Looking for advise to help me pick the right kite type and size

Ive been kiting on and off since 2002 (back when a deadman was a cool trick:P), cut my teeth on old c kites (12m 02 CO2, North 2, Fuel 05) and got into SLE's with an 11m 06 GK sonic but its getting old and its time to upgrade.

Ive got about $1000 to spend and always liked Norths and the 2012 range of norths are appealing to me atm but i also like the look of and feedback from locals on the ozones. Not sure which of the kites ive listed is going to suit me better and since im buying second hand, test rides arent really an option.

So im 83kg and somewhere in between beginner and intermediate. Im not a noob obvioulsy but my limited repetoir of "tricks" or "moves" probably doesn't place me as an intermediate either???

Im pretty much just a boring old hooked in freerider that likes busting big tweaked jumps when powered, throwing pretty unstylish looking back rolls when im brave but im more than happy just going back and forwards on lighter days (boring i know:/)

Im keen to expand my "trick list" this year and learn to go upwind riding toeside, nail nice strong heelside carve turns and clean up my back roll transitions. So im looking for a kite that will suit this sort of basic stuff.

I live in Brisbane and usually kite Wello or thorneside (flat water) and the majority of my kiting will be done at flat water spots. The wind here is typically lighter than most coastal areas and i usually prefer to kite in the 15-20 knots range but would like a kite that covers me for lighter days rather than stronger days so am thinking a 12m is probably the go but have heard that the 2012's norths tended to be a bit gruntier than other 12m kites???

My board is a 142 FLX atm but am looking at getting a smaller board soon as well.

Any advise or opinions will be much appreciated.

Just thought i should mention i have only ridden 2 flat kites my 06 GK sonic and an 09 rebel and i like them both but still getting used to the different riding style required after spending so many years riding old grunty C kites.

With the reputation of rebels being a good all round option that is what im leaning towards. I know the Vegas is more of a wake style /freestyle kite but there seems to be a few around atm and since i spent so many years riding c kites wondered if i might feel more at home on something like this??

C kites are great but if you're not planning on unhooking, they probably won't do much for you.

If you like boosting the rebel is great and if you want to start trying pussy loops (surface loops, mild bankroll kite loops), they loop pretty mildly.

My guess is that a 11m (rebels are grunty) would be fine but the 12m is probably going to give you more fun at the lower end and given your intention to reduce board size, the 12m may do better for future.

3 different kites. what do you want do to?

whats your riding style?

Edge is high aspect, Fast flying, big hang time and very powerful kite. Goes up wind nothing else. Unhooking ion edge works pretty good too just no line slack.

Vegas is also high aspect but a c-kite- good for unhooking, kite loops.

Thx for the reply saffer. I dont really have any plans to unhook atm. Maybe in the future but for now im gonna stick with the dingly dangly stuff:P

Thanks inthe loop. as i said in my first post im mainly looking to improve my hooked in free riding (Carve turns, back roll transitions etc. ) . Not interested in racing and dont have any concerns about keeping up wind, always managed to keep up wind easily even with dodgy old c kites like the north2 that seemed like all they wanted to do was drag you down wind;)

If you are going to go North but don't won't 5 lines, go the Fuse. Awesome hang time and a great Freeride kite. Just plug it in and go!

Thx mex. Everyone loved 5th line kites back in 2006 when i stopped kiting regularly but it seems there is a trend away from them now. My mate who has the 2009 rebel had commented that it does cause some issues when the kite inverted.

Does the 5th do anything other than completely flag the kite when ditching tge kite? If not then i doubt its something i need. I figure the safety on the worst of the new kites will be better than any of my old death wish kites:/

That's pretty much it.
They have come a long way with the safety that is for sure. Still get the shivers thinking of the old two lines. That was living on the edge!!

Yeah scary huh. First inflatable i ever flew was the original wipika. That thing was a pig!!!no depower at all. Just pure grunt!!!!

mopz, this is a tough one, out of the rebel and fuse id have the fuse, imo the fuse is a 4 line rebel with more grunt, also what year, as north rebel riders will tell you the are certain years that they liked more, 2011 compared to 2012, the fuse has been replaced by the dyna so no more fuses, these 2 kites will take more punishment than the edge, the build of the edge is superb its just stripped back on reinforcement the 2010 was fine its the latter models, the is a reason for this though its a race kite and wouldn't fly as efficient , the rebels and fuses have a bigger range of use compared to the edges, they also turn a tad quicker , the bar and bridles on the norths will require more renewals or tlc than the ozone , the edges get upwind so easy , they have a great delivery of power a couple of swipes through the window and your up to speed, very fast board speed, super stable through the gusts, jumping and hangtime amazing, but as the sizes increase the jumping ability decreases but the hangtime increases, all nice kites along with some others

