65kg
Beginner
Bought a second hand kite to learn on and now ready to buy new kite.
Going by reviews only I feel either a 9m wainman rabbit or airush lithium would be a good choice as An all rounder kite to take me to the next level.
Your thoughts would be appreciated

Okay get in touch with Mike Birt in the UK. He will let you know a lot about the lithium. I've owned and ridden both so I do know a bit.

Both are well made, stable, great flying kites with very good bar systems. This year it seems wainmen might have one pump and thank farq for that.

Both kites would be sweet to start with. The Lithium has that airush refined feel, smooth. The smoke is much quicker and has an enormous wind range. Don't know why but the delta in the lithuim tends to affect its upper range performance more than the smoke...might be the upwind bridal changes you can make on the smoke.


The smoke has a lot more bridal variations and can be ridden as a full C if you wish...but honestly I tended to put it on the same settings most the time anyhow.

The smoke is a much better wave kite. The lithuim is fine though in the waves, smokes drifts and turn better, more direct feel through the steering.


Thing is you are only 65kg...you need Mike to explain this to you better than I, but putting yourself on say either kite, especially the Lithuim, is like putting a truck engine on a scooter. Becuase you don't weigh enough you will find it hard to get that kite around the window when you stomp on the edge, so it will be sitting back in the window a lot...this drags you downwind so you will have to edge your ankles off...which ultimately reduces the upper end. Also makes it harder to really load and get vertical rather than getting pulled downwind so much on your jumps.

Mike talks a lot about the undervaluation of weight versus the type of kite one gets...just google the dude a wealth of knowledge hey...and someone that contributes to the sport rather than spread bullsht from a keyboard all the time, without providing any real value or information (I have been getting a little tired lately of some crew....think I need another seabreeze break,,lol).

Personally at your weight I feel you should look for something with a tad more aspect and /or a bridalling/geometry set up that gets that kite more easily around the window. Both these kites have real grunt that a bigger guy can really use. I know I ride with one daily on a smoke and I ride at the same time a fair bit with another on a lithuim. These guys are real chunky type, not fat just bigger guys if you know what I mean.

But if this is your two kite choice then maybe the smoke...see how you like the power delivery they do kind of the same thing.

Also remember this is only my opinion I know guys that love each one.

Have you considered a Naish Park? Or a Core XR? ....little more aspect on these babies....

Email me if ya wanna talk some more mate, plenty do. Also email all the other guys on the forum you notice providing useful, helpful info...tap into as many as you can.

Hey mjkennon
I just upgraded my kites and went for a 9m smoke and a 12 m boss. I was looking for powerful all-round kites that would hopefully excel my progression in free ride, freestyle and waves. I have had my kites for about a month now and have been really happy with the performance of both kites. I find the smoke to be very powerful, stable and very forgiving which has given me more confidence on the water. The water relaunch is excellent, you only need the slightest amount of pressure on one steering line and the kite pops straight out of the water. This is a huge positive for me as I don???t like bobbing around near a seal colony at my local spot. The carrot stick bar is great, it has above the bar depower which is very easy to operate even when the kite is powered, push away safety system and the bar ends are as soft as pillows. Another thing that I like about the bar is that the depower/safety line that runs through the bar is coated in plastic which stops it wearing out.
I also like that all the parts like bladders, swivels etc. are available on eBay from the Australian distributor so if you ever need them they are readily available.
If you???re looking for a good honest kite that does lots well I can recommend the smoke.
Any questions send me a pm.
Previous kite was an Ozone C4.

How much you weigh Ben?

I'm 90 kilo. I have only used the kite in pretty gusty ordinary winter conditions so I can't give you an accurate wind speed for when I depower but I'd say around 26 knots. I find the kite builds a lot of power with board speed and its harder to edge the power out of the kite than it was with my c4 10m. I ride a 142 board.

Yeh that's what I'm talking about Ben and MJ. Thanks for your honesty Ben.

Ben weighs a truck load more than you and has trouble sometimes edging out the power. How'd ya reckon you'd go mate at 65kg??

I know the guy I ride with has to come in every half an hour for a break while we keep kiting because he is stuffed. But he does ride hard and fast on a NHP board, a very good rider. But he has to edge so damn hard. And he is /was 90 plus. He's lost weight now and rides the new dice.

As I said MJ talk to mike birt he describes what I'm saying much better than me.

There are a few smaller guys over here riding the smoke and they really maximise their water time. I guess it comes down to what your average conditions are going to be and if you are prepared to get a smaller kite down the track for the windy days. Try and get your hands on a demo and have a go.

Yeh I agree with eppo on this. Ozone kites also work well with smaller crew but then I'm 95kegs and ride the reo so go figure

I didn't heed Mike's advice thought I knew better. Found out the hard way on the lithuim.

The smoke having the upwind bridal setting is the best bet if this is the way you want to go.

