Not a review, but a request for info... right forum?

Was out on Sunday on my 10m and Flydoor but the wind dropped... I could still get upwind, just wasn't having epic jumps so I started playing in the waves.

Which got me wanting a directional... but today, I was riding my Mako 150 and wondering if the King would be a better board for someone who isn't a surfer at all but wants to play in small (1-2m) waves...?

Whaddya reckon?

Yourve already got a mako right? set it up in mutant mode and give it a nudge. Offset the bindings run a single fin one end and a triple at the other.

Here's my view on surfboards V mutants.

Surfboard.

advantages
more buoyancy
tighter turning
more lateral grip with fig fins.
feels like a surfboard!! ride it like a surfboard!
can take steeper faces without the risk of nosedive
better down the line
disavantages
constant need to jybe or ride toeside.
large and unwieldy in the air
can be "slappy in the chop"
large fins limit riding the shallows.
more of a pain in the arse fitting into your car.
feels quite twichy.
easier to damage

muntant
advantages
goes backwards and forwards.
feels more solid, less likely to dammage.
better in chop
better for boosting
ride the shallows/rocky sections with less fear of damage to fins and board.

disadvantages
can nosedive of steep walls
doesn't feel like a surfboard
does have that snappy turn on the wave face.
no buoyancy if you get stuck way out at sea.... the board wont save your life.

So ..... if you have a need to right down the line and try to emulate a surfer surfing a wave with little or no pull from the kite. then yes surfboard is for you. If you want to smash around in the waves and boost wave ride at the same time using the waves more as a your own personal amusement park then mutant is for you.

Best thing to do is try it out. I personally prefer the mutant. it suits my style better. but most of the guys at my local are rocking surf boards. So i'm a bit of a weirdo.

I reckon the King probably won't have you out in 10 knots or the same wind as a flydoor. To me it is not a light wind board but an intermediate moderate wind board. 14 to 20 knots at say 80kg on a 12/14m kite sort of board. The king though will be much better in the waves than a door.

Ever considered something like a north nugget? But again then you are heading in the directional zone, see above.

Just the two guys I wanted replies from awesome, thanks!

Not looking for another light wind board - when the wind is light, there's no waves anyway! Not sure if I want a Nugget either they're only about 150 long too, aren't they? How they go, playing in waves?
Not sure about directionals as I've never surfed... have snowboarded and skateboarded though.

My primary spot is the lake (for wind from the north, 15 minutes from home) but "our" beach does something underwater nicely at either end, so we get wind-driven "waves" that you can ride... when the wind is up.
The nearest ocean (for southerlies) just has nasty chop between the waves everywhere. A flat board is almost no use, since it just bounces around and sinks a lot, especially the small ones.

I know of three guys in Japan with Flysurfers, nobody else with a monster door, I'm (almost) officially The Heaviest Kiter in Japan (but not the fattest!!!)... they don't come much weirder than me

Think I'll give the Mako 150 a run in mutant mode (have the fins already) to give me an idea of the King, and try to wrangle a ride on a directional... and think about the Nugget some more :o

Okay the nugget goes really early it is very quite wide. Will go before the king. But as you said not looking for a light wind board.

Then two come to mind, for sure the King then, and also consider the w18 speedball from the shinn range. Been some reviews on here already. The speedball is 47.5 cm wide but only 132 long, so probably easier to chuck around in those wind driven waves. The king is good to, but likes a nicely formed wave I think the speedball would be more dexterous in those quick waves you are talking about.

Don't know how heavy you actually are? Look I'm only 75 so the 150 mako is sublime for me in the waves and honestly I ride it just TT setup. This way it keeps the mako carve pure and the rail digs and sticks enough to act like a big ass fin anyway. Plus it doesn't sound like you have proper swell, reef formed waves anyway so the 150 should do fine. Although you mentioned riding the door when there were waves and now you say the waves are only there when the wind is up. So I'm a little confused on what ya wind target you are looking for and with what kite and size you have at your disposal.

Sounds like you mutant or your current mako will be the way. To try a surfboard you really need to buy one and use over months to get used to how it rides. one 30 min session on a borrowed board wont tell you what you need to know.

NOOOOooooooo... oooooooo! Not another Shinn suggestion

No, no 'real' waves at the lake and the ocean is not so good either.

I'm heavy, let's just leave it at that I ride big kites (Crossbows) and boards... if the regular sized guys are on 12's, I'm riding a 16. I've only got the 'door at the moment (except for the Mako and a 2005 North Sumo) so I ride that all the time. With the smaller board, I'd ride my 16m XB out to 20 knots, the 13 to 25 and the 10 to 30. And then there's the Flysurfers

For me to get on a 10m kite, is a couple of times a year event. I'd like to use a smaller, faster kite and ride the waves, but I dunno if that'll happen on a Mako King...?

