We should make a vid thead yeah? Lol anyway here's another situation to watch out for
3mins in 180 deg wind change

And this is how us epic riders launch

If anyone wants a hand to learn to self lauch or a kite buddy pm me, u pick me up n we can go for a kite lol I live in redcliffe. I don't kite fortnightly weekends as I have my girl this weekend but every other day it's blowin I'm a kitin

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Loftywinds said..

Gorgo said..
If you cannot self launch and self land safely then you cannot kite at all.

Bull****

Why is that bull****? I have no problem with people choosing assisted launch and landing. I do it myself sometimes.

But how can you kite safely and effectively when you don't understand the most basic element of kite flying?

G

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Gorgo said..

Loftywinds said..

Gorgo said..
If you cannot self launch and self land safely then you cannot kite at all.

Bull****

Why is that bull****? I have no problem with people choosing assisted launch and landing. I do it myself sometimes.

But how can you kite safely and effectively when you don't understand the most basic element of kite flying?

Gorgo I would probably word it a little differently and say self landing and launching are essential skills for kiters and should be taught as part of lessons and encouraged as an essential part of anyones kiting skills...I think most of us would agree with that. I have posted previously in other threads that i think self landing and launching should be taught as a skill very early on in peoples progressions but i don't think any kite schools tech it at all.

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TryPushHarder said..

Drift launch gone wrong

?rel=0

The numbnut in this video deserved everything he got IMO.....that was not how I was taught to drift launch....if you did drift launch that way particularly with the room this guy has then fool you.

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kitebt said...

TryPushHarder said..

Drift launch gone wrong

?rel=0

The numbnut in this video deserved everything he got IMO.....that was not how I was taught to drift launch....if you did drift launch that way particularly with the room this guy has then fool you.

Maybe he did but u gotta wonder why he was trying to drift launch when he could have gotten an assisted launch, self launch from the field n walked down or lauched from a pole, tree or bollard. What made this guy go launch by himself in the water with out even knowing how to do a proper drift lauch?
We all make mistakes lol I have drift launch like this guy but I pull my flag line in before I role my lines so if it goes pear shap like what happened to him the kite is on the flag line infact it's in the flag line the whole time. I also tried a lauch this other way (I'll find the vid) but it went bad the first time n ill never ever recomend it. We all learn from our mistakes but we can also learn from other peoples too.

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kitebt said..Gorgo I would probably word it a little differently and say self landing and launching are essential skills for kiters and should be taught as part of lessons and encouraged as an essential part of anyones kiting skills...I think most of us would agree with that. I have posted previously in other threads that i think self landing and launching should be taught as a skill very early on in peoples progressions but i don't think any kite schools tech it at all.

I for one, am glad that kite schools (in Sydney at least) are NOT teaching how to self-land and self launch in their first lessons. When you have a fairly narrow strip of beach packed with members of the general public, as well as other kiters the last thing we need is noobs trying out their self launching & landing skills in among the sun bathers. We have enough accidents and near misses as it is with assisted launches and landings.

Big open beaches with sparse people around up or down the coast sure, but not here.

First time I tried this the current was going out, anyway I ended up with a big birds nest n looked like a total twat lol took me half hour to untangle n by that time a sand bank poped out n I did a self lauch lol rush rush rush n bad stuff happens

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Phoney said...

kitebt said..Gorgo I would probably word it a little differently and say self landing and launching are essential skills for kiters and should be taught as part of lessons and encouraged as an essential part of anyones kiting skills...I think most of us would agree with that. I have posted previously in other threads that i think self landing and launching should be taught as a skill very early on in peoples progressions but i don't think any kite schools tech it at all.

I for one, am glad that kite schools (in Sydney at least) are NOT teaching how to self-land and self launch in their first lessons. When you have a fairly narrow strip of beach packed with members of the general public, as well as other kiters the last thing we need is noobs trying out their self launching & landing skills in among the sun bathers. We have enough accidents and near misses as it is with controlled / assisted launches and landings.

Big open beaches with sparse people around sure, but not here.

Agreed
They would teach how tho, but ya don't need to know how to do it at first, if people were patient n waited till they were confident after a few months then went back n seen their instructor to learn it that would be better for everyone. **** goes wrong self launching n self landing n most people will **** them selves n release the kite to save their own asses with out a thought that their kite n bar n line could wrap around a bystanders neck n kill them as it's flying down the beach then that beach will most probably ban the sport.

My instructor back in 2006 when I asked him to show me how to self land and launch:

"Wait till you have 2 year kiting under your belt, then I'll show ya"


He was bang on the money. Show a newb this stuff and they will probably get smashed.

