Hi again....
laways the same with me and I guess I should just learn how to ride that C4 the pedal to the metal and stop whinning... Here is my situation:

the other day I was on my C4 12m in up and down winds and much more wind higher up than on the water. I am 85kg, and honestly the C4 was not getting me anywhere interesting... Pretty much a few feet from the beach. The only guys who could get far out were 2006 Crossbows 12m (2 of them). The RPMs, Fuels, C4 we were all standing still (later on the wind got better and everybody had fun). I also own an Edge 15m which I love so far in the 7-15knots winds, I did not infale it that day cuz I tough being 5m over the locals is never a good idea...The wind was quite strong in altitude. So I came back thinking... Hey I got a Catalyst 8m which I also love in the 18-30knts range maybe a cat 12m would give me better range at both ends, then I tought maybe an Edge 11m but I kind of like the versatility of the Cat: waves, easy relaunch, freeriding, jumping (not like an Edge but still capable), bit of FS but I think it depowers better than the C4 which I find is still pulling once the bar against the cleat. So would the Cat 12m do the same job as the Edge 11m in the low end but a better job than the C4 12m at the top end when the wind is weird like that. Different kites for different programs but right now I am just freeriding, learning jumps, toeside and all un til i get those nice carved jibes in and why not a sweet power turn to catch waves eventually. So I need something in between my Edge 15m and my Catalyst 8m, I lean towards the Cat 12m but I need something that will have at least the lowend of a Rebel 12m.

Thanks

have you ever been diagnosed with ADHD ?

Select to expand quote

massterb said...

have you ever been diagnosed with ADHD ?

if so please do not stop taking your medication

Select to expand quote

flipper231BA said...

Hi again....
I guess I should just learn how to ride that C4 the pedal to the metal and stop whinning...

I think you answered your own question. The C4 doesn't have to be pedal to the metal though. I've seen a beginner (more of a beginner than you) use one effectively. If you're still learning to ride toeside the C4 is a lot more advanced than you need, but will pay dividends as you improve and become less dependant on pull-the-bar grunt.

That said, I recall you were warned about getting a mongrel quiver and for any easily influenced folk reading this at home, there's a lot to be said for a consistent feel between kites, whatever they are.

Oh I remember but then I had 2 twelves, a fuse and a C4 and I decided to go for 2 Ozones which I prefer over the C4, the Edge is great in light crappy winds and the cat 8 can withstand huge wind 35+ and has ok bottom but who cares about bottom in an 8m, so I was wondering if a cat12 would have better low end than the c4 2010.

For the ADHD I should be worked up with luck the doc will give me 3 months off to cool off, time I will use to get good with the c4...

Hi Flipper,

The Catalyst won't really give you any better bottom end than the C4. The Edge on the other hand is grunty in it's bottom end. They all go upwind better than most, especially the Edge. A more poignant question would be "what style of riding are you doing?", as the three kites, although they can all freeride, are pretty much for different styles.

11 Edge would have similar power to Cat 12 and C4 12 bottom end I would think, and likely better top end too. The C4 is a more dynamically designed performance kite which requires a little more work on the riders behalf to extract the most from their bottom end power. By the sound of the place you were riding, there was little wind down low and much more up high so I can assume you were riding in an offshore situation like a lake or river??? If so, a set of Ozone 5m line extensions will do amazing things for bottom end and getting your kite up a bit higher into the airstream.

Also there is something to consider about the 3 strut vs 5 strut kites. They can have the same bottom end, but in the upper end of their wind range moving into the overpowered range, the three strut kites tend to be a lot less stable as the forward part of the canopy inevitably starts to backwind and creat turbulence.

This happens as wind speed increases which moves the draught (lift point) further back and required the kite to be further depowered. The forward part of the airfoil is then at a low to almost negetive angle of attack. The problem is you lose steering ability and increase instability (dangerous and uncomfortable combo).

A quality 5 strut kites canopy will be better supported and remain more stable in overpowered conditions. This makes them much more fun and controllable to fly outside of their stated wind range, provided you have the skill and experience to handle the kite in such conditions.

Kites like the Catalyst are better flown in their wind range for a smoother and more enjoyable experience. The C4 and Edge are far more practical in a wider wind range.

I hope this explanation helps.

DM

I would stick with the C4 and get some more experience,down the track youll prob regret the swap as the C4 is a sweet freestyle/surf kite,you've just got to learn how to use it.

flying kites in light wind efficently is the hardest thing to learn with kiting ....you failed to mention what board/s you are using as this also has a major impact on your ability to get out in light winds. The C4 is a great kite but they do have a limited wind range and not a great bottom end ....they are brillient for the freestyle boys but for just free riding and surf you are probibly better off on somethijng else... give a 9m edge a go before you make up your mind outstanding bottom end and they go alright on the waves providing you fly them fast.
But if your passion is the waves mostly then the cat is the way to go. Your progression will probibly be better on the Cat aswell.

