Just thought I'd write in about an incident that I had recently. Hopefully this thread stays troll free.

I have 2x Core XR with bar and lines. Core Owners will all know (and probably love) their bar and lines, it has an easy reach depower/power, v. responsive and you can adjust to length. It also has a lovely hook on the bar so if you wanted to do any tricks without hands you can just hook it in and forget about it. Most other systems require fiddling around with the stopper ball above the bar.

As Core XR riders you'll also be familiar with the bar occasionally getting hooked when you're not expecting it..this might cause a not so gentle bunny hop till u get control over it but nothing fatal.

I had a touching cloth experience last week that wasn't all that expected and am warning you of the possibility of it happening again with this design. First off, it was bloody windy, 30kts with 35 gusts. Secondly, there was noone else on the beach to land, so me and my mate was going to land ourselves with our kites in the air.

As I went to land (from waterside) I got my kite down to my mate who got hold of it, and then couldn't hold onto it and his own so he let go of mine. Because of the wind it was too far back in the window to launch back up so started doing the odd lazy kite loop while I struggled to bring it up into the window. When I realized that that wasn't going to happen, I reached for my quick release and pulled.

The kite fell away with my leash, however the safety line had wrapped itself once around that lovely hook on the bar and instead of receding away stayed where it was. Now the bar was on the end of my leash and had a lot more movement it started doing very rapid uncontrollable death loops (a very tight turning kite loop), I have no idea how many as I was face down in the drink most of the time but it sure as hell wasn't fun. When the lines were twisted about half way to the kite the safety line thankfully snapped!

If it had been in a different situation; with a shorter beach, or if I'd tried to land on the beach side, or there were people in the water, or a number of things this story may not have ended so wonderfully. Ultimately it's the sort of stunt that could really put a blight on kitesurfing..imagine if this had happened at Scarborough

Afterward, I'm trying to decide whether to chop the hook (although because CORE have designed the bar with the hook, there is no other system to allow you to do handless tricks) or what. I think I'll bring a hook knife from now on though(however in this situation you'd prob have to pull yourself above the leash to use it). One thing I'll always do before pulling is check that safety..and if you have a CORE with hook I suggest you keep this in mind, or if you don't belive me roll the safety line around the hook and see if u can pull.

I've emailed CORE and have suggested they do something about it, either provide a retractable hook (so you can neutralize it if conditions are less than perfect) or provide a cap for it that doesn't interfere with the release. I like the second option the best and if anyone comes up with a solution, please PM me.

Just trying to interperet your problem and have some questions.

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it was too far back in the window to launch back up so started doing the odd lazy kite loop while I struggled to bring it up into the window.

What is an odd lazy kiteloop in 30 -35knots?



The safety leash supplied with a Core kite has a secondary release at the harness end of the leash. Most brands have this for the odd chance that a situation like this could occur. Does yours have this release?



The hook system on this bar is a little old school. North used it back in the Ckite Rhino days, but I feel it is probably out dated now.

30-35 knots is real strong wind, so these safety release points and safety lines need to be checked seriously especially before you launch or land your kite.

That sounds a bit narsty.

I think one of you would have been better off pulling your safety as you would have been able to check the line wasnt tangled etc. then retrieving your kite then landing your mate.

I have seen people try and launch and land kites in the manner you are describing works well 90% of the time buy it only takes one mistake with either holding the kite or a line put on wrong and it all turns to $#it very quickly.

Definatly practice releasing the secondary release it is there to save your life when it all goes wrong. If its hooked to a handlepass leash make sure you can reach it when you are getting pulled backwards or make sure there is a release on the handlepass leash. I know a lot of guys with North gear that cut there loops off the bar, after some broken ribs.

There are a lot of diferent style stopper balls that you would be able to replace the hook with just look around and find something that works for you.

I fly a Core
and understand the problem I have been caught where the line gets wrapped around the hook on the bar
is it possible to hacksaw the hook off
Pete

The problem with this bar, is even when you throw the primary release the chicken loop still stays attached to your harness, and if your lines are wrapped around the "deadman hook" the kite stays powered and attached.
I've been lofted 8 meters out of the water after stuffing a backroll, because the hook got caught on the loop (which most people cut off) on a demo kite, and i've seen an instructor get a broken hand, when it took 2 people to get a death-looping kite released ,because of the same problem Durks had,the bar slammed into his hand.
Powerfull, grunty, bundle of yellow and black fun, but a bit like a wasp, will try and kill you when you least expect it

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Durks said...

It also has a lovely hook on the bar

Glad you are oK. Is this the bar? How can the safety wrap on the micro loop? Is the actual design different to this pic?

Hi Guys,

It can happen, usually when the lines go slack after a botched jump or whatever. If you aren't using it, grab a hacksaw and cut the hook off.

I've been riding the Cores a fair bit and have had no problem and I like the hook to rest my arms on long tacks or when bringing a lost board back upwind. Also fun for deadmans!

Beware the hook! [}:)]

KH

I have 3 core xr's a 5, 7 and a 9, and have never had it accidentally hooked on the loop or when I release the chicken loop it hasn't hooked on any of th lines. I have seen people it has happened to and the have had their kite death loop down the beach being dragged behind it. I have heard of people taking angle grinders to the hook to stop it from happening again.

to use word DANGER in relation to Core bar is unfair and silly, the matter of the hook was disscused on this forum at lengh in the past, every single CORE rider should be aware of its drawbacks and benefits and act accordingly not to try to blame the best and safest bar for his own mistakes in heavy conditions..

kites in death loops have resulted in many deaths in kitesurfing.
I think the word DANGER is appropriate and it would be wrong to assume every CORE rider is aware of the danger......

