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Saferider said.. jamesperth said..hell yes - ..... in our range it is the Speed series that i would recommend.
Thanks James, for taking all the time to give me this extensive explanation. I had a look at the Boost 2 and even see a used one for sale in 12m and 18m atm...
Let me ask you about the Speed. I heard a lot of people very happy with their Speed V. And they are talking about "new generation material improvements, that made the kite even better than before..."
1.) Anyway, what your thoughts about the Speed III DLX series ? I see plenty available here used in either 15, 18/19 or 21m. You know I am about to buy used. Any recommendations what to watch out for when buy used? Will the III DLX series be "fine enough" for my needs or should I watch out for a later series (Lotus, V)
2.) Some argue a foil kite is only good as long as it is new. After some time it will start soaking water etc...Someone argued that in LW conditions wind may drop completely and even if wind picks up afterward it may be hard to relaunch a kite in the open water. Which means you might have to swim back. He argued it may be a lot easier with a pumped up LEIs. How would you argue to those comments.?
3.) Where I live there is no wide beaches/ open fields to launch/land a kite. For my LEI I use a piece of strong wood around 200feet away from the beach in knee deep water to tether launch. Now that is something that seems not be possible with the foils. Assisted Launch is not an option for me. There is simply no-one around... What would you recommend to get the foil up in the air in my situation?
As you see in my watchlist the FS Speed is in there and I know many, many riders worldwide are stoked about that material in LW. Still not sure which way to go...
Thx....!!!
Hi Saferider,
Kite age is quite important when it comes to foil kites because internal pressure is what gives the wing its shape. What happens over time is prolonged exposure to UV and other elements starts to break down the integrity of the fabric and it no longer holds air (or pressure) within the kite. If you google about porosity & paraglider (from which our foil kites are closely related) you will find they measure the time in seconds it takes for a 0.25L of air to pass thru the fabric.
I'll copy this next bit straight from paragliding.com as the principal is the same for water foil kites:
"Because the structure of paragliders is formed by pressurization, the porosity of a glider also relates to its pressurization. The behavior of a glider will change as the porosity increases. This change in behavior might be, among other things, glide ratio, speed, resistance to collapses, recovery from collapses, handling in turns, and surging. In addition to the performance being affected, the durability is affected as well. If a glider is more porous, it means the material has degraded and it is weaker than it was when you first bought it. If the material is weaker, it can tear easier. These tears might occur when you are launching or landing near rocks or sticks."
1. So the fundamental design of the speed 3 is good, it was a revolution of sorts in it's day and had quite a long product life (from 2009 - 2014). Performance is great and you'l have lots of fun and years of use with the right one - I only recently sold my S3 21 about 6 months ago - it still flew well, but i had the opportunity to upgrade to a Speed 4. But what Im getting at is that some some of these kites are going on 7+ years old and heavily aged kites are going to not perform at their best, and you'll possibly have a negative experience for the wrong reasons.
Plus consider things like line shrinkage - we know that kite lines shrink over time as they thicken with salt and dust & so on, as much as 20-30cm over a 21m span ... Foil kite bridles are no different, and are quite complex and precisely made, so over the years they will move out of "specification" and the kites will fly poorly. Some of this can be trimmed out by carefully measuring & modifying the bridle back to spec.
In terms of fabric - yes the deluxe is the better both IMHO. As you'd expect weight is super important in light wind kiting, a lighter wing is going to fly earlier and be more responsive to gusts and so on, I'd choose the lighter fabric kite anyway all other things being equal.
So my tip would be not buy the oldest kite you can find (on the basis its the cheapest) but find one with a little use as possible.
2. Swimming with foil kites sucks. In fact , if it's full of water, its almost impossible. I'll give you an example as to what can happen.... you and your buddy are out kiting in 10-12 knots, the sun is setting and the wind is dropping. Soon enough your buddy's 17+m LEI crashes (or falls out of the sky) and won't relaunch. If there is a little current in the same direction as the wind, this situation can happen easily. In the same wind, your foil kite should still fly and relaunch, so you'll still be kiting. (You have a much more efficient, higher aspect wing on the end of your lines). Being higher AR, it generates more apparent wind and you keep kiting in less wind. Invariably, you are the last one out. Eventually, you will drop your kite, and at that point most likely nothing will fly. Now If you can't relaunch your foil (which may be impossible if the wind has totally died, you are in for a swim. Remember your buddy - whilst he can't relaunch either, he has a floating kite than he can use to support himself with. If you let you kite fill with water (this won't happen quickly unless you do it purposely), you have what feels like a heavy, huge wet sleeping bag which is impossible to swim with. it won't sink, but its an anchor that you can only drift with. Your buddy with his LEI is arguably in a safer position than you at this time. The trick is to roll your foil as quick as possible in the water and make a nice, neat package that you can put on your board and swim in. Easier said than done. This situation happens to us often in winter in Perth. Many of us ride hydrofoils now, and these pared with a big foil kite (18m race kite) allow us to get out and kite in well under 10 knots. Once moving, you create enough apparent wind to kite through the lulls and we've all found ourself stuck in the middle of the river with literally no wind at all. By continually looping the kite you can keep it airborne, but getting back to shore can be next to impossible.. Swim time !
So is this a mess ? Potentially if you have no rescue options available. This situation is not he fault of the equipment however, rather an example of the implicit risks in light wind kiting. You'd never put your self in a position intentionally of kiting in offshore breeze that is likely to die out. Not on an LEI or a foil. So you could say a disadvantage of the foil kite is that it will allow you to get your self in a more compromised position, if you are not aware of your surroundings and changing environment. But I don't think you can blame the kite here, "just because you can, doesn't mean you should".
Pound for pound, i believe a foil kite will give you more days on the water for sure, but you need to be just as mindful and aware as you would on an LEI. 9 times out of 10, if you can relaunch an LEI, you'll easily relaunch your foil kite, plus you've got a greater wind range which means less need to come in a switch up/down.
3. You don't need any more space than enough to lay our your lines. Many of us lay our kites perpendicular to the wind, unwind the bar upwind and "hot launch" the kite from the 12 o clock position. I'm lazy and do this no matter how strong the wind is, because when not inflated, foil kites have very little pull so a self launch like this is very safe and common practice. For landing, you can do the opposite - stall from 12 o'clock thru the wind window and land in the hot launch position directly down wind.At this point I unhook and tie off to an object, then walk up the lines and flag out the canopy by taking one end and walking it upwind. In "fresh/strong" wind this backstage landing is dangerous - an assisted landing is best. Or you can simply pull the safety and let the whole thing flag out. This is safest in strong wind perhaps.
It sounds like at your spot you need to launch from the water ? This is also ok with foil kites. If you partially pre inflate the kite you can then lay it on it's back in the water and let it drift away from you whist you unwind your lines. You can inflate them from the water once you've unwound your lines(or you stand / swim out in the water and leave the kite on the beach).
Here is a guy demonstrating what i think you may need to do - launch from the water :
Here is a guy launching one in the middle of the water, having jumped in from a boat with a packed kite :
Flysurfer have made a bunch of videos showing all the different techniques you'll want to learn. you can find them here see here :
http://www.specialistkiteboarding.com.au/how-tos
Saferider
> 9 months ago, 30 Sep 2016