Mopz 2011to 2013 are all good. If you can't get your hands on a 2013 get a 2012 as it is younger of course than the 2011. The difference over the years is the bridle position and strengthening of the canopy.
The 2011-2012 Depower line wear were a bit of a issue with the centre part of the bar being metal where the lines pass through. Replaced 2 a year on the 2011. Bow wax on the Depower line reduces the wear. Also there were issues with the bridle rubbing through the LE on the 2011, 10mt upwards. I put some patches on the LE to protect those areas.
2013 was replaced with a plastic centre which I found works really well but I have replaced the centre plastic insert on the bar. Still cheaper than a Depower line.
You will love the jumping and hang time. Also it is a pretty forgiving kite when your timing is out for jumping and getting back into old school tricks.

Forgot to mention the bottom end is a lot better on the edges and more stable when at its top end if you can handle the power

If your after an 11 or 12m buy a rebel not a fuse, they turn better. Dont buy the 2013's they are lame!

I have had rebels from 2007 and up graded each year up to 2013 For me 2013 where the best kite on S/B Also tried 2014 but still liked 2013 more which was the 1st time not to upgrade And end up with 2014 Reo's for me I changed to more wave kite but still has grunt for boost ect

Thanks for the replies guys.

OK, so wind range and durability is a must for me as i tend to hold onto kites for a while. So i guess the edge is out.

I was under the impression the rebels were better in 2012 than 2011 but i guess its all subjective as everyone likes different things. Id prefer to get as newer kite as possible and the 2012's sit inside my budget so thats what i will be aiming for.

So i guess its down to the fuze and the rebel.

I like the simplicity of a 4 line kite but i have heard some people say the 5th line helps give the rebel a broader wind range. Is this true? cauncy you say the fuze has better grunt, does this mean the rebel has a better top end? Wind range is important to me as i dont have intentions of buying a smaller or larger kite. I can still use my 11m sonic (which has great top end) when the wind gets up a bit much for the 12m but id still like to get a kite with a broad range.

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mopz said...
[br]Looking for advise to help me pick the right kite type and size

Ive been kiting on and off since 2002 (back when a deadman was a cool trick:P), cut my teeth on old c kites (12m 02 CO2, North 2, Fuel 05) and got into SLE's with an 11m 06 GK sonic but its getting old and its time to upgrade.

Ive got about $1000 to spend and always liked Norths and the 2012 range of norths are appealing to me atm but i also like the look of and feedback from locals on the ozones. Not sure which of the kites ive listed is going to suit me better and since im buying second hand, test rides arent really an option.

So im 83kg and somewhere in between beginner and intermediate. Im not a noob obvioulsy but my limited repetoir of "tricks" or "moves" probably doesn't place me as an intermediate either???

Im pretty much just a boring old hooked in freerider that likes busting big tweaked jumps when powered, throwing pretty unstylish looking back rolls when im brave but im more than happy just going back and forwards on lighter days (boring i know:/)

Im keen to expand my "trick list" this year and learn to go upwind riding toeside, nail nice strong heelside carve turns and clean up my back roll transitions. So im looking for a kite that will suit this sort of basic stuff.

I live in Brisbane and usually kite Wello or thorneside (flat water) and the majority of my kiting will be done at flat water spots. The wind here is typically lighter than most coastal areas and i usually prefer to kite in the 15-20 knots range but would like a kite that covers me for lighter days rather than stronger days so am thinking a 12m is probably the go but have heard that the 2012's norths tended to be a bit gruntier than other 12m kites???

My board is a 142 FLX atm but am looking at getting a smaller board soon as well.

Any advise or opinions will be much appreciated.

Please note that In The Loop have some free kites to give away here on seabreeze buy and sell.

A great selection for $0.00

Plenty of ozones on there.

They are really generous to be selling them for $0.00

oh and yes ive read about the norths depower line issues and using bow wax to minimise the wear. Is it just the grey line thats required ($30-$40 worth). Looks like a simple process to replace so i dont see it as a big issue.

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NoBS said..
Please note that In The Loop have some free kites to give away here on seabreeze buy and sell.

A great selection for $0.00

Plenty of ozones on there.

They are really generous to be selling them for $0.00

Yeah noticed that too....

haha

Mopz, Cauncy want talking about wind range but range of use. The edge will smoke most kites including the rebel and fuse wind range wise. He is correct on the light build observation,relatively.