It must be just me but I am still confused what part is getting hooked by the hook. If you release the primary release the cloop breaks open, activating the centre line safety. How does the centre line safety get wrapped around the hook that much that it would not release.

Also as per previously asked, why was the secondary release not used?

I have sold a fair few of these locally and would like to be able to advise my customers of this problem. Thanks

Arsa,
the red safety line that runs through the ckickenloop is what is wrapping around
the hook which means when the chicken loop is pulled the bar wont slide up the
safety line to de power the kite.

i ride core kites, the first thing i did when i got the bar out of the bag was to cut
the micro loop off ( i use a north stopper above the bar) . I have had the safety wrap around the hook in question after putting my kite down but always fixed before re-launch. I think the thing is if you know the issues you can check. (the micro loop is the bigger danger).

Thanks for the clarification.

That thing where one guy lands the other's kite while keeping his own in the air looks so dodgey to me.

Especially when self landing a kite is so easy - even at 35kts (I've posted a technique elsewhere) It must be safer than having two kite both close & neither really under control.

How many times do you guys tangle?

Can you clarify what happened to your secondary safety as requested 3 or 4 times already in this thread.

I've read a few kitemare stories now that involve death looping kites, it appears a majority of kiters haven't been able to detach themselves from their kites for some reason or another.

Your incident seems pretty straight forward. 1. Out of control kite. 2. Realeased your primary safety which tangles on chicken loop. 3. Get dragged backwards in water. 4.should of reached behind and pulled your secondary, hope kite settles on water long enough for a friend or yourself to retrieve.
That's exactly what the secondary release is for, but doesn't seem to get used.

I agree that's a dangerous set up, most companies have good enough stoppers to not require the hook and loop arrangement anymore. Definately a good move contacting them with your concerns, I'm sure your not the first.

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tobes said...




Here is the bar. The hook is above the chickenloop.

I think Durks is right to point out the DANGER, it might save someone else.
Kitehards advice is good, if you guys don't want the hook, get a hacksaw and a file.

Just a quicky guys. You are flying with the yellow side of the bar on ur left correct? Most kites it don`t matter. Just in this pic the bar is the wrong way around if that`s the flying position and as you pull on the bar, especially in big jumps, it will tend to roll the micro loop toward the hook. Just a thought as I`m on my second GT now and have never had it hook in. One thing I have had happen though is one of the centre lines near the hook wrap around the hook before I launched however that was my fault for not checking everything correctly.

come on waveslave this thread is screaming for your comment. Sounds like a scary moment but as others have said that is why leashes have a second release.

Regarding the land method..yes landing with another kiter isn't smart, and I usually would self-land however can't in wind that strong. regardless my beef is with what happened after the safety was released, everything else is pretty immaterial.

The safety line was clear when I set up, and must have become hooked while backrolling earlier or the 'lazy kite loops' I described when landing. Lazy kite loops is relative, in reference to deathloops which are a hell of a lot more viscious.

I didn't actually know about the secondary until reading these responses as my first kite never had one... Now I do

The DANGER title is appropriate. I'm not over-reacting but relaying an unfortunate experience that was dangerous and could have been worse. The issue is that it effects the safety line and by extension you can't call it the 'safest bar and lines'[}:)] Just imagine your kite being fully powered with absolutely no control on the end of your safety leash..

However, I've been out heaps on my CORE and short of occasionally hooking on the bar loop and getting launched until I can unhook, except this occasion have never had a problem. The first is a dangerous design issue, the second is operation. I've put it here to keep the trolls out..don't think they're that interested in gear review!

Still debating whether to chop it, but regardless I'm now painfully aware that when I pull safety, regardless of situation, I'll always check that dam safety line. Because its anything but safe if the bars released from the chicken loop withoout retracting the safety. unless you want to know what a stone skimming the surface feels like

I would actually like a stopper option on the CORE so you could cut the loop and still be able to do tricks! But alas

The DANGER title is definetly appropriate to anyone who has no idea about secondary realease, by the way there is no point to agonise to cut the hook or not anyone who prefers to get the stopper can do that just by going to any kiteshop and get the stupid ball with 2 or even 3 holes and take 5 min to put it on case close, personally I love the hook and mini loop.

If you want a stopper see Darren at AKS he has the north stopper which I had on my first GT. Fitted in around 5 mins.

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Kitehard said...

I've been riding the Cores a fair bit and have had no problem and I like the hook to rest my arms on long tacks or when bringing a lost board back upwind.

lol. ^^^
Noodle-arms anybody ?
Maybe control bars should be fitted with comfy arm rests.
Yet another tangley thing for a death-leash to wrap itself around.
haha.

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waveslave said...

Kitehard said...
I've been riding the Cores a fair bit and have had no problem and I like the hook to rest my arms on long tacks or when bringing a lost board back upwind.

lol. ^^^
Noodle-arms anybody ?
Maybe control bars should be fitted with comfy arm rests.

they used to be called main loops