On ikiteboarding...

http://forums.ikiteboarding.com/forums/thread/21499.aspx

Thats a pretty goods review! Please note that the Alliance is a 7 strut Sigma kite also, not 5 strut as noted in the Review.

The Alliance offers all the great features that we expect from the Torch , but with all the benefits of the SIGMA and GEO-TECH. The Alliance is going to change the way you think a Freestyle kite should feel! This kite rocks!

Hopefully arriving this week! Wahoo!!!!!

Regards,

JB

Just had a quick session on the 12m.

Very light wind, 10 - 12 knots. Choppy, small waves.

I found the kite very powerful, I was the only one going up wind out of many riders all on 12m's and bigger.

Turning speed was great, better than I remember.

I was able to go down the line and get some good hits, normally very hard in such light wind.

All up, Super stoked, except now my quiver has grown bigger again! Oh well, he who dies with the most toys wins eh!

JB

JB, from your message I take it the alliance's have finally arrived?? Sure hope you put mine in the mail before you went out kiting.

Sure did, All the pre-ordered Alliances have been packed are are leaving in freight this afternoon. You can expect them in your local store Monday or Tuesday for the east coast depending on where you are, and hopefully Friday for W.A.

There's still some left in this shipment but not many left, but I do have more coming next month. Check out your local dealer next week for a Demo!

JB

What did you think of it when you flew it yesterday?

Also have you managed to find out what country North sent the new bars and when do you expect them here?

As written above on the Alliance,

As for the North bars, Don't know yet, hoping there will be some answers today, we couldn't get a hold of the Factory on Friday as it was a public holiday in Hong Kong. We will let you all know as soon as we can confirm the bars will be here. It will hopefully be this week!

Regards,

JB

Sometimes the customer just has to wait in line to see his kite.

This is the Blue Alliance
www.seabreeze.com.au/gallery/gallery.asp?imageid=6587

Ral Inn,

I picked up mine today. Same colour as the one pictured. BrisKites also had a 12m in a Sky Blue/Orange Combination. Not sure which colour was on the Leading Edge.

Had a short run on the 12m Alliance after a quick run down to Altona.

probably 17-20kts everything as per factory settings.

very quickly moved steering lines to most powered knots on leader lines as all bar travel before steering lines going total slack was in first 150mm. this made a big difference but new caretaker of kite took it from then.

All I can say is Torch fans will find this kite right up their alley.

I thought the website showed a sliding stopper above the bar, but this bar had none??? On the bar, very clean and uncluttered.

RAL INN how would you rate the kite against the torch, is it that much better, how is the turning speed we all know the torch turns quiet fast is the alliance quicker in the turns.

No hype just the truth.

The stopper was a two piece flat bit of plastic in the bag, easy to fit. The kite is very similar to the Torch, the bar pressure is a bit lighter and it turns about 10 to 15% quicker. Also there is a lot more de-power on the Alliance than the Torch, too much in my opinion, but will suit a lot of riders who learnt on Bow kites. Overall, I really liked the kite, just as much if not more than last years torch, only had a go for about an hour, will know more after a couple of sessions on it.

I should of asked you Tony if you wanted to keep going after you changed the knots on the bar, i just assumed you came in to change over, sorry bud.

I enjoy the ALLIANCE more and more each session.

Yes the ALLIANCE comes at a fairly de-powered state straight out of the bag, and advanced riders, moving the back lines in one knott will give you a bit more grunt.

As said above the stopper is in the bag, and really easy to fit.

Torch customers are going to love this kite, it is better than T3 in every way.

Regards,

JB

quote:

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Originally posted by danza

RAL INN how would you rate the kite against the torch, is it that much better, how is the turning speed we all know the torch turns quiet fast is the alliance quicker in the turns.

No hype just the truth.

---

The truth is I didn't much like the Torch3 12m. I thought it lacked grunt in comparison to the 10m and 14m. the 10 being a real standout kite to me.
The short time i had was underpowered but it really felt like a Torch.
If you liked Torch3 then there is absolutely nothing about this kite that will disappoint you.
Just add even more depower range, and stable Stop&Go(rest on tip no hands).
what I found hard, was the depower system. in as much as the 5th line gets in the way and the rope is hard to engage back into cleat. Of course having time to get used to that will clear 90% of the problem.

I went straight from the Alliance 12m to use a Thruster 12m 07. The Alliance is way kinder but please don't anyone say the Alliance has heaps of bottom end Grunt. it has heaps of bottom end upwind ability, but if you talk GRUNT, don't till you have tried the Thruster. Of course Grunt is only a part of it and the Alliance has a lot of performance characteristics that form its package.
I would say that Naish have done a great job of delivering a package aimed at Torch lovers. In the form of a Sigma series kite.