Defo Smoke, its just a very solid, big range, good boosting med aspect kite love mine and built to last

Phil

Select to expand quote

KiterBen said..

I'm 90 kilo. I have only used the kite in pretty gusty ordinary winter conditions so I can't give you an accurate wind speed for when I depower but I'd say around 26 knots. I find the kite builds a lot of power with board speed and its harder to edge the power out of the kite than it was with my c4 10m. I ride a 142 board.

look at your board size, ill assure you on a 135 youll have no dramas,

Select to expand quote

cauncy said..

KiterBen said..

I'm 90 kilo. I have only used the kite in pretty gusty ordinary winter conditions so I can't give you an accurate wind speed for when I depower but I'd say around 26 knots. I find the kite builds a lot of power with board speed and its harder to edge the power out of the kite than it was with my c4 10m. I ride a 142 board.

look at your board size, ill assure you on a 135 youll have no dramas,

I like the power delivery. I was just making a comparison with my previous kite which I also used a 142 board with.

As a Lithium devotee I'll chime in. I agree with eppo ;) I weigh in at a whopping 72 kg (158 lbs here in the states) and own 12m & 9 m 2013 Lithiums. It was also suggested by a shop owner that the Lithium's on the well powered end of their range are more of big boy's (or girl's) kite.

This all said I have one personal caveat about the Lithiums...There's just something about the way they feel; refined, performance, etc. I don't know but I don't mind there not being ideal for lighter weight riders.

My story:

The 12 m is my go to light wind kite on a surfboard starting at as little as 12 knots; although, in flat water conditions I've managed to have a great time right up to 22 knots on the same kite on a twintip. It was a stretch, but that's the thing on Lithium, it's a well behaved kite even when it's at the top of it's range. This being said for the upper end, it will pull hard and you'll find yourself sheeting out all the way - much in the way I would luff out a sail on my sailboat - but it's always under control. And if the wind backs off, you're back in business again. Compared to my previous kite, a 12 meter Cabrinha Switchblade, it has a knot or two less upper wind range.

As for the 9 meter Lithium, I can get going beginning in middle teens to start and I'm good until the mid twenties (knots). Beyond this I'm ready for my smaller kite. Your being 7 kg's lighter, I imagine the 9 would get you going in the mid teens no problem but will top out in the low twenties. You're blessed to be 65kg ;) I'm also relatively light and I've learned (intuitively) to make the Lithium work without it becoming a handful. It's just that kind of a kite; easy to figure out, plug n play, but NOT boring. This is what I mean about being intuitive. After demoing a series of fine kites, there's just something about the feel of this kite that makes up for its slightly smaller range on the high end.

I demoed a 9 meter Cabrinha Vector and it's a nice kite, but just not as dynamic as the Lithium (Vector doesn't have the power and slower in the turns, and the top end really isn't much better either). I used to own Cabrinha Switchblades (cut my teeth on those), ok but I'm not into wakestyle and they don't pivot turn well and are slow turning through the window by comparison. The North Rebels (Fuse - the 4 line version; both are winners in my book) are very refined and has a better range than the Lithiums especially lighter riders. I like the North's, but, but, it just didn't have that Airush feel. It's hard to explain and needs to be experienced.

I recently sold my high wind kite, a 7 meter Cabrinha Vector (nice but too sedate for my tastes). After consulting with Eppo and Mike Birt (aka product guru) I purchased the "higher aspect" Airush Varial 6 meter. There was little chance of demoing it or a smaller Lithium so I took the plunge and decided to air on the side of high aspect kites for winds over 22 knots. This being said, there are slews of smaller riders on little Lithiums that are perfectly happy with them. I'll probably post my experience on the Varial when the time arrives.

It's a personal thing. My point is to give you a perspective, albeit biased given my intermediate kiting skills and what I ride (surfboards / twin tips in small waves and open ocean swell). While you probably wouldn't be unhappy with any choice, they're are so many fine kites out there, you're best option is to DEMO a kite if you can. Ours are opinions, and while they have merit, they are biased and colored in my case through - Airush colored lenses. Btw, I'm not a team rider, etc., for Airush. Just an admirer of fine products.

Eppo,

How about the Varial for our friend? I hear they're not necessarily ideal for big riders. While they're not so much as a park and ride kite, but can be in enough wind with smaller riders I hear. They do have tremendous range (less likely to pull a lighter rider off their edge in the gusts) and have a nice response for beginners. Just a suggestion.

Ok there you go mjkennon more opinions and kites to consider. lol.

Big difference between the kites he's asking about and the Varial!! Not sure though on the new three strut design. The 2012 and 2013 models though I can comment on.

****en fast, hold onto your hats. Wave riding only good for onshore. Boosts immense. Yes good for lighter riders as it won't fly as forward in the window.

In all honesty if he has the coin, the dice has outstripped most all rounders on the market...or the ones I have ridden. VX is not really an all rounder per say.reckon it has a its own niche.