Might be able to get a demo on a Cabrinha Subwoofer, but it'll be a session at most. Won't that be enough for me to know if I'll like the feeling?

I really don't think surfboard is what you need given your explanation. Really surfboards come into their own on decent sized waves riding down the line with a small fast kite. Wind driven choppy waves with short wave period on a large slow kite?... nah. yourl have more fun bump and jumping around slashing some walls on your mako.

Agree with Plummett here. Maybe have a go on the subwoofer and let us know how you went. But SBs are really for decent waves unless you want to get into sub ariel strapless stuff which I personally think is awesome and well beyond what I could ever do. Riding on waves with a SB blah did that for years and still do surfing. On kites it's kiteboards for me but everyone's built differently.

Yeh sorry about the shin mention but I have to say given your conditions a more TT orientated board that planes early like te W18 would work. The mako, its in a whole different part of the spectrum, its own. Not sure you'd gain a whole lot more on the king. A few knots but that's all.

Go the mutant i too was in same condition as you .No real swell or power in wave all wind generated waves max 2 but normaly 1meter so i got a cardboard wave and havnt looked back just boosting (more like hoping over waves) and treating the waves like a motor bike burm. Comeing in riding same direction as wave get in front of it turn and face it straight on then slash it and ride away in the same direction as wave . I can do this all day soooooo much fun digging the back fins in and making a big splash !! well for me it is . I dont think the wave will be big enough for you but might be but set up your mako and go slash them . you wont regret going mute .

To clarify...we rode the W16 speedball back to back for two three hour sessions with a 140 and 150 mako.

At one time my bro (on an 11m edge and weighing 8kg more, I was on a 14m cat) was on the w16 and he wind dropped a bit. I was on the 140, had to go to the 150, and yet he was still keeping ground with me.

Hence the W18 is even wider and by all acounts would be better for someone your size. We also had it on the flat in the second session and let's face it that is what you are on, with some wind waves and the TT lineage came to the surface here...very efficient, weird for a 132 board.

But...we are still on Mako's if that says anything. But the W18 would suite you needs a lot better than a King...and that is coming from one of the few that dispute the over whelming anecdotal experiences that seem to expound the virtues of the Shinn range against such boards as the Mako. Free ride carving in the waves, give me a mako anytime. Flat out aggressive speed riding with huge boosting can't go past the monk. On the flat, I think there are many boards that are just as good if not better than a supershinn. That's my position at the moment anyhow.

Oh yeh also rode a CB wave for a long time, great board but not for someone your weight and really likes again good waves.

I was joking about the Shinn-thing :)

Sounds like the mutant is the go then. Certainly the most cost-effective as I have all the stuff on-hand!

How about a Nugget?

Yeh replied on the other forum as well. Don't know about that one. As I said I'm a mutant/TT rider who ocassionally gets on a strapless SB for fits and giggles in lighter stuff when I can't be bothered drinking too much salt water in that skim board I cannot seem to master!!

Also been on the nugget many many times.

Would I own one for myself...nah. Don't mind borrowing it for a fling here and there to change it up but I wouldn't own one. I have way too much fun on my mutants.

No I have to say reading all your posts, I'm afraid to say...the W18 is what you should be looking into to.

I sell them so maybe biased?
But from the loads of reading & initial feedback - and just looking at the board - my reckoning is its going to deliver its best return to big guys.
those who are forced to ride the dunny doors while their smaller lighter mates are charging on smaller TT's.
These are the guys who will be totally frothing being able to throw these little babies around like match sticks - an experience they have never had in the past.
Time will tell.

Took the Mako out last night in mutant mode... underpowered but for a while I got to play. What a hoot! Was easier to ride "backwards" than I thought it would be too. So I'm going to enjoy that puppy for sure!

Next questions - what do the different fin configurations offer? Moving the back pad backer or the front one forwarder - what does it do?

Re the Speedball - would deffo have to try one before buying yet another TT...

Someone else put it all in perspective for me - I've got my Door for lightwind, I'll have a regular TT for powered riding, a Mako for powered faffing about in waves etc and... I think I WILL get a proper directional for fat guys and pass on the Nugget/Freerace boards.

So-ooo... what does a heavy guy need in a directional? Naish, Cabrinha and probably Slingshot are options for local purchase...

Sounds sensible and I have come the same conclusions minus the directional which I have never liked. Mako can the beat carving in the waves and hitting some jumps. A squared tipped TT for the flat and as you said when powered to Sh1t. I use a skim when real light.

Good luck with the SB thing.

Suggest a airush Cypher to start it off.

Options here for buying local are Slingshot, Cabrinha, and Naish. Slingshot Dialer has been suggested as a good starting point but... it looks ugly

Oh, thoughts on fin use in Mutant?

Select to expand quote

Plummet said..