The fuse is more grunty, and overall a better jumper than the rebel. It's a real muscle kite, lock load and go! But it won't give you the same top end of the rebel.

The fifth on a rebel is loaded, it's not just there as a fifth safety line alone. Helps keep canopy rigidity. You cannot fly the rebel without it, but you could chuck a fifth on a number of kites if you wanted the fifth line safety feature.

Remember the fuse is now a discontinued line.

I use a 10mt from 15 to 25. Weight is 86kg. Dropped down from a 12mt and really did not lose anything from a 12mt. If anything jumps are not as high in the bottom end compared to a 12mt but not much. Majority of the time we get 15-20.
Either way 10 or 12 you won't lose. Go to catchmesoair.com and have a look at the 2013 north fuse review it is right on the money.

I demoed the Rebel yesterday
Did my first deep water self rescue in 7 years. !

My advice
Avoid 5 line kites like the plague

( crashed it into the water doing a backroll kite loop. It rolled over itself thereby wrapping itself in the 5th line. There ain't no way of fixing this when you're 400 m offshore
The kite launched itself and could of cut itself neatly in half if I hadn't pulled the safety)

Apparently the fuse rides the same but is a 4 liner

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daggy said..

I demoed the Rebel yesterday
Did my first deep water self rescue in 7 years. !

My advice
Avoid 5 line kites like the plague

( crashed it into the water doing a backroll kite loop. It rolled over itself thereby wrapping itself in the 5th line. There ain't no way of fixing this when you're 400 m offshore
The kite launched itself and could of cut itself neatly in half if I hadn't pulled the safety)

Apparently the fuse rides the same but is a 4 liner

I've seen plenty of people have to self rescue with 4 liners and bridles wrapped around wingtips that go into death loops. Never had to self rescue my 5 line in the 2 years I've had it. Sometimes **** just goes wrong.

Thanks for the replies guys. I think im going to see if i can get a test ride on a fuse and a rebel.

I got a 2012 rebel and a 2012 fuse....the fuse blows the rebel out of the water in every way.

I wouldn't disregard the edge, for pure flying it leaves the other 2 behind

I fly a 2012 Rebel 11m. I'm 85 kg and can go upwind in 12 knots (on a SB) Its a great kite. I preferred the 2012 to the 2013.. It's got more grunt but the 2014 has all the grunt back and better drift as well. In reply to Daggy's tangle, if you crash a rebel and get the 5th tangled unhook the chicken loop (don't blow the safety) let go of the bar and let it go out to the 5th line. (presuming you are not riding suicide). Wait and most of the time it sorts itself out. When the kite looks Ok again pull in the bar hook back in and you are off. However if you are in waves let the whole lot go and collect it on the beach..

Thanks again guys. Im still leaning towards a rebel or a fuse but i think id like to try an ozone as well, Would the catalyst be a better option out of the ozone range for free riding. Im kind of hesitant in buying a kite thats designed light with less reinforcing, no one pump (ie edge) as i dont see my self as some one whos really pushing the limits and probably wont get the most out of it anyway.

Demo a 11m ozone edge, I am absolutely stoked with mine, its the latest model, the low end is just ridiculous ( ive got two other brands 12m kites but the edge just kills them for low end and top end ) the edge generates so much speed and power, its low end performance, boost and hang time is raising a few eyebrows with the locals including rebel owners, especially it's low end performance.

The edge is a bit intimidating at first but once you have it dialled it is just so much fun, even in small waves. My quiver includes 7,9,12,17 ( none ozones ) the 11 edge is my new favourite. Build quality is exceptional.

Plenty of near new edges for sale here on seabreeze, $1000 should suffice.

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mopz said..

Thanks again guys. Im still leaning towards a rebel or a fuse but i think id like to try an ozone as well, Would the catalyst be a better option out of the ozone range for free riding. Im kind of hesitant in buying a kite thats designed light with less reinforcing, no one pump (ie edge) as i dont see my self as some one whos really pushing the limits and probably wont get the most out of it anyway.

All Ozone kites have one pump, including all of the Edge models. All Ozone kites have minimal non necessary reinforcements, flying performance dictates that a kite should be as light as possible. Many brand add large foam scuff pads right along the leading edge in places where they are just not ever needed, many have battens, because the designer and the design are just not refined.
You don't hear about Ozone kites falling apart from real world users, they are built tough and intelligently designed so they don't need heavy and unnecessary reinforcements.
The Catalyst and C4's are excellent all rounders, which will both work better in waves that the Edge, but the Edge wins for wind range and big boost, hangtime and unbeatable upwind and downwind performance.

FFS, just demo the three your interested in and you'll know which one you like, easy!!!!