gday fellow kiters , im wondering if anyone could advise me regarding torn supraspinatus & subscapularis tendons ? Ive been told i should have them opperated on but have heard op is not always 100% / 50% if lucky ,would appreciate feedback from anyone in the know as this is my last hurdle in recovery from serious kitsurfing accident in december . sincerly chard.

Suggest you seek out and fork out for a sports physio with a good reputation. Take all the info you have with you ie details of how injury occurred and all xrays etc. Shoulders are inherently complex due to their large range of motion. A sports physio that works in rehab and deals especially with shoulders would be ideal..

Keep in mind that if surgery is the best option, its only the start of the road to recovery.. quality rehab advice will be essential.

I suggest that any info you get from people with similar injuries needs to be scrutinised. Even if the same tendons are torn, the injury could still be quite different. In fact, even when shoulders are not injured, they vary greatly from person to person. So I reckon you need to find someone experienced who you trust. You may need to try a few. But yeah, shoulders can be very tricky so its important to get everything on your side to maximise chances of it all going well.

Good luck man. What ever happens, work real hard at being dedicated to thorough rehab before relying on it in unpredictable circumstances like kiting.

Most shoulder injuries will reoccur, once the damage has been done, its been done and it has a high likelihood of happening again. If it was something like a dislocation that caused the injury, then you would be looking at a minimum 6 weeks out, and probably closer to 12 weeks but you this depends on the level of damage done and how seriously you take your rehab.

If you really want to avoid an op, you can go for physio but then you would need to gym it to build the shoulder muscles post physio and I would avoid hectic straining (i.e. unhooking) for the first year. As someone mentioned before, rehab is critical, operation or not. You cannot skimp on any of the exercises given by the physio. An op is normally first prize, but you should honestly take your doctors advice, or at least discuss the risks with him if you want to avoid the op.

thanks for your advice greatley appreciated!! ive endured brain surgery, facial reconstruction ,fractured ribs and pelvis but it seems like the shoulders are going to be the hardest to get over , luckily im a stuborn determined old bastard! cheers

Strewth!! What happened? get run over by the clubbies tractor??

Hi Chard. My recommendations for surgery would be dependent on a number of things.
- How old are you?
- Are the tendons fully torn or only partially? If you could dictate the actual words of the ultrasound or MR scan report that would be helpful.
- Is there associated glenoid pathology (see above)
- How much pain and dysfunction is there at the moment? Is it keeping you from doing your daily activities and sport? Is it keeping you awake at night?
- Have you tried any conservative treatment (physio etc) yet?
- How long ago did it happen? (edit: december - misread post)

Cheers,

Neill

Hi Chard .I have had this problem in both shoulders it takes a good 2 years to get sorted. Physio is slow but if you can find a good physio who can combine acupunture with the treatment you can at least get some strength back in the shoulder and ease some of the pain fairly quickly. Deep tissue massage also helps but hurts like hell. I found swiming helps to build the sourrounding muscles and helps heaps also. Once i had progressed through acupunture and physio to the stage i could get my arm above my head without to much pain, I started swimming and the recovery was fairly quick after that. Good luck with it ....its a real pain in the rrss.

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seafever17 said...

Strewth!! What happened? get run over by the clubbies tractor??

I've got 2 months left out of the water from my surgery -

Really all you can do is find a good physio and ask them what they think, best bet is to find a physio that deals with shoulders a lot so one that does footy teams and volleyball players or any other sport that involes a lot of shoulder use. If you're not confidant in the answer your given get a second opinion. Other than that you're physio might refer you to get an MRI and depending on what it says get you to talk to a surgeon one again you can always get a second opinion on that too.

Just listen to what the quacks have to say hit up google do some research and base your decision on the information your given.

