Hi there.
Please, anyone has an experience with short lines ( 15-17m)?
What does it actually do to the kite?
Affecting power,speed,responsivenes??
Thanks.

Thanks Clay.
Just trying to save few $ by not buying new set of lines
Do you think it will work with 6 m kite (waves)?
Thanks.

Hey Sasha

Im guessing that your lines are worn above the bar at the twisty point

Option A.
keep lines as long as possible 17 will do nicely since you are used to a fast turning 6m anyway... As long as you use it in the right wind range it will be lots of fun & have things in common with a crazed mosquito snorting red bull

Option B.
I sent you a pm with a link to the best bargain new line 'sets' under $90 anywhere in the world I sure - keep it to yourself or we'll have to pay top dollar again

Short lines will have no appreciable affect on the turning speed of the kite or on the speed at which the kite flies through the window. The window will however be much smaller depending on the length of the lines and the kite will have a propensity to fly further forwards in the window. It can be difficult to get going with much shorter lines (ie sub 15m), as sining the kite produces less power than with longer lines. However once you get some board speed going it is not a whole lot different than with longer lines except you tend to point a bit further upwind. Kite loops tend to be a lot more radical/brutal on short lines as well. Quite a few people will ride 20m lines in the surf these days and personally I reckon that 15 or 17s aren't bad either if you like the small window for being able to flick the kite around without getting dragged down the line too far. I can't see too many advantage for freestyle. Some say that shorter lines enable you to fly a larger kite than you would otherwise in higher wind and I would also find this debatable. Kites can be quite squirrely in high winds on shorter lines and a looping kite on short lines can produce real painful surprises in strong wind.

simonmm said...

Short lines will have no appreciable affect on the turning speed of the kite or on the speed at which the kite flies through the window. The window will however be much smaller depending on the length of the lines and the kite will have a propensity to fly further forwards in the window. It can be difficult to get going with much shorter lines (ie sub 15m), as sining the kite produces less power than with longer lines. However once you get some board speed going it is not a whole lot different than with longer lines except you tend to point a bit further upwind. Kite loops tend to be a lot more radical/brutal on short lines as well. Quite a few people will ride 20m lines in the surf these days and personally I reckon that 15 or 17s aren't bad either if you like the small window for being able to flick the kite around without getting dragged down the line too far. I can't see too many advantage for freestyle. Some say that shorter lines enable you to fly a larger kite than you would otherwise in higher wind and I would also find this debatable. Kites can be quite squirrely in high winds on shorter lines and a looping kite on short lines can produce real painful surprises in strong wind.

It will turn quicker because less line = less drag = less slack to pull in = faster response = quicker turning kite.

It will fly through the window quicker because 4 or 5 times 7m lengths of line is actually alot of extra drag and will be noticable.
Why do you think it fly's further forward in the window on shorter lines...
Also why do you think it goes up wind better...
Because it has less drag to fly faster through the window/ further forward into the wind.

You will be able to fly a kite size or 2 bigger because once again it can fly further forward in the window effectivley catching less of the wind than what it would if it was on longer lines sitting deeper in the window. It can be very on off kinda kiting if the wind is gusty though.

By the sounds of things I'm not sure whether you have actually tried short lines before or maybe you did it one time and forgot what it was like.

I don't like doing it, but I have to agree with Rowdy on the turning speed.

My Flexi's have 20m + 5m extensions, and there is NO DOUBT that my 12.5 ION2 turns much faster on the 20m lines than it does on the 25s.

NO DOUBT.

sir ROWDY said...


They actually vibrate in flight giving a bigger surface area than the actual diameter of a line thus giving more drag.

You should be Sir Idiot not sir Rowdy. Unless your flying lines have some type of multidimensional capabilities that enable them to avoid some of the basic laws of physics, they can only actually be in the one place at the one time. They can vibrate as fast as you like but they will still always have the same cross section. Not sure if you made it to year 10 or 12 maths, but it all becomes a lot clearer then.

I think both simon and rowdy are right on this one.
Only the aerodynamics of the kite will control how fast the kite actually rotates. But shorter lines will make the user input more effective, just like a bigger bar does. The turn will be initiated more quickly with shorter lines, but the rotational speed will be the same.

There will probably be two types of drag on the lines: 1) frictional which is directly related to surface area and 2) pressure drag which will be dominated by eddies coming off the lines. Rowdy might be right in that a vibrating string causes more eddies to be shed (creating more drag), but this is getting into a pretty complex aerodynamics.
This will get pretty nerdy fast

I also ride flexifoils ,ion 2s and find 20 metre lines
the way to go.

Fly a trainer on really thick line (like old Q line) then fly it on the super thin lines it comes with and tell me it makes no difference.
I can deffinetly feel the difference between thicker stretchier lines when compared to newer thin pre stretched stuff. I kinda prefer the thicker stretchier because it slows your kite down a bit.

umm im just going to come add my opinion that i have n stuff..

im going to say that lines dont make the the kite itself have faster turning BUT the amount of input required on shorter lines compared to the amount of imput required on longer lines to a) take up the slack in lines and b) pull in on wingtip to cause kite to turn is signifcantly less. THEREFORE when lets say you have 24m lines and 17m lines, both the same kites, both pilots having the kites sheeted exactly the same and both pulling an equal amount on one side of the bar to initiate a turn, the 17m lines will start turning earlier (as pressure starts being applied the 17 will start turning first due to less slack needing to be taken up) and turn in a sharper angle (more pressure on kite wing due to less slack).

then the drag coefficient of the lines also make a large difference, eg go grab a fuel or generator, fly it in 4 lines (especially generator) then fly it on 5 lines and notice how much slower the kite flies through the window. same applies to line lengths and pig tail attachment points, move the front lines further back on wing tip kite sits deeper and shoots forward less.

THEN on top of this there is a strong positive correlation between wind speed and amount of drag, as wind speed increases the amount of drag caused by lines increases.

ON TOP OF THAT im just taking a poke in the dark here im not sure if anything i said is credible im just using what ive learnt in physics and some general knowledge and taking a guess.

Simonmm im not to sure why u like getting so excited and what not and having to get so personal about a topic that is as simple as line lengths, one person disagrees with your tiny little forum opinion and you start throwing names like idiot around n trying to cut them down....

Self esteem issues no?

just incase you haven't reaslised this is an internet forum, its a open public discussion page, its not personal, dont get too excited and think someone hates you because they disagree with you...

As someone else said all this theory is great, but why not just cut 'em down (to keep them as long as possible) and see how you go?

How long is a piece of string?

Never tried shortening lines but have had standard set ups in 23 mtrs and 25 mtrs. My current rig has the optional 20+5 add-ons. I'd be keen to try the 20m set up in the surf this year but like someone said I find my 9m moves fast enough for me anyhow?

I'd rather just get out there than fiddle, compare, fiddle - think of all the sets you have missed in that time?