Rider: 70Kg, intermediate skill level
Style: Freeride & Surf
Weather: 18-25knots
Build Quality: 10/10
Satisfaction: 10/10
Disclosure: Pay for all my own gear, no association to any shops.

Had the chance to demo this board through KSS in Scarborough, thanks again Phil.
I have been looking for good all-rounder to suit Perth conditions i.e. choppy water with the occasional sloppy wave thrown in to the mix. Having read many forums Eppo's review on the Mako (www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Kitesurfing/Review/Mako-King-and-Mako-140-sublime/?page=1&SearchTerms=mako ) got me interested. If you want a detailed review of this board I would recommend reading Eppo's write up as my experience on this board is only based on a 3 day demo.

The standout features of this board are the oval shape, huge concave with mini-tucked rails and boards rocker. Conventional TT's tend to use a more rectangular shape, my initial thoughts are that the oval shape allows for smoother transition edge to edge during carving turns, but then again I am no design expert. Concave (18mm according to the marketing blurb) and rocker on this board are huge and add to the smooth ride through the chop and overall stability of the board. The base setup of the board is a twin tip setup, additional fins can used to convert this to a more mutant style but due to limited time (and laziness) I did not get around to changing the setup.

I mainly kite the Perth Northern beaches so this board was used in typical Perth conditions - 18-25 knot wind range, choppy with the occasional mush that some would call a wave. I did manage to get out to a better wave on one of the days and put this board through its paces. The rail to rail carving was impressive, very smooth and forgiving when it comes to my lack of wave experience on a kite.

To sum it up, if you are after a board that smooths out the chop and carves well in the average Perth slop give this board a go.

How does it go changing stance from toe to heel side?

Have been wondering if that huge concave makes it a bit too easy to catch a rail when going from heel-toe-heel (as I like to on waves)

^^ probably offset by increase in rocker would be my guess.

I too am interested in this board.

I've written a thorough review on this board. Know how much phil is selling them for at KSS??

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getfunky said...
How does it go changing stance from toe to heel side?

Have been wondering if that huge concave makes it a bit too easy to catch a rail when going from heel-toe-heel (as I like to on waves)

I picked up a 150 last week (thanks Eppo for the recommendation) Have not been able to try it out on anything other than waste high waves yet but the one stand out quality I did notice is the smoooooooooth transitions from heel to toe side.

That and the massive boosts that you can load up on the thing. Can't figure out why that is the case but this board just fires you up.

Check it out if you can.

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junglist said...

That and the massive boosts that you can load up on the thing. Can't figure out why that is the case but this board just fires you up.

Check it out if you can.

I agree completely. The Mako is way left of centre and takes a lot to get your head around.
When I first started to learn about board shape & design I was told to always analyse the shape in terms of the water flow. Applying this rule my latest guess is thats its all in the huge concave. This would channel a large volume of water from the edges to the centre. With enough water flow central under the hull it may give a hydrfoil/lift/jet type effect which may be what neutralises the chop; assist in allowing the edge to bite - even without outside fins??; and may create the amazing turning ability people talk about.

Hoping we get a few design gurus in to check them out & ride them. There must be logical, sound reasons that translate to the performance. Im really just guessing.

We have the 140 & 150 & the King available for demo as both Mutant & TT.

So apart from smooth carves, cutting chop and apparently big boosts, what else does this board do well? Is it easy enough to throw it around in say small pop tricks off the chop?

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bene313 said...
So apart from smooth carves, cutting chop and apparently big boosts, what else does this board do well?

What more is there?

No seriously, if you are asking is this board a freestyle board then no it isn't. Its a fair prediction that you wont see it heading the podium on the PKRA any time soon (unless they change the rules from spider monkey style) and the wake style guys are not going to get much out of it either.

Its just a really nice smooth free riding board that is a great TT in the waves and boosts huge. Personally thats perfect for me.

I'll have to give one a try.

I haven't used a twin tip in some time, but looking at getting back on one. Freestyle isn't my thing but I would like to try a few small tricks in the small waves/chop.

does anybody know where I can get a demo in the sydney region?

I rode eppo's 140 for a couple of hours in cross on mushy surf with some dumpy shoulder/ head high sets coming through. first up on the 15m speed up to 18 ish knots. then on the 11 edge. I really enjoyed the 140. It was fast and chuckable. sliced and carved up the waves real nice. Held a tight line fowards and backwards. rode through the chop super smooth.