If you'd like the name of a orthapedic surgeon I'd be more than happy to give the name of the guy that did my shoulder. Good guy talks straight and doesn't sugar coat it.

the whole story- arived at beach to meet 25 knt gusty SE we had tracked on coastwatch launched my mate then self launched my self the last thing i remember is holding control bar thinking i hope ive got this right (only been kiteing 1 year )apparantly memory loss is common with brain injury but witnesses say i was boosted 15 mtrs then came down in sand dunes (low scub small trees) where i can only guess i was KOed before i could release my kite. I was then dragged through a wire fence and head first into a no standing sign (i couldnt stand after that) my kite then broke free, flew over a block of units and landed undamaged in the back yard . i was treated at the seen by lifesavers ,an of duty fireman and amboes then they flew me to royal north shore(words fail my appreaciation of these wonderful people that work in the rescue and casualty departments!!) my injurys included-a subdural haematoma (brain bleed) multiple facial fractures,fractured ribs &pelvis and torn shoulder tendons. doctors say im making a miraculas recovery which they attribute to my health ,which i attribute to surfing windsurfing & kitesurfing. Lessons to be learnt from this unfortunate event No 1 allways wear your saftey leash No 2 learn the safest way to self launch ,unhooked No 3 dont be in a mad rush , so what if your late for your mates barby they dont understand how addictive kitesurfing is!!!

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chard said...

the whole story- arived at beach to meet 25 knt gusty SE we had tracked on coastwatch launched my mate then self launched my self the last thing i remember is holding control bar thinking i hope ive got this right (only been kiteing 1 year )apparantly memory loss is common with brain injury but witnesses say i was boosted 15 mtrs then came down in sand dunes (low scub small trees) where i can only guess i was KOed before i could release my kite. I was then dragged through a wire fence and head first into a no standing sign (i couldnt stand after that) my kite then broke free, flew over a block of units and landed undamaged in the back yard . i was treated at the seen by lifesavers ,an of duty fireman and amboes then they flew me to royal north shore(words fail my appreaciation of these wonderful people that work in the rescue and casualty departments!!) my injurys included-a subdural haematoma (brain bleed) multiple facial fractures,fractured ribs &pelvis and torn shoulder tendons. doctors say im making a miraculas recovery which they attribute to my health ,which i attribute to surfing windsurfing & kitesurfing. Lessons to be learnt from this unfortunate event No 1 allways wear your saftey leash No 2 learn the safest way to self launch ,unhooked No 3 dont be in a mad rush , so what if your late for your mates barby they dont understand how addictive kitesurfing is!!!

I'm not sure if you know but there has been a lot of discussion about your accident over the past few months. No one really knew what happened and many people were very concerned. Thanks for enlightening us. I work at RNSH and spoke to your mum when you were going into surgery. I hope she passed on the wishes of the kiting community for your speedy recovery.

Regards
Graeme Snowdon
NSWKBA

re Neil - age mentaly 28 actualy 48 left shoulder ultrasound- there is evidence of a full thickness tear involving supraspinatus tendonmeasuring 2.4 x 2.3, some retraction of the tendon is noted , there is also evidence of an intralaminer tear of the articular surface measuring 11mm with the subscapularis tendon associated with evidence of enthesopathy .an effusion is associated with the sheath of the biceps tendon which may be secondary to adhesive capsulitis . thereis evidence of intrabursal fluid in the subdeltoid bursa 'there is evidence of diminished movment with permanent blocking at approximately 35 degrees with abductive. comment; rotor cuff disruption.subdeltoid bursitis' - right shoulder a full thickness tear measuring 2.4 x 1.7 involves the supraspinatus tendon there is associated retraction . the remainder is unremarkable . prominence of the subdeltoid bursa is noted and there is evidence of bursal bunching at 40 degrees comment supraspinatus disruption.subdeltoid bursitis

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cRAZY Canuk said...

I've got 2 months left out of the water from my surgery -

Really all you can do is find a good physio and ask them what they think, best bet is to find a physio that deals with shoulders a lot so one that does footy teams and volleyball players or any other sport that involes a lot of shoulder use. If you're not confidant in the answer your given get a second opinion. Other than that you're physio might refer you to get an MRI and depending on what it says get you to talk to a surgeon one again you can always get a second opinion on that too.

Just listen to what the quacks have to say hit up google do some research and base your decision on the information your given.

If you'd like the name of a orthapedic surgeon I'd be more than happy to give the name of the guy that did my shoulder. Good guy talks straight and doesn't sugar coat it.

yeh thanks if you could give me his name that would be great !!

Dr David Duckworth - drdavidduckworth.com.au/

Websites the easiest way has all the contact and other info

There's a couple youtube video's of shoulder surgeries if your interested in what they do.

