worth the money over a 13 normal juice or an sls neo ? . I don't know as I haven't ridden them and it's early days with it . I take usually 10 or so rides to get tuned to a new kite .
I had the same question re SLS vs normal build but am now convinced that they perform better than the normal build , but time will tell with the dlab

So thats it for the moment folks ..

Cheers

Eddie

Thanks for sharing Eddie....


Two things for you, if it won't relaunch by pulling a tip, you can relaunch from leading edge down by pulling both back lines another meter ( sort of yank them and hold, not the bar, you actually need to pull the bar in , then reach as far as you can on the side lines , grab that and yank.) , it should reverse off the water, as soon as your 4 or 5 meters high dump one of the side lines and it will pivot right way up. Much faster than traditional and very effective in light air.

Secondly.... what do you think are the advantages vs the traditional juice 15 you used to ride...is the 13 dlab better on the foil at the bottom and top end?

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dachopper said..
Thanks for sharing Eddie....


Two things for you, if it won't relaunch by pulling a tip, you can relaunch from leading edge down by pulling both back lines another meter ( sort of yank them and hold, not the bar, you actually need to pull the bar in , then reach as far as you can on the side lines , grab that and yank.) , it should reverse off the water, as soon as your 4 or 5 meters high dump one of the side lines and it will pivot right way up. Much faster than traditional and very effective in light air.

Secondly.... what do you think are the advantages vs the traditional juice 15 you used to ride...is the 13 dlab better on the foil at the bottom and top end?

Cheers and thanks for the thoughts , it's interesting to share experience I think I have kited enough now to understand the variations but need to practice some other ones which I've not needed to perfect In this case

There is no way I could have relaunched by only pulling on a tip Usually , with this type of kite ( longer from tip to tip and a fair bit bow ) , not sure of the terminology) you can flip them nearly on their back with the 5th and them feed them out of water with a steering line , no problems .but in this case I was hindered by the kink . ( the kite forms a kinda flat W) which made it very difficult to relauanch .
I've never some across that although
Bomber tells me the Dynos did it . I struggled to unstick it from the water by reverse launch , so I reverted to the first method and got it out.
Might have to practice more and also try front bridle and opposite steering line. Normally when I get a new kite I have a play with variations of relaunch but I was too keen to go for a kite. More learning to do.

On the positive and more important side , it is absolutely a much better kite than my 2019 15 juice .. I felt it was a work in progress but still really liked the kite ..

Bomber and I went out the other day and he was on the 15 dlab while I was on the 13 dlab. He also has a 2020 13 juice.
We compared notes and agreed both were way better kites than our earlier juices. Much more refined , more controlled grunt and better delivery. They fly beautifully.
Bottom end certainly better and I expect the top end to be good but haven't tested it.

Advantages . over my 15, much smoother delivery of power , more even and better turning ability , better drift, speed , apparent wind . over Bombers 13 . I've only flown it once but . the new kite is just a much more refined and complete package.
We both agreed that they are excellent kites and better kites than the other juices.
cheers.

Found a couple newish reviews here:



Seems they echo the relaunch issues.

I can only speak from my experience with the allula Roam
14% lighter than the dlab
27% cheaper than the dlab
easy as to relaunch

I can pretty much fly the kite in as low winds you can fly any kite in ( including foil kites ) went out yesterday - left home when the average was 7 kts slowly trending upwards, got to the beach and the bottom dropped out completely to 4 kt average, 2.5 kt lulls, 6 - 7 kt peaks. They were the type of lulls where the kite just falls directly down and lines become untensioned No kite was able to sit happily in the sky ( there was a 17 Ultra, and about 4 or 5 race kites between 13 meters up to about the 19/ 20 meter mark). Tried my Dyno 18 meter, and it was hard work keeping it airborne, switched to the 12 roam, and while it was easier to fly.... nothing was flying well in the lulls. I think, kiting would have been possible had I tried in the peaks, but the conditions were quite bad, packed beach and directly on shore breeze.

For the 12, I think the "useable" flying bottom end is probably about that 5/6 kt mark, 7/8 kts and your flying around the track on a foil and the kite is rock steady

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dachopper said..
Found a couple newish reviews here:

Seems they echo the relaunch issues.

I can only speak from my experience with the allula Roam
14% lighter than the dlab
27% cheaper than the dlab
easy as to relaunch

I can pretty much fly the kite in as low winds you can fly any kite in ( including foil kites ) went out yesterday - left home when the average was 7 kts slowly trending upwards, got to the beach and the bottom dropped out completely to 4 kt average, 2.5 kt lulls, 6 - 7 kt peaks. They were the type of lulls where the kite just falls directly down and lines become untensioned No kite was able to sit happily in the sky ( there was a 17 Ultra, and about 4 or 5 race kites between 13 meters up to about the 19/ 20 meter mark). Tried my Dyno 18 meter, and it was hard work keeping it airborne, switched to the 12 roam, and while it was easier to fly.... nothing was flying well in the lulls. I think, kiting would have been possible had I tried in the peaks, but the conditions were quite bad, packed beach and directly on shore breeze.