15m speed 3 at 18 knots is pretty damn powered and not an easy kite to handle in surf conditions up and the marko handled the power sweeetly. boosting of wave lips was a thing of beauty.

I'd say it rides like a size or 2 smaller TT as far as throwability. maybe if your on a 132,135 TT then this 140 will be your sizing.

Negatives? not many to by fair. It got a bit twitchy at speed and I found it more catchy doing floaters on white wash. I put the catchness down to the concave but it could have been the bigger fins Eppo's uses.

All in all a fine peice of equipment. If your charging chop and waves powered then this is the board for you. I have no idea why any one would use a square tipped standard TT after trying one of these out in those conditions

Yeh that's my call to. Round edges for the surf. I have dropped the fin size down to only 50 in the middle and 45 on the sides. Kept the mako56 on the single end for grip. Be interesting to see how it goes. Also after riding the 150 went full TT with the king and just have the 56s at each end. Again be interesting to see how it goes.

Yeh I can hold the 140 to some serious winds on the 11m edge. But you need the mutant fins in, I have found the back end can slip out when loading up edge style. Front foot pressure can reduce this but you don't want to muck around when you are working with the power the edge generates.

Thing is they feel so much better TT only in the surf as I found out at wedge, two glorious sessions.

Can't have it all I suppose. All that catchiness is not present. Must admit the surf we were in was quite choppy with plummett. No real smooth flat section past the onshore waves. And the wind was really cross on which doesn't help. Kept getting disorientated in the air, used to a more southerly direction down here.

how do you reckon one surf fin(the 10 cm one) in the middle on your prefered end with the normal TT fin at the other end would go?

Looking at the pics it seems like the extreme concave makes the rails almost act like outside fins. Is this the case?

well it was not ideal conditions but that made for a good test. perfect conditions are easy on most boards. PS i'm used to that wind angle. It blows cross on at my local 80% of the time.

Anyway i found going backwards on the 1 fin to hold ample power. You could definately run it one fin front and back for more slidy action.

I used to run a 10cm surf fin on my mutnant and it was sweeeeeeeet on the wave face but a pain in the arse doing slide transitions. it made the board more of a directional. really good one way and crappy the other. plus you can't blaze the shallows with big surf fins in.

I say no to big 10 cm fins unless you want to shred super clean double head waves and then only survive going backwards.

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Plummet said...

I say no to big 10 cm fins unless you want to shred super clean double head waves and then only survive going backwards.

I wouldnt change the makos fin size personally. It tracks upwind very well,140 size gives u a little more low end wind range compared to the average punters TT and planes quickly given its narrow width.

Highly rate this board for major choppy conditions,messy open ocean waves and some old school tricks. Super smooth feel,forgiving on the knees but yes twitchy at high speed in any water
conditions.

Shmick waves and u cant go past a surfie tho

Thats my 2c

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bennie said...
how do you reckon one surf fin(the 10 cm one) in the middle on your prefered end with the normal TT fin at the other end would go?

Looking at the pics it seems like the extreme concave makes the rails almost act like outside fins. Is this the case?

I suppose they do as 140 seems fairly big right as you main TT but I can hold the 11m edge in 21 to 23.

Tried it with the above mentioned fin sizes today yeh liked it. Just that tad more looseness in the turns.

Bugger should've grabbed a demo for yesterday as I was overpowered on my 6m and surfboard. Ocean was choppy as, would've been good conditions for testing the 140!

Plummet posted a video of Franz Orly in another thread. That bloke has some serious style. I'm interested in this sort of riding as an alternative to the surfboard which I am usually on.

I'm guessing this is the sort of board Franz would be riding? Even with some of the unhooked stuff he throws?

I tried the Mako 140 yesterday. It was blowing around fifteen to twenty knots and well powered on my 12 m Lithium.

My first impression was how smooooooth the board is. It rolls over onshore chop with ease. If you have knee issues the Mako is a must have. I also like it's loose feel and playfulness in ocean rollers. It's surfy feel is somewhere between a regular twin tip and a surfboard, with a definitive lean toward a twin tip. In the gusts, the edge held like it was glued to the water without feeling locked in. It still has loose nature to it and it was all about control. I imagine this could be a one board take all, ridable right through nuking conditions.

It's a slightly different feel from what I'm used to, and this is the thing - getting familiar with it. I didn't care for it's upwind performance, or lack there of. After the session, I discussed this with my Mako friend. He told me it was necessary to adjust your riding technique to get the board to perform upwind. Instead of pressuring the tail, like on a regular twin tip, apply the weight evenly over both the front and back foot. This uses more of the waterline length to edge the board upwind. I'll want to try this the next time I'm out.

