Hi all,

I've currently got an 07 12 boxer and am very happy with it - just want to know how the new sigma shaped kites are holding up? Do they wear more than the previous shapes, and are there any disadvantages to the shape?

I'm considering purchasing an 08 cult and would like to know if they are much better than the 07 kites?

Cheers

glenno,if youve been riding the old boxer,your gonna be pretty happy on the cult!.you wont have any problems with the new canopy,just make sure you pump it up rock hard...the cult will have more pull on the bottom end,ridiculous top end,and will just feel crispier in your hands....just make sure the bar has been fitted with the ''smart loop''...the boxer was good in its day,but kites have moved forward design wise alot...have fun

I'm an '08 Alliance owner and am still really happy with it. The biggest difference i found when i first started flying the sigma was how stable the canopy is; no fluttering at all. Now a full season of use and it's still looking good and flying as well as the day i first launched it.

Enjoy your Cult.

I dunno about that one about kites moving on-I ride Boxer SLEs and am on my 3rd-I tried the Cult for about a month and liked it a lot-it just wasn't that much better in any way over the Boxer SLE-also the Smart Loop is dumb IMO-I MUCH prefer to have the depower ABOVE the bar-much easier leverage pulling in or releasing the depower strap over the difficulties below the bar.

Again just an opinion-I wish Naish still made the Boxer SLE-I keep hunting down new ones.

Glenno the 08 Cult was the pick out of the sigma range for that year.
The 12 was a bit slow in flying speed and wont jump extremely high but if flies well and is a great wave kite.

The 10.5 and down are nice kites they do everything really well , the sigma shape works nice this kite will not invert ever and in high winds the shape delivers a smooth ride, if your riding flat water get the extensions , waves stay on the 20 mtr lines.

As for the bar its super nice and clean and the smart loop is nice once you get used to trimming the kite below the bar , you wont want to go back.

The only thing I remember was the bridle line which runs through the pulley will wear and eventually snap , Naish made you buy the whole bridle which sucked , I hope now you only have to buy the short replacement line for it.

As for comparing it with the 07 Boxer , its a better kite full stop.

Funny about the bridle I've snapped 4 on my 07 boxer those pulleys just hate the sand. All it takes for mine to clog up is one or two self launches/landings in the sand. I got the sh@ts in the end and put some heavy duty sailing rope there instead and can't tell the difference, and it doesn't matter how clogged those pulleys get that rope won't break!

I've got the smart loop on my boxer and love it - you get spoilt being able to adjust the depower right below the bar. It's interesting that a few are saying they're not as quick and don't boost as well I'm erring on the side of trying a different brand altogether Ie Slingshot rev.

Cheers

Yep I have to agree that the Cult's are a great kite. And i agree with the comment that Danza made the 12 is slow turning, I also have a 9 and that is fantastic, alot faster turning but still stable and predictable. I would love to give the 09 gear a go just to see what the improvements are like. Anway Glenno have fun with your purchase.

Glenno if you have got the cash the 09 range is so much better , the Helix is a kick ass kite that has been improved so much I could not believe it when I tried it.

I did not like the 08 helix for a number of reasons but the 09 range is all good.
As for jumping in the cults anything form 10.5 in the 08 range jumps big , the nine is probably one of the best nine mtr kites I have tried and owned and my biggest jumps have been done on that kite.

But the Rev has a big following so try them all and see what you like.

I'd be interetsed to hear if anyone's had an issue with the one pump system and all the LE to strut hose connections being internal ?
That's the only thing that's put me off trying one out, it seems it would be a MAJOR headache if anything came undone !

au rick,you just open up the zip on the strut and twist-lock off from the l.e.,the only issue ive encoutered is if ya got a big hand thats hard to fit inside...apart from that,they are hassle free...note too,because its internal,they wont split etc cause its not exposed to u.v's...give one a try,just pump the kite up hard as a rock!

au-rick
I have had the 9 and12 meter cults for over 12 months now and had absolutely no problems with the one pump and any connections between th LE and the struts.To be truthful I haven't even unzipped any of the struts.

No issues with any of the bladders in my Alliance.

I was told by a couple of shops that they tend to charge more to fix the sigma's because they're harder to work with due to the internal plumbing, but considering i've done all my and mate's repairs in the past i don't see the sigma's being any harder to work with.

They are a bit of a nightmare to work on and I bet they drop the concept in favour of an external system of some sort or just go individual inflation.

The are fiddly to work with. Each nozzle that fits into each strut, needs to taped very smoothly and cleanly with teflon tape (not easy to do, especially on smaller sizes), or they leak.

A puncture in a strut is hard to isolate, because that strut and the LE will go down, external systems are so much easier and better!

