G'day all!

First post here on the Seabreeze forums, pretty cool to see an active community of Aussie kiters!

I'd be stoked for a bit of advice on kite sizes and models.

I did some lessons and had a few cracks at kiting right at the end of last season, and this season I've given it hell and tried to get out just about every day there was breeze. Feel like I've made OK progress, starting to get jumping down, popping over waves and transitions are smooth and riding toeside seems to be going pretty well too.

I've been through a fair bit of gear buying and selling trying to work out what I like and have a crack on lots of different kites and I'm pretty settled on North/Duotone Neos for now, might look at Dices in the future but that's another story.

At the moment, here in Perth, I share a quiver with my partner. She's 60kg or so and I'm 75kg or so.

Quiver consists of;
2018 12m North Rebel
2018 10m North Neo
2016 8m North Neo
2016 6m North Dice

Absolutely love the two Neos, but have hardly ridden the Dice. Haven't been out much in 30+.

I'm on the 10m probably 90% of the time, and the 12m more than the 8m. Not a big deal as the 8m is my partner's go-to kite.

Originally I intended to progress to surfboards in waves as quick as possible and go for a quiver full of Neos in a season or two, but truth be told I'm having a ball with pops, airs and attempting backrolls so I'm pretty torn-but still learning surfboard and haven't tried wave riding on one so thing's might change again!

According to the Duotone website, the 12m Rebel SLS is good for 11-26 knots, and the 10m Neo SLS is good for 12-28. I realise that this isn't quite what I've got, but I've used the numbers for the SLS kites as there's no non-SLS Rebel in the product line at the moment.

My question is are these two kites too close together? Is there any point having the 12, should I sell it and find a 13m Evo or something? Would it be better to downsize the Neos to a 9 and 7, and just use the 12 more often? Would a 12m Dice or Neo make more sense to snag a better windrange?

I'm also not fussed on hanging onto it all for another season or two and then upgrading the whole lot at once, but very keen to hear some experienced opinions.

Thanks heaps for taking the time to have a read!

You appear to have quite a good spread of kites.. from 6 - 12 m. I would say ignore wind range claims from brands and seek the reality first hand. Saying a kite is 'good' in 12- 28 knts is dependant on the user's interpretation of what 'good' is. If good includes falling out of the sky to getting ripped off your edge then 12-28 knts would probably be accurate. If good means having a powered session with no lack or excess of power the wind range might read something like 17- 22knts.
Claims of kites with a 15 or 16 knt wind range are not real world if the real word includes having a satisfying session.

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snalberski said..
You appear to have quite a good spread of kites.. from 6 - 12 m. I would say ignore wind range claims from brands and seek the reality first hand. Saying a kite is 'good' in 12- 28 knts is dependant on the user's interpretation of what 'good' is. If good includes falling out of the sky to getting ripped off your edge then 12-28 knts would probably be accurate. If good means having a powered session with no lack or excess of power the wind range might read something like 17- 22knts.
Claims of kites with a 15 or 16 knt wind range are not real world if the real word includes having a satisfying session.

13m Duotone D Lab Juice, easily has over 15kn wind range. (I have no financial interest in the brand) Its a fantastic kite. It looks like your riding is heading away from "in the pocket" wave riding so there are better kites than the NEO for that stuff

The better your technique the bigger the wind range is per kite

Hi janked

your the best person to determine if 10m neo and 12m rebel are too close in size, as you own both and can test thoroughly.

a door, surfboard, or foil (and line extensions) improve low end. 5 strut kites operate best towards their higher end.

an 80kg and 60kg couple I know ride twin tips and share 9 and 12m dices, often both want to use 12 and end up taking 'turns'. They have decided to buy a 10 and 13 next time so they don't have to share as often.

In my opinion the larger sizes of neo are for heavier riders not light wind, I am 75kg and normally ride surfboards.