I really don't think surfboard is what you need given your explanation. Really surfboards come into their own on decent sized waves riding down the line with a small fast kite. Wind driven choppy waves with short wave period on a large slow kite?... nah. yourl have more fun bump and jumping around slashing some walls on your mako.

Sorry but I couldn't disagree more. With the right board a surfboard is twice the fun of a mutant or twin-tip in marginal choppy conditions. The volume helps with any lack of speed and thee is no replacing that surfboard feel.

Try a short Quad like the Whip for a fun loose feel.

Sorry briskites I watch the guys in those conditions on SBs and I couldn't disagree with you more, although the guys pushing the strapless Arial stuff big respect from me man. Nothing can e place the feel of a SB ? I hate the feel of a SB with a kite. So each to their own I suppose.

Select to expand quote

BrisKites said..

Plummet said..

I really don't think surfboard is what you need given your explanation. Really surfboards come into their own on decent sized waves riding down the line with a small fast kite. Wind driven choppy waves with short wave period on a large slow kite?... nah. yourl have more fun bump and jumping around slashing some walls on your mako.

Sorry but I couldn't disagree more. With the right board a surfboard is twice the fun of a mutant or twin-tip in marginal choppy conditions. The volume helps with any lack of speed and thee is no replacing that surfboard feel.

Try a short Quad like the Whip for a fun loose feel.

That's the awesomenss of kiting. One mans horror is another mans glory.

Select to expand quote

Kamikuza said..

Oh, thoughts on fin use in Mutant?

ok. So tri fin and the back. single or double fin at the front. For mutant wave riding the more you offset the binding back towards the tri fin the more "surf" feel you can obtain. you will be able carve tighter turns on the wave face the further back you place your feet.

But when going forwards and backwards there's a point where the foot stance is offset too much and going backwards feels wrong. you get porpoising and a squerelly feel.

So just play around with your foot stance until you get it right.

As for size of fins. obviously the bigger fins your go the more grip you will have. I started off with big surf fins and decided I had too much grip and now have settled on 55cm fins on the tri fin end and 40cm at the front. That gives me good grip on the wave face but at the same time I can easily slide when need be.

Select to expand quote

eppo said..
Sorry briskites I watch the guys in those conditions on SBs and I couldn't disagree with you more, although the guys pushing the strapless Arial stuff big respect from me man. Nothing can e place the feel of a SB ? I hate the feel of a SB with a kite. So each to their own I suppose.

Not sure if your drinking today or what Eppo but none of that made any sense to me....

Yes it did lack some grammatical finess!

Basically I disagree that you disagree with Plummett as I believe you can easily beat the feel of a surfboard. I think they are completely overrated and to this very day do not understand crews fascination with them in sloppy and average waves. Smash it up with a mutant now that's FUN!!

Select to expand quote

Plummet said..
ok. So tri fin and the back. single or double fin at the front. For mutant wave riding the more you offset the binding back towards the tri fin the more "surf" feel you can obtain. you will be able carve tighter turns on the wave face the further back you place your feet.

But when going forwards and backwards there's a point where the foot stance is offset too much and going backwards feels wrong. you get porpoising and a squerelly feel.

So just play around with your foot stance until you get it right.

As for size of fins. obviously the bigger fins your go the more grip you will have. I started off with big surf fins and decided I had too much grip and now have settled on 55cm fins on the tri fin end and 40cm at the front. That gives me good grip on the wave face but at the same time I can easily slide when need be.

On my Mako (2011 or 12? previous model to the latest one) I got one fin on the "front" option (56mm), and three on the "back"?2x 51mm, 1x the big one? 100mm? Might be 86mm, can't remember?

Got a 56 on the front, 2x 51mm and the big one on the back. I see what you mean about it not sliding! but it ride lovely backwards?find it easy to go upwind riding backwards! Board really pivots under the back foot when I "carved"?is that the three fins gripping?

So you use 3x 56mm fins and a 36mm on the front? OR brand?

Here's my current set up.

I think its the combo of more fin area and back set bindings that give you the pivotal turning. Running the big fin in the middle definitely gives you even more power holding ability and drive through your turns on the wave face.

But personally I like to blaze the shallows too and that is the primary reason I took the big fin off.

I see you got your new car in the shot plummett lol!!

you mean this one?!



Loving the ute. Awesome kite wagon. All the wet stuff goes in the back and doesn't stink me out. Plus I can 4wd myself to obscure spots to get access to the sweet sweet locations.

LOL! Hey is that at that landboarding get together you told me about?

Been out on the Mutant for a few sessions now and I have to say... I like it! Much better for me than it is in TT mode - better low end (very close to my door?!?!) and so much fun to carve around! Bloody work-out too... find myself huffing and puffing after chasing the waves and whatnot.

Can't wait to try it in proper waves!

... I see a King in my future too :o Crikey!

I don't see how the 150 could have better low end setup mutant mode over tt . TT should be more efficient/better low end. Glad to hear you like it though.

What fin setup are you using?