After riding the Mako, I switched off to my Shinn Dundee 133 x 42. My immediate impression was the feeling of coming home again. Again, it's a familiarity thing. The Dundee rocketed upwind and felt lively. While the Mako is crazy smooth, the Shinn is no slouch and easy on the knees as well. The Mako is so plush, it feels almost sedate. This isn't a bad thing, it's just that I'm used to a little more "alive" feel. The Shinn isn't what I'd call a loose board (could be a function of those relatively big freeride fins) and I like the looser Mako experience. In the gusts I needed to slow down to hold the bigger Dundee or would loose an edge. The Mako can go and go with my eyes closed...Was that a gust, what gust?

So like most gear, it's a compromise. I'd like to spend more time on the Mako but I wouldn't give up the Dundee for it. It all depends on what your preferences are, or moods. The Mako seems to have a niche of its own. I'd be happy to add it to my growing collection of toys.

A mate has just got a 150 mako saw it the other day huge concave,he's riding it with just one centre fin both ends and loves it,he reacons it rails ,I can't wait to give it a blast the day he showed it to me was ultra light so didn't give it a go but will do soon,from the look of it the rail would def hold with minimal fins, in the chop he says it's smooth as.

yep I had no trouble going "backwards" with one centre fin. held sweet as. Thinking of running on centre fin on my for ****s and giggles.

Well I have spent most of the season on the makos now. The 140, 150 and the King. The 140 is easy to throw around and you are right windtzu I have had an edge 11m out in 23 to 25 knots and I'm only 75kg..it grips so well. The King is the best carver out of the lot in the surf, can be ridden on the rail or flat down the line, this board still tracks flat unlike a TT which can get a bit squirrelly.

The 150 is the smoothest out of the lot. Must be something to do with the length versus width versus concave. I was out yesterday on a 14m 2013 cat, real late, one of those crazy half an hour kites where you are setting up as the sun goes down!! The wind had really picked up, I still had three metre extensions for the lighter winds earlier in the day. I was lit, but it as mentioned the rails bite so well.

Does it go for rail to rail. Yes. The rounded tips allows you to go from rail to rail without losing speed, unlike most TTs, and this includes a complete 180 gybe.

So does it do it all? No a regular square tipped TT, with more straight edge to work with with load and boost easier. You need to employ a carve boost with this board. But put some side fins in and the ability to load gets much easier...hut it loses a little of its smoothness. also it doesn't like to the be slid out perpendicular to the concave. Sure you can do it with some technique, but a normal TT will slide out much better. This board may feel 'loose' carving wise....but those rails stick like glue when you want....and some,times when you don't want. But windtzu you are dead right as I fly edges as well and they generate a lot of apparent wind even more so in gusts, but the mako just digs and holds. One would think that makes it easier to boost, but without side fins as you leave that rail the back end can feel it is sliding out. Hence my brother on edges always rides it with a mutant configuration.

But it sh1ts over any TT I have used in the surf by a huge height. It really is the best TT I have used in the waves...but as Windtzu said it is not a SB.

Upwind? Windtzu your friend is nearly right. To go upwind easier you actually need to ride it more like a snowboard and lead with your front foot more...a little more pressure on your front foot. It also really likes higher aspect kites that generate speed.

Windtzu good on ya for trying this board. Funny enough I have had the monk, ridden the speedball but I really want to try the Dundee. Apparently it gives more feedback to the rider. I agree also that the shinn boards have that more 'alive' feel...except the monk takes great speed and edge to generate this feel in my mind, its a go hard or go home board. Rewards aggressive riding.

But for controlled Zen riding, that is perfect for Perth conditions, the mako so far for me. I just have so much fun on these boards and with such ease.

But...I am also looking to try a Jimmy Lewis model 3, like the mako and older design built for freeride. That slalom ski influence. Except with rounded rails rather than sharp mako rails. Be interesting for sure. Might suite someone like get funky who like to go from heel to opposite heel quickly across the face of a wave. Will let you know when they arrive and I have taken them through their paces.

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bennie said...
does anybody know where I can get a demo in the sydney region?

Hey bennie I have a 135 Mako that I am happy for you to try out. I am usually down Presidents / Kurnell but also keen to get to some of the other beaches so just pm me next time the wind looks like it might be on and we can sort it out.