A lot of people get poor performance mixed up with poor technique on their behalf (some even if they have been riding for a little while).

My opinion is you need to dial in a kite and understand what works best and this differs between kites.

The C4 has been highly praised in the past so might be best to ask around on how to get the most out of the kite.

Many thanks to all I a drawing a few conclusions and you guys are all right, from AKS with the technical part, to Pedro who says I would be better to get with the program and log those hours in and I should come out of it a more knowledgeable kiter to the guys who say I need to take pills.

-I bought a set of extensions for my Edge 15m, it should help with the C4 for those altitude winds
-The 5 strut structure of the C4 should help keeping it taut in the gusts
-I will ride the C4 on my Cat Bar: should have more depower on hand

I ride on lakes and we often have those higher winds (cold and hot air don't mix)
This summer I will try the Cat 12m and next year when it's time to change the C4, I may go that way.

And I still have that Fuse, it works on the Ozone bar but it should not be depowered too much because the fuse loses all steering. And that 12m has heaps of power, i just hate North's 4 line system.

Try the C4 with your Edge bar.. With the extension you already have you will have some extra power, extra depower due to the longer throw and the extra length of the bar will compensate for reduced turning speed with longer lines.
Bye Jankie

OK done, the C4 has been turned into a CAT 12m... Not the recomendation but I had way too much fun the other day.... 12-25 knots (yup we get those), rode my 150x48 and 136x42 custom boards, depending on the wind...Ups and downs...I think the Cat goes well with the Edge 15m, different animals but you don't feel they behave that differently, the cat is less powerfull, drifts much better relaunches a tad better...I first wanted the Edge 11m to keep things as equal as possible but the ease of use of the Cat won me over, but being an intermediate what will be my future direction? Old school? waves? FS?, I think the Cat might be the best to explore everything from down the line surfing to jumping and grabbing... I just feel that kite is so loose...

Well probably moot now....

I run 11m edge, 9mc4 and 8m light.

i've just upgraded the 9m c4 to a 10m to sit in my quiver better.

11 edge is a great light/medium wind kite. My advice would have been get the 11 edge. it boosts huge in 18 knots and runs upwind hard. for sub 20 jumping its in a league of its own.

Also the c4 has a sweet low end if you work the kite i can stay upwind on the 9m as low as 16 knots. But its not as good as the edge for shear grunt. my 11m edge out strips the cat and the c4 12m in light winds.......

As someone esle said all 3 kites are different styles.

11m edge for bossting and lightwind old school freestyle 12 to 25 knots
10m c4 for looping, waves and new school freestyle 18-30 knots
8m light or catalyst for storm kiting 25-45 knots

PS C4 has a good wind range. it has less depower at the bar. but it creates power though turning speed. to depower park and ride it. power it up. work it like a cheap hooker.

The best kiters I kite with (Happy, Mewitt and Zac) only have one kite.
AND, Happy could have as many as he wants for zip....
Don't think for one minute that you'll appreciate the finer points of all of the kites available or that there is a kite out there that will do it all.
Grab one kite, and the C4 is a very good kite, and just learn how to use it
Oh, and I forgot to mention, they all only have one board too......

Select to expand quote

Daisy said...

The best kiters I kite with (Happy, Mewitt and Zac) only have one kite.
AND, Happy could have as many as he wants for zip....
Don't think for one minute that you'll appreciate the finer points of all of the kites available or that there is a kite out there that will do it all.
Grab one kite, and the C4 is a very good kite, and just learn how to use it
Oh, and I forgot to mention, they all only have one board too......

Any kite can do it all provided it's blowing over 25 knots. The C4 will just do it better.

Haha, onya Wishy! What kite do you use by chance....

C4 9m, the big blue booster.

Select to expand quote

wishy said...

C4 9m, the big blue booster.

the 9m green boosts bigger than the blue - fact

nah you have it all wrong! red boosts way higher than green or blue. Red is also faster aswell!! ahhh... 10m red c4 is in my possesion. but dammit the wind is playing ball for to fly its glory ass.

oh ps my 11m red ozone edge boosts way way higher than you non red c4's.

Select to expand quote

Plummet said...

nah you have it all wrong! red boosts way higher than green or blue. Red is also faster aswell!! ahhh... 10m red c4 is in my possesion. but dammit the wind is playing ball for to fly its glory ass.

oh ps my 11m red ozone edge boosts way way higher than you non red c4's.

The edge does boost bigger, but the C4 feels WAY scarier!
I prefer to be "catapult-boosted" by the C4 than "friendly-cuddly-boosted" by the edge.
Having said that it is so nice to fly around on the edge for 8-10 seconds and checkout the view, knowing that you will be landing with your knees and face fully intact.

7 am at its already 21 knots. getting ready to hit the beach with the 10m c4... oooh.

2.8m swell. cross on wind. oh yeah.

yes c4 is definatly more punchy than the edge for sure. its a different style. probably i prefer the glide of the edge for insane jumps. but c4 in and off the waves is epic.