For the 12, I think the "useable" flying bottom end is probably about that 5/6 kt mark, 7/8 kts and your flying around the track on a foil and the kite is rock steady

Yep , they sound like good kites absolutely , as is this kite.
I think quoting kts they fly in is not really relevant , same for me as above .. as air density has a big effect. IE the difference between 10 kts in Darwin and Wa is enormous. my guess after kiting for while in different places is 10-15%.

It's more about useful time in the air where you kite doing your thing. Cost . I just checked the roam price at Kitepower and I paid a bit more than their price but nowhere near 27% more.
Weight is the only figure which has to be correct. I'm really looking forward to getting out on it and getting to know it more!

I see this air density thing get bandied about abit ohh the winds colder so its stronger and more punchy.

Altitude actually plays a huge part but kiters are all mostly at sea level so if your kiteing in the himalayas the thinner air means **** stalls way easier and steering input needs to be less etc etc

From my real world experience unless im wearing a flipping 5mm wetty boardshort wind is boardshort wind.

And yes i know the science between airmass and blah blah but honestly if your at the beach in boardys its wind and wind is wind

Unfortunately everything showed up way too late to get any videos done before the peak of summer this year, and most of it was in such short supply it went straight out the door. Not much point making a video on a kite if we don't have any to sell!

Pretty sure George is out on it right now, will see if we can get a proper writeup out of him soon. Been using it for a few lessons too, always a good way to really put a new kite to the test.

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vodka said..

Dont want to end up camping lake bankside panhandling and fossicking when the winds no good like i am

Just kidding sunrise beach has gone bull**** expensive sell up and move to seychelles can spread the word of the lord or whatever it is they do over there

Don't worry been thinking about it! Time to take up the kite nomad lifestyle maybe?

Have used the 13m & 15m both now, back to back with the original Juice, and got a few locals riding them too. Really impressed overall, first couple of sessions it took a bit to adjust as it's actually quite different, but really loving it.

Super fast and powerful. Gets going very quick, the thinner LE and stiff canopy seems to absolutely fly. Some smaller riders are finding they need to change their riding a bit as they build too much speed too quickly and struggle to hold it. Big guys are loving the extra go! Very easy to build a lot of speed even in marginal wind.

Very light in the sky. You want to fly a bit different to usual light wind kiting, where you'd normally downloop etc. it's so light it doesn't tend to build speed the same way. You're often better off just zipping back over the top instead as acceleration on the upturn/stroke is very good due to the light weight.

Incredibly stiff frame. Feels super solid in the air, but the bar feedback is quite different to the regular Juice. It feels super light on the bar, so your timing for boosting feels different and it took a session or two to dial it in.

It's strange because of the light bar feel and light kite it doesn't feel like it's more powerful, but it is. As soon as you get going it makes heaps of power.

Turning speed is basically the same as the regular Juice, I wouldn't say it's noticeably faster. It turns different though, really likes to have the bar let out a bit more through the turns.

Goes upwind like you wouldn't believe. Same day on the water you can point way higher on the DLAB than the regular Juice. The efficiency in the air seems to really come into play when trying to work upwind, you can go upwind and do it fast in conditions where people are struggling to go on their big kites. If you kite somewhere where you are always working hard to get up wind, the DLAB would be a huge bonus.

Relaunch is pretty good. Almost identical to the regular Juice, doesn't seem any easier for regular relaunch. Since you can ride with it in really light wind, it can be a struggle to relaunch in those conditions (sub 6 knots etc.).

But yeah, reverse launches in next to nothing for an experienced rider. In shallow water where you can stand up, you can reverse launch it in basically anything. Have reverse launched off the water in like 2-3 knots.

Have used both the Flite and the DLAB Juice, not side by side here but had do a bit of a general comparison. Both very good kites. Cost is pretty comparable, 14.5m Flite and 15m DLAB Juice have about $100 between them. The newer OR stock had a fairly big price increase across the range (manufacturing and shipping etc. has gone nuts over the last year or two).

Flite has a 17m which is still more powerful than the 15m Juice, but the 15m Juice is significantly more than the 14.5m Flite.

Flite has more bar pressure/feedback, and is a little bit faster turning than the DLAB Juice. DLAB is faster through the air if you like a fast kite for foiling etc. Boosting the DLAB Juice has a bit more, same for raw grunt for people who want it. Flite is a bit smoother, gotta do another side by side comparison with the Flite and see how it goes, so just a general idea of the differences here.

Hope that helps. Long awaited, but they were worth the wait!

Interesting.......so the stuff about the 13 meter being designed for foiling, I guess you are getting pulled of the 15m sooner when the wind picks up?

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dachopper said..
Interesting.......so the stuff about the 13 meter being designed for foiling, I guess you are getting pulled of the 15m sooner when the wind picks up?

You can view it that the 13mtr would cover what a 14 (if they made a 14 Juice) might normally do, while the 15 is more like a 16. They go earlier, but top out earlier too (particular on a foil). You could probably get going on the 13 dlab foiling as early as you'd need to, making the 15 more of a twin tip light wind kite. Which is kind of what Duotone really say in their marketing.