I have not given the larger boards a go yet but I find the 135 a really fun board in smal chop, it is so easy to carve and pop tricks off little bay chop waves, it makes what can be an uncomfortable day on a regular TT is in choppy conditions an exciting day. With the large rocker, concave and narrow board, the 135 needs a bit more wind to get going on depending on your kites but when the conditions pick up it is a great fun board and unless you are really into high powered TT freestyle moves I think most people will find this board a lot of fun.

Cheers,

Ben

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eppo said...
But...I am also looking to try a Jimmy Lewis model 3, like the mako and older design built for freeride. That slalom ski influence. Except with rounded rails rather than sharp mako rails. Be interesting for sure. Might suite someone like get funky who like to go from heel to opposite heel quickly across the face of a wave. Will let you know when they arrive and I have taken them through their paces.

When they arrive Eppo? Funky is looking for a demo, as am I. But I've got a few on my list - mako, monk, dundee, JL 3, speedball - and it's the wrong time of year to demo.

So in the meantime I picked up a 136 LF Drop on the cheap. Jimmy Lewis designed this old freerider apparently, so should be similar to the Model 3.

Puppet reckons he used to ride and love the JL 3 in the chop, that is, until he got on a Shinn.

Jason from westoz is getting a few over for me from the current distributor over east.

He's gone on hols so not sure where it is at. Getting a JL Mod 3 133 and a JL Super Mod 136. Hoped for the 139 but none in the country. Jimmy Lewis also had none in stock so that will have to wait. Been speaking with Jimmy quite a bit, feel free to get in contact and have a chat, very informative guy and he makes some really good points about TT design. I will see if the reality matches the theory.

About Pupetts remark, fair enough but there is always a vested interest in taking on a product line. Not saying for one minute this is case, but the proof will be in when I ride it not what Puppett or Jimmy for that matter says.

Funny enough it was jason that remarked about the JL's when I showed him my mako and he was inspecting the Hull. Must have just stored that in the back of my mind as i was a usual off hand non committal point aka Jason. He said he'd seen something like it in the JL design and he also commented on what an amazing board they were.

I think one of the guys above got it nailed though. if your not into freestyle on a TT then the mako is a good option. I agree with this but will extend this to the JL hopefully, we will see.

Good call on getting that older drop, awesome let us know how it goes. BUT nothing like the original shaped by the man himself i would say...but again I will see.

let ya know.

In terms of TT design this was in interesting one by Jimmy a fair while back, but explains everything I have been talking to him about...





I have put together everything I can find on the net and the convos I have had with him if you'd like me to send it to you Bene...

Eppo I don't mean to digress off the Mako on this thread but what's the Shinn Speedball like?

Nah I don't mind kind of consider this a free ride board post anyhow. Windtzu there is a fair bit posted by mike birt and John B on the ukkiteboarder forum get on there and just type in Shinn 2013. I have put a bit there. I refrained from making a review here as my brother and I rode it for two three hour sessions swapping between the speedball and the 140 mako but alas in marginal to okay ish wind. Hence on that other forum I only commented on what mine birt and John has said.

Cauncy has the w18 up gero way so be interesting what he has to say.

Let us just say although it will not override any of the other shinn boards as it has its own niche it still rides like a shinn. For those that love the shinn TT feel may like it. It goes really really early and it loved the high aspect edge. Not so much the 14m cat as it seems to love speed developed by apparent wind.

Personally I don't think the ends are rounded enough and I found water hitting the tip up onto the back of my legs which got annoying. But that's just me. it is a board that would like all styles. It rides like its on rails when you want.

But again remember marginal to semi okay conditions.

In the end it still rides like a TT! Albeit a bloody nice TT.

The mako is in a class of its own has its own feel and for free riding in the ocean we still both felt it was superior (for us). by the way one session on a mako is not enough. It is so different it takes a couple to appreciate it. I had an epic session on a 150 yesterday on a 10m edge. At one stage a squal hit us and my bro screaming downwind on his 11m edge and he's 7 kg or more heavier than me. Not a prob for me just boosted higher on the 150. Exceptional board man.

Hope ur not forgetting we have the JL TT's here for demo as well Eppo.
Time for another ph. call perhaps.
Ive only got the red ones unfortunately - may be a little fast for U :-)

Hey? No I didn't know that at all? sorry phil. I thought you had dropped this line?

What sizes do you have in?

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eppo said...
Hey? No I didn't know that at all? sorry phil. I thought you had dropped this line?

What sizes do you have in?

Only one left from memory the 135?. Will pm you tomorrow.