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Phoney said..

kitebt said..Gorgo I would probably word it a little differently and say self landing and launching are essential skills for kiters and should be taught as part of lessons and encouraged as an essential part of anyones kiting skills...I think most of us would agree with that. I have posted previously in other threads that i think self landing and launching should be taught as a skill very early on in peoples progressions but i don't think any kite schools tech it at all.

I for one, am glad that kite schools (in Sydney at least) are NOT teaching how to self-land and self launch in their first lessons. When you have a fairly narrow strip of beach packed with members of the general public, as well as other kiters the last thing we need is noobs trying out their self launching & landing skills in among the sun bathers. We have enough accidents and near misses as it is with assisted launches and landings.

Big open beaches with sparse people around up or down the coast sure, but not here.

Good point Phoney...however, I did not say in the early lessons I said as part of the curriculum when they teach...probably after the kiter has some common sense.

I disagree with the whole kite for ages before u launch/land yourself thing.
I've only been at this for a couple of months and I can self land and kinda self launch. (Only done it a few times but have been successful)
However I still take an assisted launch or land when I can because they are easier and a whole lot less risky. The people at my local are always happy to help which is great and I thank them for.
Kinda comes down to what's more risky. Having some random that hasn't a clue launch you, or self launch and hope you done stuff it up.

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TryPushHarder said..

We should make a vid thead yeah? Lol anyway here's another situation to watch out for

?rel=0
3mins in 180 deg wind change

And this is how us epic riders launch

What an adventure...I enjoyed watching you vid...Did you not see the squall coming? I would have thought a weather patter passing through with that verosity would have been easily spotted?

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kitebt said...

TryPushHarder said..

We should make a vid thead yeah? Lol anyway here's another situation to watch out for

?rel=0
3mins in 180 deg wind change

And this is how us epic riders launch

What an adventure...I enjoyed watching you vid...Did you not see the squall coming? I would have thought a weather patter passing through with that verosity would have been easily spotted?

That's not me dude , I fly epic kites. I just like vids yo, helps one learn from others mistakes

Wow lots in this thread.

Drift/ water launch, done it heaps but the lines are already run out. Pick kite up walk into water trailing lines. face leading edge into wind, push under water to get water on it. Where you would put sand on it if on the beach. Let it drift away. Lines tighten and launch no problem.

Self launch/ recover on the sand had to learn it as I kite alone. Got it sussed, you can see where I've asked questions on here starting my own threads.

I think like anything if you understand what can go wrong and have an exit stratergy in you head. Not just a she'll be right nothing ever goes wrong so it wont attitude. All will be well.

I was in Perth last week and watching some ggod guys at Scarbs. Saw a guy standing on the beach for some time. Ran down to him and he needed someone to catch the kite. No dramas happy to help but I think self land is something all should practice. Best place to plactice in in flat water knee deep.

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Kazan said..

And above all! Do NOT let go until you're given this ...

Absolutely spot on
In 10 years of kiting I have had only 3 injuries - all from launchers releasing my kite before getting the "thumbs up".
(well once was my fault but was still a launch incident where I didnt communicate properly to my launcher)
No wonder our school is super hot on teaching students to give a clear, above the head 'thumbs up' while looking your launcher in the eye.
And equally hot on making sure they know not to let go till they get that same clear message when they are assisting.

And it MUST be clear - 2 of my incidents were caused by the launcher thinking my wave or head nod was a GO signal.

I completely agree with what you are saying Puppet.

Let me ask you guys this though....why is it that when some kiters are assisting with a launch they pick the kite up and walk to where it they think it should be placed. Surely if the "pilot" wanted their kite moved they would communicate that before hand by saying something like "if you wouldn't mind picking up the kite and walking over to xxx I will launch from over here."

At least 1/5 launches I end up having a kiter pick the kite up and start walking around with it when it was perfectly fine where it was all they had to do was life it and hold it so I could get in position. I don't quite understand why this happens? I don't want my kite positioned on top of a sand dune I am more than happy to walk into knee deep water and launch from there. I set my kite up where I want it launched from. If the beach is crowded I may communicate before hand to the launcher perhaps it will be best if you move the kite to here and I will launch from over there.

On one occasion I had to actually follow the guy down down the beach to keep the lines slack and eventually had to yell out to him to stop and we will launch from there. I couldn't figure out where he was going.

Do you have a quick discussion with everyone launching your kite before they do regardless of weather they are kiter or not as to what you want them to do.

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Chris_M said..

