Hi guys

I recently sold all my kitesurfing gear (2010 SB _m and 12m, airush switch 138x39, 5' North freestyle fish) and I am looking to buy again everything from scratch.

Looking around I pretty much nailed it down to either cabrinha switchblade 2011 OR North rebel 2011. I've always been happy with cabs, but maybe it is time to try something new. That's why I d like your opinion : Have you try both ? How do they compare ?

In particular I am worried about the 5th line of the rebel. Can that generate excessive entanglement ? Is it worth it ? Are rebels better to get into kite loop sort of stuff and wave riding (I've been doing some noob wave riding and kite loops with the kite very high above)

looking forward to your answers ...

Rider: 75 kg (intermediate)
Style: Wake, Freestyle
Weather: 20-35 knots

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lebaz said...

Hi guys

I recently sold all my kitesurfing gear (2010 SB _m and 12m, airush switch 138x39, 5' North freestyle fish) and I am looking to buy again everything from scratch.

Looking around I pretty much nailed it down to either cabrinha switchblade 2011 OR North rebel 2011. I've always been happy with cabs, but maybe it is time to try something new. That's why I d like your opinion : Have you try both ? How do they compare ?

In particular I am worried about the 5th line of the rebel. Can that generate excessive entanglement ? Is it worth it ? Are rebels better to get into kite loop sort of stuff and wave riding (I've been doing some noob wave riding and kite loops with the kite very high above)

looking forward to your answers ...

Rider: 75 kg (intermediate)
Style: Wake, Freestyle
Weather: 20-35 knots

I tried both. They're different kites. Both very good, both you're unlikely to be disappointed with and you'll adapt to both of them pretty easily.

Both are all rounders but the switchblade is more set around the wake style market

Rebel seems to be faster turning, the switchblade has more of a delay on the turn because of the bridle. I don't do hardcore loops (starting to get old) so most of my loops these days are pussy loops or looping landings, thats what getting to 40 does to you.

The extra line on the rebel isn't an issue, bare in mind the 5 line only starts about a 3rd of the way from the top, up till then its 4 lines. Different reactions to pulling the QR though, the switchblade with IDS sits upside down like the old 5th line, the 5th line on the rebel actually makes it go into safe position on the beach. i.e. leading edge down with the leading edge facing you. Both bars are good.

Both jump well, but I'd put the edge on jumping to the Rebel. The switchy unhooks better.

I wish I had enough money to buy both !
Thanks for the tip. I think I will let fate decide, just seeing which second hand kite I can get...
Cheers

Go for the switchy hands down, tried both back to back and owned a '11 rebel. It's not going to be the kite for your freestyle/wakestyle. Unhooking isnt flash but yeah as mentioned definitely an edge on boosting!

If your open to something different, I recently bought an epic screamer 10 ltd that has stood up to everything I've thrown at it and it again boosts far better then the switchy/rebel, bit quicker, as good as the switchy unhooked! Wrote a review up in the appropriate section.

Yeh I've ridden both but only owned the rebel. Switch is a great kite but more set up for the wake style. Rebel would be better in waves, but the switch is still okay. Neither loops really effectively. The rebel has a more direct feel and as mentioned the turning is a little more instant. Both have a pivot arc hence both will have a minor delay, the switch a little more. Depends on how into loops you want to go. If you want to go nuts by neither, but if it's the downloop, occasional loop with a transition loop they the rebel is good.

Switchy is still not good for loops and unhooked, people use them yes but these guys could back mobe with a plastic bag. Switchy will be heavier on your arms than the rebel.
Maybe broaden you choice unless your looking for an all rounder. With an all rounder your always compromising somewhere. if our worried about rebels five lines try the fuse instead.

Yeh I'd agree with that. The rebel and switch are designed as an allrounder, but in the looping area they both will punish you severely if you aren't spot on...speaking from experience (actually only a couple of days ago is an example - ouch - had a headache for the next two hours in the water).

If you want to loop and still have the free-ride capabilites I would DEMO some others.

I'm about to demo the Vegas on monday at AKS, if you can wait until then I can comment back to you. Have been speaking to many Vegas riders and they swear by them on the free-ride setting. Never considered them as they are marketed as a new school/wakestyle, 'look at me I can do 20 handle passes to blind kite' and I can't even do one! (and too old to try). But the reality is, as far as these riders are concerned, it is a more forgiving kite than the rebel, quicker in the air for more powerd surf riding (which I need on a Mutant TT) and loops like a mother farqer. Really excited about monday actually, let's hope the cyclone up north doesn't farq it all up. This sentiment has been shared by more than a few through PM private email, hence you can develop cross references 'trends'. Been awesome how much help I've got actually and some by known kite sellers who are glad to help even though a sale for them in the eastern states is not on the cards..thanks people.

Don't be put off by the five lines (I was at first though), you don't even notice this as the fifth line is three quarters of the way up. What they do allow in the Rebel and Vegas for that matter is no pulley, direct feel, short bar throw and power on demand. Also the safety issue, killing the kite completely. The fifth line also gives you a great indication when your lines need tuning to get more out of your kite bought by hard earned cash. 4 Line kites are great too, but don't let that influence your decision, it is a minor detail that some people make into a bigger issue than it is. Again i was skeptical but had my kite drop in the surf (trying to execute damn loops - see above) and got it up no probs.

The fuse will not loop either especially well. Well it will, but like the rebel and the switch it will murder you if you get it wrong. Marketed as a rebel on 4 lines (although it does have different characteristics actually).