Also injuryupdate.com.au has a bunch of threads on shoulders (and varios other injuries) if your looking for inforamtion - there's also a list there of all the shoulder surgeons in sydney and Aus that people have rated.

Not a good set of ultrasounds there mate.

Both shoulders have ruptured supraspinatus tendons, which at your age and fitness level I would be getting surgically fixed - UNLESS THERE IS LITTLE DISRUPTION TO FUNCTION. The left one sounds pretty bad, with evidence of frozen shoulder, so they will probably do a capsule release at the same time as the tendon fix. That one definately sounds like it needs surgery unfortunately. It also shows evidence of glenoid disruption (cartilage damage to the surface of the shoulder joint) which will almost certainly need cleaning up.

The right one, if it's not sore, and you have full range, you could probably get away with leaving it. But I'm guessing it is sore, and you don't have full range, so I would have it done if it was my shoulder.

The best bet is probably to have the left one done, then a few months later have the right done.

The main problem is that the supraspinatus muscle is responsible, in large part, for elevation of the arm and humeral head control at over 30 degrees of abduction. So if the thing is blown, you will have trouble controlling your arm, and there is almost always pain from impingement under the acromion due to the loss of humeral control.

Supraspinatus rupture is extremely common. When people ask me about surgery, it all comes down to a few simple things. Is it painful? Can you not move it fully? Is it impacting your daily life?

If the answer is YES to these, and you're a young, fit bloke, the surgery is probably a good idea. If you're a sedentary old lady in a nursing home, surgery isn't your best bet.

Good luck with it all mate.

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chard said...

the whole story- arived at beach to meet 25 knt gusty SE we had tracked on coastwatch launched my mate then self launched my self the last thing i remember is holding control bar thinking i hope ive got this right (only been kiteing 1 year )apparantly memory loss is common with brain injury but witnesses say i was boosted 15 mtrs then came down in sand dunes (low scub small trees) where i can only guess i was KOed before i could release my kite. I was then dragged through a wire fence and head first into a no standing sign (i couldnt stand after that) my kite then broke free, flew over a block of units and landed undamaged in the back yard . i was treated at the seen by lifesavers ,an of duty fireman and amboes then they flew me to royal north shore(words fail my appreaciation of these wonderful people that work in the rescue and casualty departments!!) my injurys included-a subdural haematoma (brain bleed) multiple facial fractures,fractured ribs &pelvis and torn shoulder tendons. doctors say im making a miraculas recovery which they attribute to my health ,which i attribute to surfing windsurfing & kitesurfing. Lessons to be learnt from this unfortunate event No 1
allways wear your saftey leash No 2 learn the safest way to self launch ,unhooked No 3 dont be in a mad rush , so what if your late for your mates barby they dont understand how addictive kitesurfing is!!!

Holly **** Dude...... Best of luck.

Wow full on chard. I wish you a speedy recovery.

Nielll - great advice. The ultrasound does sound bad.

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chard said...

the whole story- arived at beach to meet 25 knt gusty SE we had tracked on coastwatch launched my mate then self launched my self the last thing i remember is holding control bar thinking i hope ive got this right (only been kiteing 1 year )apparantly memory loss is common with brain injury but witnesses say i was boosted 15 mtrs then came down in sand dunes (low scub small trees) where i can only guess i was KOed before i could release my kite. I was then dragged through a wire fence and head first into a no standing sign (i couldnt stand after that) my kite then broke free, flew over a block of units and landed undamaged in the back yard . i was treated at the seen by lifesavers ,an of duty fireman and amboes then they flew me to royal north shore(words fail my appreaciation of these wonderful people that work in the rescue and casualty departments!!) my injurys included-a subdural haematoma (brain bleed) multiple facial fractures,fractured ribs &pelvis and torn shoulder tendons. doctors say im making a miraculas recovery which they attribute to my health ,which i attribute to surfing windsurfing & kitesurfing. Lessons to be learnt from this unfortunate event No 1 allways wear your saftey leash No 2 learn the safest way to self launch ,unhooked No 3 dont be in a mad rush , so what if your late for your mates barby they dont understand how addictive kitesurfing is!!!

thats heavy mate....
wish you all the best