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My Comments:


So does the Dice have more, less, equal or same low end as the Rebel

I get my 13M Dice tomorrow. I have the 2014 Rebel 14M.

I hope I made the wright choice w the Dice. I weigh 115 Kgs and Only ride SBs in Ocean.

14

Going on the review thread of the dice, it does not have quite the bottom end of the Rebel and others have suggested you need to go up one metre for the same wind- range as an equivalent rebel.

Less.

It is basically a C-kite so by nature it won't have the same bottom end as a Rebel. As far as C-shaped kites go it is exactly what you can expect, if you normally ride a 9m then get the 9m. If you really want heaps of power then maybe stepping up a size will suit you better.

Personally I haven't found the Dice to lack bottom end and i've had my hands on the kite since June. I think it's just that it is a kite that (like most C-shaped kites) likes to be flown a little quicker and more aggressively as opposed to just parking it in the one spot. People have compared the power to completely different kites like the Rebel and even the Ozone Edge which is like comparing the power of an F1 & a truck.

See how you go with the 13m, you can always get a 15 or bigger if it's lighter than that. Or a board with zero rocker like a Nugget.

Drew @ WA Surf

Rode both other day with Puetz - dont tell his missus

My 13 dice and her/his 14 rebel . I weigh 85 and rode nugget - the big fella is larger - around your weight ( after morning ablution ) - and rode cypher 6" ? About 15-18 kts

But same as above comment - they are quite different kites - the rebel should ultimately always have a better bottom end . The dice, as stated above has the ability to wind up to somewhere near the rebel at the bottom end but needs to be worked - it is also smaller though . I reckon it is faster in a straight line when powered than the rebel .

On the other day , I was fully powered up to the point of nearly de-powering a bit on the rebel bit not the dice - so I guess that tells the story - smaller kite , not as grunty as you would expect . And also agree that the dice does not lack low end

Having said that - you will have a great time on the dice in the waves - it's a whole different ball game against the rebel .


Thanks for the opportunity Bomber - maybe you might have some thoughts ?

Thank you for the input. That helps me understand a little more. Sounds like my Nugget or my 6' 4 Firewire Sweet Potato on lighter days is the key for getting my Pies moving.

Any more input for getting Max Bottom end out of the 13 Dice is appreciated.

14

Firstly happy birthday toeside.

Yeh my brother had a bit of dialling in as well coming off the edges.

Yet the other guy I ride with (a very experienced rider) had no probs coming of the wainmens hence lies thereth the lessoneth
And I to had to watch him, ask then apply.

Basically as Eddie said takes a bit of active flying to start. Point ya board a fair bit down wind, get going with sweep of the kite, but then slightly bring it back into the window with a little movement. Do this a few times building up the speed of the kite and your board to a point you can lock it off and really crank upwind. If you feel you are losing speed a bit, do the ever so fast movements bringing it back into the window, ever so slightly.

It doesn't want large sweeping arcs, and remember the upstroke gives you nearly as much speed and power as the downstroke.

Take a little pressure off your rail on the upstroke, use this power don't waste it. These small movements can be done easily with one hand and it becomes intuitive and natural after a while. Feel the pressure through your front lines, keep it tightish, use it on the upstroke. This kite actually wants to initially fly forward in the window quite strongly, but then settle back into a really nice position. As opposed to say and edge which keeps wanting to eat the edge of the window and just stays there, generating an immense amount of apparent wind effortlessly.

By using the technique above you are using this aspect of the kite over and over again and although it is not as obvious as a high aspect kite it is there to exploit nevertheless. If the edge has taught me anything it is apparent wind generation.

In strong current you need to employ this technique quite a bit to generate speed first.

Hope this helps. My bro is starting to get it now and I'm sure before too long he will be out pointing me. He had some voodoo sht going on with the edges and would out point all of us!!

... hey 14, I've ridden both and to cut straight to my conclusion, Rebel has more power for sure. Coming from a heavy weight point of view both kites were stable, easy to steer and once up and running great upwind speed but where the Dice comes in second is it needs attention to keep the power in the lower wind ranges.

Robbie

Yeh I had the 2012 rebel, with the 2014 moving back to a similar bottom end/power delivery and yeh I'd go one size bigger as you do if say you wanted a Vegas. But I reckon with the more swept tips and design you are half a size off to be more accurate, especially if you learn how to unlock the apparent wind in the dice as explained above. Its a function of aspect.

But if low end is your defining characteristic between choosing between these two kites then I would say you need re examine what you really want out of your kites. Very different purposes.

Eppo and Robbie,

Thank you for your input! It gives me an exact idea what I need to do to get the JUICE from the Dice.

Thank you Eppo for the Descriptive technique on now to SQUEEZE the JUICE out of the Dice! I can't wait to fly it riding my Nugget!!


Thank you for the B Day wishes Eppo!

Hey had a go now on both in 12m put simply Rebel has more low end power but the dice is way quicker through air and looping it is way more comfortable for generating quick power, get the dice if your more into SB and waves and get the rebel if your more into free riding, jumps with ariel tricks and super easy kite to handle.

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shane75 said..

Hey had a go now on both in 12m put simply Rebel has more low end power but the dice is way quicker through air and looping it is way more comfortable for generating quick power, get the dice if your more into SB and waves and get the rebel if your more into free riding, jumps with ariel tricks and super easy kite to handle.

Exactly! And...if the dice if you want to throw down some freestyle hooked and unhooked as well.

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eppo said...

shane75 said..

Hey had a go now on both in 12m put simply Rebel has more low end power but the dice is way quicker through air and looping it is way more comfortable for generating quick power, get the dice if your more into SB and waves and get the rebel if your more into free riding, jumps with ariel tricks and super easy kite to handle.

Exactly! And...if the dice if you want to throw down some freestyle hooked and unhooked as well.

True I've heard a lot of guys saying its close to a C kite as you can get, but I wouldn't know cause I'm too old for that s__t lol

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shane75 said..

eppo said...

shane75 said..

Hey had a go now on both in 12m put simply Rebel has more low end power but the dice is way quicker through air and looping it is way more comfortable for generating quick power, get the dice if your more into SB and waves and get the rebel if your more into free riding, jumps with ariel tricks and super easy kite to handle.

Exactly! And...if the dice if you want to throw down some freestyle hooked and unhooked as well.

True I've heard a lot of guys saying its close to a C kite as you can get, but I wouldn't know cause I'm too old for that s__t lol

Nah Shane BS. There are some softer hooked in moves that are awesome to learn with little impact on the body where the C kite profile can help deliver. Also the basics of unhooking is pretty easy on the body. Try and explore all the facets just at a level that suites. One thing is for sure, not sure how you could get bored of this sport. Even 14 seasons in, with age and family handbrakes in place, I'm still as amped as ever!! Always new stuff to learn hey....