If you're on the 10 90% of time, keep it and keep using it (as long as you don't feel restricted / over powered etc).

maybe sell the 6 and get a 7m neo for when your 10 is too much but missus still wants to use the 8. 7m is probably a 75% of time for your weight in surf kite size for downwinders in Perth on surfboard

you'll be able to hold it down in 25 to 30 on TT and go big too. 5m for the Midwest later on


I haven't used a kite bigger than 10 in years, but I'm sure your 12 is doing the job, so keep or upgrade is heaps of options depending how you want to use it

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kitcho207 said..

snalberski said..
You appear to have quite a good spread of kites.. from 6 - 12 m. I would say ignore wind range claims from brands and seek the reality first hand. Saying a kite is 'good' in 12- 28 knts is dependant on the user's interpretation of what 'good' is. If good includes falling out of the sky to getting ripped off your edge then 12-28 knts would probably be accurate. If good means having a powered session with no lack or excess of power the wind range might read something like 17- 22knts.
Claims of kites with a 15 or 16 knt wind range are not real world if the real word includes having a satisfying session.

13m Duotone D Lab Juice, easily has over 15kn wind range. (I have no financial interest in the brand) Its a fantastic kite. It looks like your riding is heading away from "in the pocket" wave riding so there are better kites than the NEO for that stuff

The better your technique the bigger the wind range is per kite

Like I said a kites wind range, especially its
'good' wind range is different for different users. Not everyone is happy with mowing the lawn or struggling to hold ground.

Hi Janked,

Your quiver is better than most I see. The Rebel is a true twin tip kite and works best in it's mid to upper end wind range. The Neo is a great wave and freeride kite whose wind range is better suited to lower to upper middle end. Their (Neo's) top end isn't great as the kite gets shaky and flutters about misbehaving with only 3 struts, unless you have the body mass to load it. The Rebel on the other hand loves the strong wind and will handle well at the extremity of it's top end wind range. This is the big air beast, made for big wind, they tend to be a little heavy and lack the wingtip surface area for light winds, hence why they aren't ideal at their low end.

The rest of the quiver aside from getting a bit "long in the tooth", isn't bad at all. The 6m Dice would be radical fast in a good blow for you, but may be fine with your missus in moderate winds. Recommend flying this one on the smaller bar to take the "sting" out of it's tail.

At 75kg and 60kg, you are almost perfectly weighted to share the quiver you have. 10kg body weight / square meter of sail area is the general rule, so the 2 meter jump is pretty close.

Neo's are a great allrounder for twin tip and also for surfboard. On a surfboard at your weight, the 8m Neo would be your daily ride and a 6m would be a kite for the windy days. The 2016 Dice works pretty well on the waves also, not quite as good as the 2015, but still a worthy wave kite.

The power of the Neo's hasn't changed much year to year so I would suggest changing over one kite at a time, starting with your oldest (most weathered) kite. You will get a better discount buying 2 kites at a time or more, but really depends on your funds and the condition of the kites. With gear of that age, keep an eye on your bar and lines for wear and tear. Keeping up the maintenance on older gear will keep it well and truly serviceable.

I'm happy to cast an eye over your gear and advise you of condition, and what you should change, and what you can "get away with" for a while longer if you are in the area.

DM

N.B The only thing to add to this is that when sizing a quiver, working the kite sizes on equal jumps in size doesn't work (especially if it's a quiver just for you). The difference in size from a 4m to a 6m is 50% larger, from a 6m to an 8m it's 33% bigger, 8 to 10 is 25% bigger and 10 to 12m is obviously 20%.

What this means when sizing out a quiver (when not sharing with the missus), is that you need to scale sizings by percentage. Ideal sizing would look something like my foiling quiver of 18m, 13m & 10m, or my old quiver of 21m, 15m, 11m, & 9m. This prevents too much overlap in wind range. This is for others who are curious, not necessarily Janked as the shared quiver works differently