I did try a couple of bottom turns on some slushy on shore waves which the kite didn't want to turn on. but Bowski got to try it with the extra power setting and commented that it was a good wave setup.

Overall I believe this kite will be a great performer when in well powered conditions.

I would have to disagree with you on the bottom end there RAL. I rode yesterday in that light SE in the morning. When I measured the wind before my session if was gusting to just over 10 knots, and the average was around 8. I am 95 kg, and was able to wave ride and go up wind on the Naish 5'5" Fish. This was a 12m, but it was on the more powered setting (back lines in one knot). I think you will find the ALLIANCE very grunty on the powered setting and it also makes the kite turn faster also. having not ridden the thruster, I can't compare grunt, but I don't think anyone will dis appointed with the bottom end of the ALLIANCE. Hanging to get out in some real wind on it!

Regards,

JB

JB,

Just a question on your setup. Do you mean the backlines on the shortest knot (third)? What knot did you have the front lines on?

Cheers

quote:

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Originally posted by JB

I would have to disagree with you on the bottom end there RAL. I rode yesterday in that light SE in the morning. When I measured the wind before my session if was gusting to just over 10 knots, and the average was around 8. I am 95 kg, and was able to wave ride and go up wind on the Naish 5'5" Fish. This was a 12m, but it was on the more powered setting (back lines in one knot). I think you will find the ALLIANCE very grunty on the powered setting and it also makes the kite turn faster also. having not ridden the thruster, I can't compare grunt, but I don't think anyone will dis appointed with the bottom end of the ALLIANCE. Hanging to get out in some real wind on it!

Regards,

JB

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Hey JB, not sure if it was settings on the kite or maybe line lengths, but I was there with him at the time and adjusted the rear lines to the last knot while his kite was at the edge of the window. When he pulled in the bar there was little or no pull except for the last couple of inches (I walked over to ask him what it was like because I hadn't seen an alliance yet). With the last knot there was a little more pull but it definitely wasn't quite as grunty as I expected.

On the up side, I was amazed how stable it was and how it reacts like a bow by sitting at the edge of the window waiting around when you depower it completely. He left it at the edge of the window on the water and I adjusted the knots and it just sat there like someone was holding it. Very nice!

We set the rear lines at the bar leader lines to the most powered knot which was right at the pu tube ending.the front line(bar end) was on second knot in, I contemplated moving this but felt that would tension the 5th and counteract the effect.
At the kite the front lines were set at max length.
after the change there are no further settings that would increase AoA.
Thanks for the assistance Saffer.

Please don't confuse my reference to grunt with bottom end. I believe this kite powers very well upwind in its bottom end. and I was using a 125X39cm board and I also weigh 95kg( just obviously a more handsome 95kg than JB)

Thanks for that Ral
I thought about changing to the third knot but wasn't sure if it was there just to hold back the pv tube. Should have read the instructions more closely. I was also a bit concerned about not choking the kite as the wind was light(12kn).

I also thought that last knot was to hold the PU tube, but used it anyway.
Let us know how you went.

The third knot is for line adjustment. If you lengthened the front line at the bar end out, it would not effect the 5th line, the bungy will stretch out the difference. The 5th line locks at the "Y" connection point and keeps a set length no matter what bar setting you use.

JB

Of course you are going to say the Eclipse is more powerful RAL. You are the importer after all

Select to expand quote

justdoit said...

Of course you are going to say the Eclipse is more powerful RAL. You are the importer after all

A couple of points here.
1. I taught the Importer of Eclipse to Kite, and am good friends with him and help him a lot. But RAL Innovations is a retailer of Eclipse just like others in the country.

2. I did not say the Eclipse was more powerful and actually went to pains to clarify what I did say. read the words carefully.

I will restate that the Alliance was obviously(to me) aimed straight at the market of Torch3 enthusiasts and Naish hit the mark. The 12m Alliance is heaps better than the 12m T3, which should go even better for the 10 and 14m variants.

there's those hypnotic boobs again!!!

We had a good demo on the week end at Dolls, Great responce to the ALLIANCE, we had a 14m up, and the wind was light. I took reading of 7 knots gusting to 9, and was able to ride upwind and jump (with dolls tide assistance), but turning speed of the 14m is really good, kite loop jumps and transitions were easy even in the lighter holes. As I said before, this ,kite just keep getting better and better.

Regards,

JB

I had a good couple of hours on my 14m Alliance on the weekend. It was definately worth the wait!
However as noticed by Ral Inn, the depower & 5th line are very close together. I grabbed the 5th twice by accident. But on the + side the relaunch was quite easy. I'm sure i will get use to it and it sure beats reaching above the bar!