There is no way to stop the struts from over pressurising, when the kite is repeatedly crashed, by a rider who is learning unhooked tricks. Everytime the kite hits the water hard, a bit more air is pumped into the struts, and then the zips let go or the struts stitching lets go. We saw many kites with these issues when we sold that brand.

We could order Best kites with their similar E-Z pump system and we will not, and will not sell octopuss or E-Z type one pump kites.

I also reckon its a PITA to have to individually let down each strut, and then remember to do the valves up again, before you pump, its just a plain dumb design.

Slingshot licensed/Cabrinha type, external hoses with lock off clips, design/system is best.

The one pump systems like takoon, LF, etc where normal valves are connected with tube and lots of cable ties suck too, as they age they leak where the valve/hose connection is.

Flame suit on, but thats the truth folks, from people who repair lots of kites and who fly lots of different kites.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

Dont listen to Uncle Steve his still upset his not aloud to sell Naish or North.

Flame suit on you need it by the sounds of it your still burning inside.

But in saying that I wish that all kite companies would piss the one pump system off.

Love your work Steve.

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danza said...

Dont listen to Uncle Steve his still upset his not aloud to sell Naish or North.

Thats a really funny story actually Danza, why don't you tell the viewers your version?
Then I'll add in any bits that need to be drawn back to reality, but you go first mate, since you mentioned it? (note the post ratings Danza)
Upset, not likely. Amused, very much so!
Brand distribution in Oz is like watching kitesurfings version of the biggest loser!!!

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Flame suit on you need it by the sounds of it your still burning inside.

Maybe you should mention your affiliation to the brand though Danza, since we are having an "outing"?
Burning over what? Sounds like you are the deluded one mate.

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But in saying that I wish that all kite companies would piss the one pump system off.

Love your work Steve.

There is no credible recorded history of any real issue with the SS/Cab style external plumbed, isolatable, one pump system, so I reckon one pump is here to stay, get with the program. The Octopus/EZ pumps style, internal systems totally suck!!

Thanks for your help.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

Your Welcome

Cya

Good Winds

Dan

I agree with you Steve that the zipped tied system is not the best, especially when a line or bridle hooks onto the end of the zip tie and deflates your strut for you, luckily I had a spare zip tie in the car and was out in no time (could be a problem doing a downwinder).

Slightly off topic, I like the CAB setup (really neat and professional), the only issue I found is that if you smack your kite into something hard (water/land/whatever) the main inflation valve does not pop like the normal plug types but possibly causing the LE or struts to burst)

I don't know if anybody has had this experience but that is the only down side to the CAB system.

Cheers
Rich

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richswing said...

I agree with you Steve that the zipped tied system is not the best, especially when a line or bridle hooks onto the end of the zip tie and deflates your strut for you, luckily I had a spare zip tie in the car and was out in no time (could be a problem doing a downwinder).

Slightly off topic, I like the CAB setup (really neat and professional), the only issue I found is that if you smack your kite into something hard (water/land/whatever) the main inflation valve does not pop like the normal plug types but possibly causing the LE or struts to burst)

I don't know if anybody has had this experience but that is the only down side to the CAB system.

Cheers
Rich

Yeah some brands cover the cable ties with heat shrink (Ozone), or neoprene (Takoon), which I think is a good idea.

The Cabs, hmmm, never had an issue of the LE blowing out on kite from 2007 onwards (SB3 and CB3) and even before that it was rare unless there was another pre existing issue, like loose stitching or a cut.

We have a local guy that can smack his SB1 in so hard that he can get the valve to pop, but I think the thread on the valve is a bit screwed.

The only downside I have seen to the external hoses systems, is that inexperienced helpers and kiters grab the kite when land it and they pull a hose off.

If the external systems have shut off or isolating clips on the struts, then they should be used all the time so that even in the very rare event that a LE goes down, you still have the flotation of the struts.
Kites fly better with the struts isolated from the LE chamber.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

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If the external systems have shut off or isolating clips on the struts, then they should be used all the time so that even in the very rare event that a LE goes down, you still have the flotation of the struts.
Kites fly better with the struts isolated from the LE chamber.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

I have always been too lazy to isolate my struts on my Cabs, what kind of noticeable difference does it make to the flying characteristics? Enough to make me less lazy?

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Paul1 said...

If the external systems have shut off or isolating clips on the struts, then they should be used all the time so that even in the very rare event that a LE goes down, you still have the flotation of the struts.
Kites fly better with the struts isolated from the LE chamber.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

I have always been too lazy to isolate my struts on my Cabs, what kind of noticeable difference does it make to the flying characteristics? Enough to make me less lazy?

I can feel the difference in the way the kite turns and boosts, so I always clip them off.
When you sheet in you are bending the LE into tighter arc, and this forces some air into the struts, then when you sheet out that increased pressure in the struts will flow back into the LE, the kites just feels crisper, when the stuts are locked off.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

Thanks a lot Steve, I will give it a go next time out

Mate these kites are as tough as nails i have flogged the shti out of mine getting towed in by the wave every session and they still look like new as for the one pump system works very well haven't had a problem with one yet this year at all.