My instructor back in 2006 when I asked him to show me how to self land and launch:

"Wait till you have 2 year kiting under your belt, then I'll show ya"


He was bang on the money. Show a newb this stuff and they will probably get smashed.

Remarkable. Let me get this straight. Your instructor thinks it is too hard to teach beginners how to self launch and land because they might hurt themselves?

So newb kiter gets out with a collection of gear that is only quarter understood. Ends up alone and doesn't know how to self launch and self land and tries to do it anyway. But doesn't know how to do it because nobody bothered to teach newb. Sounds like an accident waiting to happen.

Meanwhile there are kooks running loose with kites who have enough knowledge to get out and ride around in the nice soft water, but no knowledge at all what to do on the beach, which is arguably the most dangerous place to be.

Sounds a bit arse about to me. Surely you would spend more time teaching people how to be safe and self reliant at the beginning rather than tossing them in the water on a board and saying go for it. You'll be right. Somebody will come along and help you ... but they might not know what they are doing either.

Depends - how many sessions do you get in 2 years? Self-launching is about confidence and experience... which you can only gain by practice :D

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TryPushHarder said..

We should make a vid thead yeah? Lol anyway here's another situation to watch out for
3mins in 180 deg wind change

And this is how us epic riders launch

4:19 to 4:25 - two hands on the QR trying to release I hate those Epic bars...

Err no Gorgo, when you are a newb you should be kiting with others about to launch and land you, and spot you for the inevitable moment you stuff it up out at sea and need a rescue, or at least somebody to call coastguard.

A newbie who doesn't have that intuition with kite flying will be more likely to make a newbie mistake when trying to self land or self launch, that somebody with a good deal of experience will know how to handle, should things start to go a bit pear shaped.

It seems like a really crazy idea to be teaching somebody about the wind window, body dragging, how to get up on a board, AND self launching and landing in the first few experiences with a kitesurfing kite! For one, it will be an information overload. Secondly, why would a newb even be out kiting at a place with no others around to launch and land them?

I think any decent instructor should make it 100% clear that newbies should not EVER kite alone (for a multitude of reasons).



As an instructor (have a few seasons instructing under my belt) I would never recommend that a relative newcomer to the sport starts self landing and launching.

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Chris_M said..

Err no Gorgo, when you are a newb you should be kiting with others about to launch and land you, and spot you for the inevitable moment you stuff it up out at sea and need a rescue, or at least somebody to call coastguard.

A newbie who doesn't have that intuition with kite flying will be more likely to make a newbie mistake when trying to self land or self launch, that somebody with a good deal of experience will know how to handle, should things start to go a bit pear shaped.

It seems like a really crazy idea to be teaching somebody about the wind window, body dragging, how to get up on a board, AND self launching and landing in the first few experiences with a kitesurfing kite! For one, it will be an information overload. Secondly, why would a newb even be out kiting at a place with no others around to launch and land them?

I think any decent instructor should make it 100% clear that newbies should not EVER kite alone (for a multitude of reasons).



As an instructor (have a few seasons instructing under my belt) I would never recommend that a relative newcomer to the sport starts self landing and launching.

What is your suggestion then Chris? Its very easy to say something should not be done but then there is no solution you are providing. The issue being that if you want to learn to self launch and self land the only place you can do that is looking at tutorials on You Tube. That has to be a sub optimal and dangerous way to learn such a skill IMO. I don't see many kite schools offering self launch and self land lessons to kiters who have a certain level of competence to them and lets face it once you are up and kiting on your own you are going to get caught out having to self launch at some point. I for one which there was a place where i could have been taught to self launch and self land properly. While I never trashed myself my kite certainly copped a beating while I was learning to do it from you tube videos.

It gets a little tiring having "instructors" coming onto this forum and saying why something should not be done and offering no solution. It amounts to nothing more than the message of i know more than the rest of you because I am an instructor. How about providing a useful suggestion.

Edited, due to risk of offending the sensitive.....


Do what I did.... go back to the school you learned with (or any school) and book a half hour lesson to get them to show you!

My guy did it for free, even thought I offered to pay. Bought him a beer instead.


Probably better than youtube.

Jeeeezz do I have to think of everything around here?

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Chris_M said..

Edited, due to risk of offending the sensitive.....


Do what I did.... go back to the school you learned with (or any school) and book a half hour lesson to get them to show you!

My guy did it for free, even thought I offered to pay. Bought him a beer instead.


Probably better than youtube.

Jeeeezz do I have to think of everything around here?

Sorry kitebt, just re-read your reply. Did the kite school refuse to teach you how to do a self launch when you went back to them? Perhaps they didn't think you had good enough kite skills, and were too much of a liability?