I have had a look at the smart loop tonight, ideally I think the 5th line should run up the underneath side of the Smart Loop. I was thinking of adding a small ring between the Donkey D!ck and the Smart loop (on the chicken loop) so that the 5th runs more behind the depower lines. Does anyone have anything constructive to say on the topic?

Just had another quick session on the 14m Alliance, man I love this kite. It is everything and more! Mind blowing. Excellent, waves, freestyle, ah everything! Just had to get that out!

JB

Jb whats your overall favourite , Alliance , Cult , Helix I know they are all different but if you had to pick one what would it be.

I have both Cult and Alliance,

Cult (7.5m, 10.5m & 13.5m) is light and has a massive wind range, great for varying conditions. It responds very quickly and has great drift for wave riding.

Alliance (10m, 12m & 14m) is powerful in the same way the T3 was (and the T4 is), Very direct feel with the bar. Turning speed is fast and the tracks around the turns.

For me, in nice conditions and for freestyle, the ALLIANCE wins hands down. If the winds a bit funky, or the conditions are challenging the CULT is amazing. I prefer the feel of SHIFT (5 lines) over SLE (bridals) and always have, I think thats just my riding style preference, and I love the static power of the ALLIANCE (as mentioned, it's like T3&4).

I guess I am lucky enough to be able to have so many kites, but if I had to choose a 2 kite quiver, I'd probably go 12m ALLIANCE and 9m Cult (possibly 7.5m CULT), but I ride a lot of waves on wave boards. If I was just on a TT I'd go 14m ALLIANCE & 10.5m CULT.

There are so many combinations to go for, (please note, these are only my opinions for riders that are happy on any control system, Kite choice would be different for riders that prefer only one, either SLE or SHIFT)

100+kg rider, cruiser. 16m HELIX or 15m CULT & 12m HELIX.
100+kg rider, Freestyle. 16m ALLIANCE & 12m ALLIANCE
100+kg rider, Waves. 13.5m CULT & 10.5m CULT or 9m HELIX
100+kg rider, boosting. 16m HELIX & 12m Helix
100+kg rider, everything. All SIGMA's

90kg rider, cruiser. 13.5m CULT or 14m HELIX & 9m HELIX or CULT.
90kg rider, Freestyle. 14m ALLIANCE & 10m ALLIANCE
90kg rider, Waves. 12m CULT & 9m CULT
90kg rider, boosting. 14m HELIX & 9m Helix
90kg rider, everything. All SIGMA's

80kg rider, cruiser. 13.5m CULT & 9m CULT.
80kg rider, Freestyle. 12m ALLIANCE & 8m ALLIANCE
80kg rider, Waves. 10.5m CULT & 7.5m CULT
80kg rider, boosting. 12m HELIX & 9m CULT or HELIX.
80kg rider, everything. All SIGMA's

<70kg rider, cruiser. 10.5m CULT & 7.5m CULT.
<70kg rider, Freestyle. 12m ALLIANCE & 8m ALLiANCE
<70kg rider, Waves. 10.5m CULT & 7.5m CULT
<70kg rider, boosting. 12m CULT & 7.5m CULT
<70kg rider, everything. All SIGMA's

There is also the CODE, ETA is Mid-December. This kite is very similar to the CULT but cheaper, no octopus.

Anyway, the best way to see what you like is to DEMO them, so pretty much ignore all that crap above!

Regards,

JB

Yep I have gone 9 cult and a 12 cult, I guess I prefer surf now so the cult is the one.I will never get to the stage of doing handle passes and the surf is not as hard on the knees.

Had a mate demo the Rebel , switchblade , revolver and helix and he could not go past the cult, he was so impressed the way the kite turned in the surf he had to go and get the cults.

I was never a fan of bridles and pulleys but the cult feels like a c kite , the transition was very easy, but I still like 5 line set ups as well.

Thanks for the informative post.You got it right with me 90 kg wet and waves I have a 9 and 12 cult, so have three other mates of mine.

I vary 87 - 90 kilo, I have decided, and am very happy on the 9, 12 & 14 Helix.
I enjoy alot more then if I just struggle around on 1 or even 2 kite's, working in with the seasons changes summer winter. I swap between 20 mtr lines & bar and 25's. So its like having six kites. Still struggling with the chicken loop and don't think I will ever think much of it. these kites are the most fun I have had in ages. I moved from c's 2 years ago to the crossbows mainly for the safety however it removed a far bit of the rush for me. helix has put alot of the buzz back for me. I find it hits the spot, c power and thrills and bow safety and wind range.