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Kitepower Australia said...

They are a bit of a nightmare to work on and I bet they drop the concept in favour of an external system of some sort or just go individual inflation.

The are fiddly to work with. Each nozzle that fits into each strut, needs to taped very smoothly and cleanly with teflon tape (not easy to do, especially on smaller sizes), or they leak.

A puncture in a strut is hard to isolate, because that strut and the LE will go down, external systems are so much easier and better!

There is no way to stop the struts from over pressurising, when the kite is repeatedly crashed, by a rider who is learning unhooked tricks. Everytime the kite hits the water hard, a bit more air is pumped into the struts, and then the zips let go or the struts stitching lets go. We saw many kites with these issues when we sold that brand.

We could order Best kites with their similar E-Z pump system and we will not, and will not sell octopuss or E-Z type one pump kites.

I also reckon its a PITA to have to individually let down each strut, and then remember to do the valves up again, before you pump, its just a plain dumb design.

Slingshot licensed/Cabrinha type, external hoses with lock off clips, design/system is best.

The one pump systems like takoon, LF, etc where normal valves are connected with tube and lots of cable ties suck too, as they age they leak where the valve/hose connection is.

Flame suit on, but thats the truth folks, from people who repair lots of kites and who fly lots of different kites.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

If they haven't dropped it yet, i doubt they will. I'm a fan of the system and I don't even fly a naish anymore. I had nothing but good experiences with them, and I'll say quite honestly that I've seen more issues with external system than the Naish system. I've seen the non-neoprene covered clips on some kites tear the canopy on a hard knock to the water. I've seen tubes pop off with with cable ties over them.

I also find it sad to see any retailer talking poorly of a kite brand they don't sell, especially in a public forum. I would have thought you would have learnt your lessons by now, Steve?

Saffer its about the system, not about just one of the brands that use it.
Not all Kitepower shops are unable to sell that brand!!!!. All the Kitepower shops sell the other brand that uses that design, but none of the Kitepower shops sell Best kites with E-Z pump.
The fact remains, that there are known issues with that single point inflation sytem design, and all I've done is talk about the issues out in the open.

My opinion as a repairer and user is valid, as is everyone else's. Some people say they have had a great run with the kites with this system, but others have nightmares, especially as the kites age or if the kite is used for learning unhooked tricks and is crashed heavily, at high speed, a lot.

My posts are not a brand beat up, so don't try to twist it that way, please. They are critical of the system, or the design of the system. There is more than one brand that uses the same system.
Somethings look like a great idea in theory and in brochures but in practice they are not so good, and thats all I have said.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

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Kitepower Australia said...

They are a bit of a nightmare to work on and I bet they drop the concept in favour of an external system of some sort or just go individual inflation.

Not entirley true, yes a bit more fiddly then any other kite with external one pump, or no one pump..but that being said, i have worked on maybe 2 Naish internal systems since i started kiteing and working in the industry...i have replaced many many more external one pump systems and individual systems.

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Kitepower Australia said...
The are fiddly to work with. Each nozzle that fits into each strut, needs to taped very smoothly and cleanly with teflon tape (not easy to do, especially on smaller sizes), or they leak.

Nope, not realy, as long as there is a good seal they will be fine and as long as it clips into the two notches there should be no leaks...and yes smaller sizes are harder to work on..getting your hand in there sucks. But it can be done....

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Kitepower Australia said...
A puncture in a strut is hard to isolate, because that strut and the LE will go down, external systems are so much easier and better!

Yeah the strut and the LE will go down, but that itself isolates the strut, therefore eliminating everything else. nothing a bit of soapy water cant find.

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Kitepower Australia said...

There is no way to stop the struts from over pressurising, when the kite is repeatedly crashed, by a rider who is learning unhooked tricks. Everytime the kite hits the water hard, a bit more air is pumped into the struts, and then the zips let go or the struts stitching lets go. We saw many kites with these issues when we sold that brand.

I also reckon its a PITA to have to individually let down each strut, and then remember to do the valves up again, before you pump, its just a plain dumb design.

Noooooo, and yes, the pressurising of the struts could be a problem, but the bomb-proof buld of Naish, which has been there from day dot, rarely fails.

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Kitepower Australia said...
Flame suit on, but thats the truth folks, from people who repair lots of kites and who fly lots of different kites.

Ditto.....

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chalmers said...

Kitepower Australia said...
A puncture in a strut is hard to isolate, because that strut and the LE will go down, external systems are so much easier and better!

Yeah the strut and the LE will go down, but that itself isolates the strut, therefore eliminating everything else. nothing a bit of soapy water cant find.