The switch is an awesome kite to - I thoroughly enjoyed my rides on these this kite, but pulls even harder than the rebel and is really a boost, cruise kite, oldschool style move kite - unless you are just bloody good. The rebel will beat the switch in the waves, but only had a few sessions on the switch so can't be too sure this is correct.

Maybe consider a more traditional delta - B4, North evo (has some C in it), even the kahoona V4 etc.

You have to be really sure about where you are at and where you want to go.

Also I would suggest you do a search on seabreeze once oyu have narrowed down a few, find the reviews, then PM the guys that fly them. This way you can really get into the nitty gritty detail by those that actually fly them. While they are around, you will get information off crew on this forum that well, can be a little ignorant at times - then again there is some great info as well. PM a dude, cuts out a lot of the crap. Good luck, let us know how you go.

Oh yeh, DEMO each one before you buy. And demo them for a while in the water and if you can in different conditions.

Mate most kites nowadays will do the job and until you have developed a really specific style, I wouldn't be too worried, whatever you get will work for you.

Vegas is a funny one, I found it heavy and didn't really enjoy it. Bought C4 instead, Vegas I think you either love or hate them

Yeh teh guys at aks said the same, and yet others disagree with this and say it has a lighter bar pressure than the Rebel, more forgivng, and much better in the small sizes for wave riding...hence want to check it out myself. What size did you try Nick?

I agree that I should maybe demo both before buying (I already kinda narrowed it down to these two kites but will wait for eppo's review on the 2011 vegas). The problem is that this will be hard to demo kites now that I have to drive a full 1.5 h to get to the sea ! Especially because I do prefer to buy second hand rather than brand new kites, hence I won't ask to my local retailer to use his kites for demo when I cannot really afford to buy them at his shop.

Anyhow, thanks everyone for the great feedback. In summary :

1) They are both good and easy to adapt to. Both are all-rounder, meaning it is not a dedicated weapon. BTW I am OK with that because I think some of you are WAaayy better than I am and aim for things I would not dare to try, such as kite loops with the kite lower than the rider...
2) The rebel seems better for loops, while the switch is better for unhooked stuff. It may has to do with the reactivity of the kite. The switchy beeing a bit slower and harder bar pressure means that it is easier to ride unhook.
3) In the surf, they are both good, with maybe the rebel being a touch better BECAUSE of the 5th line. Apparently the latter allows the kite to change shape when you release the bar, giving immediate depower. According to eppo, the 5th line is not a problem in the wave and should not be a deal breaker.
4) the rebel does seem to require some fine tuning. By doing a bit of reading around, the 5th line makes the tuning of the kite a bit more technical than a basic 4 liner. For example, if the 5th line is too short, you get the batman syndrom. Again, that is the price for shorter depower. Also the rebel falls in a better position when the QR is activated, as compared to the switchy.
5) The 2011 rebel is supposed to have a nice feature allowing a particular suicide rigging. Not sure what difference it makes compared to just putting your QR in the chicken loop of the switchy.
6) Inflating was easier on the SB 2010 than on the rebel 2011. Not sure if that is still the case in 2011.
7) Building quality is similar in both.

Now I am thinking of another factor. My girlfriend is thinking of giving a go to kitesurfing, hence maybe the SB would be a better choice so that she can try out on my kite. For example I could buy a big size SB (say 12m) AND a small size rebel (7 or 8m)...

Thank you guys for your help ! really appreciated !

PS
As to where I am at and where I want to go.
I jump, toeside OK, deadman OK, backroll OK, pussy kite loops 50% OK, ride strapless OK in flat
I want to unhook, railey, Sbend, go in the surf strapless, ride blind, front loop, board-off old school stuff AND jesus walk (I think this is THE coolest move EVER)

Sounds to me man that you need a kite with a bit of C in it. I honestly think you may need to move away from these two kites( bow end with some other dna bred in) from what I can see your choices should be more towards a Vegas or a C4 ozone. From where you are and want to go I can see both the sb and the rebel not the right kites.

I Agree with eppo here I rode rebel last season and Vegas this season and I think for what you want to do go c4 or Vegas beauty of Vegas is it is like two different kites when you change settings

Yes this is what I have heard and will hopefully confirm this monday. yeh the vegas would be also good for your girl as you can put the setting on free-ride, then when you want to crank up the s bends to blind etc then you can set it on new school. I have heard bloody good things about the c4 to though.

For instance I'm heading into the moves you are talking about and the rebel is punishing my ass. For my free-ride, wave riding (even then the pivot turn can be a pain in high winds), transitions, old school moves i just love it - hence keeping my 11m rebel 2012, just an damn awesome kite that I can't fault. But when you start moving ever so slightly into the new school stuff - well i'm finding it's limits here. Been riding for a lengthy amount of time so its not kite control, i can pull the moves off, but if I get them slightly 'off' - whammo.

No move away from the Bow DNA (even though the rebel does have some C bred in) and get a kite with more C - but not full on, that's a couple years down the track.

My call anyhow from what you've said. As I said if you cant demo you better start private emailing dudes as there are more kites than the Vegas/C4 out there.

Suicide ring allows you to be able to use your chicken loop when hooked in allowing the kite to flag out and when unhooked the kite won't flag out only depower with bar throw ( suicide). Saves you continually moving your leash.

If you want to handle pass land blind etc your more after a C kite. They get better slack after popping where the rebel and switchy just pull once you unhook. I used to ride fuses and could s bend, railey backroll/ loop on them but couldn't pass the bar.
Changed to C4 and kiteloops are now an option ( adrenaline rush definitely worth the risk )
Landing switch railey to blinds, hoochie glides etc. love the slack! Although I have access to some catalysts for my wave fill.

Try the Rpm aswell maybe, might tick the boxes better