Spot on. Anyone who can't work out where the problem is can't be too bright. If the leading edge goes down, then its the leading edge. If the leading edge and one strut goes down, its in that strut, not exactly rocket science.

I also haven't seen too many Naish leading edges go. I have on the other hand seen a large number of cabrinha leading edges go in the last couple of years and Kitepower hasn't ditched them yet.

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Saffer said...

chalmers said...

Kitepower Australia said...
A puncture in a strut is hard to isolate, because that strut and the LE will go down, external systems are so much easier and better!

Yeah the strut and the LE will go down, but that itself isolates the strut, therefore eliminating everything else. nothing a bit of soapy water cant find.

Spot on. Anyone who can't work out where the problem is can't be too bright. If the leading edge goes down, then its the leading edge. If the leading edge and one strut goes down, its in that strut, not exactly rocket science.

I also haven't seen too many Naish leading edges go. I have on the other hand seen a large number of cabrinha leading edges go in the last couple of years and Kitepower hasn't ditched them yet.

Saffer its not about the brands that use the design, its about the design.

Luke has only seen/worked on a a couple of kites, we have done at least 10-12 and they are a poor design in our/my opinion.
They are much more problematic to fix and keep from leaking. Sometimes the valves in the struts don't seal well or leak (backflow), so when there is a puncture in another strut of the LE, then you have real issues determining where the actual problem is, and detergent does not help.

The other external design system is used on far more kites, so its fair that a shop or repairer will see more of them. I doubt that they are seeing them because of issues with the design though? Detergent will detect any problem, simple and fast.

There have been various issues on both designs, one of the most annoying is the valves peeling off (happens to one of the internal pump designs, that I have worked on).

Leading edges splitting, all brands have had their fair share of this over the years. Some have made real design changes, others have done nothing and just keep pumping out kites that have a weakness in the LE closing seam, but thats another story.

Last years and this years cabrinha kites have one of the strongest leading edge closure seams, ask any decent sailmaker.

Cya and

Goodwinds

steve

I wish the Jew fish I try and catch at night would bite like you Steve.

Love your work , your always good entertainment on Seabreeze.

Cya

and where are those NE winds

Dan

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Kitepower Australia said...

Saffer said...

chalmers said...

Kitepower Australia said...
A puncture in a strut is hard to isolate, because that strut and the LE will go down, external systems are so much easier and better!

Yeah the strut and the LE will go down, but that itself isolates the strut, therefore eliminating everything else. nothing a bit of soapy water cant find.

Spot on. Anyone who can't work out where the problem is can't be too bright. If the leading edge goes down, then its the leading edge. If the leading edge and one strut goes down, its in that strut, not exactly rocket science.

I also haven't seen too many Naish leading edges go. I have on the other hand seen a large number of cabrinha leading edges go in the last couple of years and Kitepower hasn't ditched them yet.

Saffer its not about the brands that use the design, its about the design.

Luke has only seen/worked on a a couple of kites, we have done at least 10-12 and they are a poor design in our/my opinion.
They are much more problematic to fix and keep from leaking. Sometimes the valves in the struts don't seal well or leak (backflow), so when there is a puncture in another strut of the LE, then you have real issues determining where the actual problem is, and detergent does not help.

The other external design system is used on far more kites, so its fair that a shop or repairer will see more of them. I doubt that they are seeing them because of issues with the design though? Detergent will detect any problem, simple and fast.

There have been various issues on both designs, one of the most annoying is the valves peeling off (happens to one of the internal pump designs, that I have worked on).

Leading edges splitting, all brands have had their fair share of this over the years. Some have made real design changes, others have done nothing and just keep pumping out kites that have a weakness in the LE closing seam, but thats another story.

Last years and this years cabrinha kites have one of the strongest leading edge closure seams, ask any decent sailmaker.

Cya and

Goodwinds

steve

The difference, Steve, is you never feel the need to express yourself about a negative point on a Cabrinha kite, only non-Cabrinha brands. If a cabrinha leading edge bursts, its due to over inflating by the user, if a naish leading edge bursts, its due to a problem with the one pump system

Remember the BEST days when BEST was simply the BEST AND Uncle Steve would slag all the other brands and then he ended up slagging BEST as well.

Deluded , their is only one person deluded on Seabreeze and thats you Steve.
He pimps a brand then he slags it , he then pimps it and then he slags it and the story goes on.



Cya

Which brand am I going to slag now.

And Good winds

Dan

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danza said...



I wish the Jew fish I try and catch at night would bite like you Steve.

Love your work , your always good entertainment on Seabreeze.

Cya

and where are those NE winds

Dan

NE was in nicely today Dan, you should get out more, you might see things in a more rational and positive light?

As for baiting, I recommend smearing everything with PIMP juice, as you have been in this thread. Pimp juice berley works well in here, so should help you with the jewies!

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McPimphunter