Ive Noticed that on some of the more recent on line videos that some crew kiting in waves (mostly that Alldredge bloke ) are using a harness with sliding spreader bar with rope ( i think its dyneema or something similar) with a carabiner clip attaching them to their chicken loop rather than the traditional set up . looks like it gives a lot more freedom for manoeuvers. sorry this is probably a **** description

any one using this set up , is it better in waves and as safe as a standard harness chicken loop static spreader bar set up.

Yes it is. Especially for seat harnesses. Infact it is almost a must with seat harnesses, almost impossible to really ride toeside well without it. A waist harness will slide around, add the slider system and you would be very free. Or learn to unhook?

yeah I use this setup, a piece of rope and snap shackle (non swivelling type) from the boat shop. I previously used a carabiner but found it occassionally opened and snagged on loose line and straps. The snap shackle slides easily over good quality thick rope, again from the boat shop.

Definately better in waves imo. Been using this for 3 years now, haven't had and can't see any safety problems, other than the previously mentioned carabina snagging. Also I'll admit to being one to push things a bit, trash gear taking risks etc. Also if it's done properly the snap shackle provides a second release if the primary is jammed up with sand or somehow stuck.

There's a commercial variant availble from Jaybar, Kitepower sell them.

Give it a go - I can't believe more people don't use them. The standard spreader bar is something we inherited from windsurfing. It wasn't designed for kiting in waves.

www.kitepower.com.au/collections/kitesurfing

I was somewhat skeptic, but after moving to a different area I had to start riding at a different spot where unhooking is impossible (you just get pulled off the wave).
I like them for my onshore conditions...

Only downside is the wear on the little black sleeve thing, I swear I am almost replacing them every few sessions...

i machined up a stainless pulley and using the V7 freeride bar. will have to see what wears next!!!
will give the dyneema rope a go next as the freeride bar is a bit clunky.
kitch

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surfingboye said...

www.kitepower.com.au/collections/kitesurfing

I was somewhat skeptic, but after moving to a different area I had to start riding at a different spot where unhooking is impossible (you just get pulled off the wave).
I like them for my onshore conditions...

Only downside is the wear on the little black sleeve thing, I swear I am almost replacing them every few sessions...

Yeh the rope is the go. Real free.

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Hunter S said...

yeah I use this setup, a piece of rope and snap shackle (non swivelling type) from the boat shop. I previously used a carabiner but found it occassionally opened and snagged on loose line and straps. The snap shackle slides easily over good quality thick rope, again from the boat shop.

could you post a pic or two? would be great. am interested, too. had emailed bws about it. they didnt send a pic but said there might come something like that from them. the dynabar is a bit more than i want. like it simple.

I normally wear a waist harness but the sliding.of the harness chews up my waist and being a weekend warrior my back takes strain too. I recently bought a pair dakine nitrous shorts for two.reasons: to mix it up between a waist and.seat harness to save the lower back and to stop the crashing. I just hope I yet use to the lower pull as I prefer the pull from my stomach area.

I have made a rope and sliding hook out of two stainless steel carabiners so I can hook in the donkey dick as per normal spreader bars. Haven't had a chance to test the rig yet but I understand that a more of an equallateral triangle is better than a short piece of rope ( if you know what I mean) as it allows for a smoother slide.

If you do a search for Andrash and sliding harness on SB, he was one of the first to do his own rig.

Now all I need is some wind.on.the weekend .

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Kanaelili said...

**** that looks dodgy!!

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Kanaelili said...

Yeah mate unsafe. That shackle won't handle the load and the spring closure on it will go looking for lines to snag - get rid of it and try one of these (below). I've used both the $12 made in China version (worked fine) and the $90 load tested Ronstan version. Just make sure your chicken loop will readily pass through the hole space in the shackle.





Also your knots suck. Use a figure eight knot.

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richswing said...

I have made a rope and sliding hook out of two stainless steel carabiners so I can hook in the donkey dick as per normal spreader bars. Haven't had a chance to test the rig yet but I understand that a more of an equallateral triangle is better than a short piece of rope ( if you know what I mean) as it allows for a smoother slide.

If you do a search for Andrash and sliding harness on SB, he was one of the first to do his own rig.

Now all I need is some wind.on.the weekend .

Rich, I've seen quite a few variants and yours is the simplest and most elegant - mine's not that pretty. One thing though, I think you'll find that the rope slides easiest if it is as short as possible. Also the long rope puts the bar further away and reduces your reach and hence depower. This is accentuated because the chicken loop moves with a sliding setup.

^^^ quick work mate. It works best with the rope above the spreader bar - but I'm not sure which way is up. You don't really need the swivels, or the spreader bar hook imo and the fatter the rope the better.

Hey Hunter,

I made one with the rope as tight as possible (when splicing it) and it felt very jittery. With my current setup I have two ropes the one as above and one about 2/3 the length. Failing that I will tie knots in near the connection point to shorten the rope.

Totally agree with not being able to get full reach on the depower but I usually ride with my bar as close to the chicken loop as possible.

Hopefully a session will happen soon.

In the early days of kiting we used the various Wichard and Ronstan shackles as quick releases and as permanently hooked in systems.

marine.wichard.com/menu-Snap_hooks-0202040000000000-ME.html

They were all unsuitable for kiting. They all either release too easily or do not release at all, usually both.

The only quick releases that turned out to be reliable were the pin and sliding tube releases which are the precursors for most of the modern kite quick release systems.

The shackle should never be a replacement for the commercially tested quick release that comes with the bar.

In three years of wave kiting I've only had the shackle release when I've pulled it. It should never be a replacement for the commercially tested QR on the bar, which is what I use if I want to ditch the kite. You must test that the end of the chicken look will easily pass through the shackle - some older chicken loops have large rings on the end.

As I mentioned I've only had safety problems when using a carbiner because it caught lines.

Here's what I've been using. Not pretty but it's worked well. Two pieces of PVC pipe, one inside the other, some good quality rope and a shackle.

I can remember a discussion on Aaron Hadlow's way of leashing (maybe for 900's?) and he was using a shackle like that ronstan one, but I think the one he used was designed to be used as part of a horse bridle.

Maybe something like this? although these seem to be too big.

www.ponyandcarriage.co.uk/carriage-driving-saftey-items-shackles-clips-helmets-shop.htm

Going the Dyneema setup on the Dynabar V7 was the best thing I ever did, highly recommend it - I use it on my waist harness and after a few waves/tacks it feels remarkably natural.

so happy that i stumpled over this thread! had my first session with a combo similar to the one in the picture today. in the first moment very strange but after a short while very nice. and in the moment you start riding a wave toeside you really know why you did it. fantanstic! maybe i´ll think about buying a professional solution when something simpler than the dynabar hits the market but for now i am a very happy man

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Kanaelili said...

interesting. i'm going to try this. i have a spare spreader bar at home.

i have one performance enhancing idea for the rope. use a pvc sleave over top to reduce the wear and chance of failure.

Has anyone left their hook on and still used the dyneema setup - would be good to try it out first before cutting the hook off.

The only thing you miss really, is the ability to unhook with freedom if using the hook of course. The hook drops obviously, you can get it back in, but it is dangerous in higher winds, mucking around. might want to consider this if you plan to unhook surf.

I left the hook on, works fine. Did it to try out the setup prior to cutting the hook off. The shackle just runs above the hook position, doesn't foul. Probably not the best option for long term use but fine to have a go prior to modifying a spreader bar.

is there some reason beside faster wear that you can not just hook you chicken loop around the rope itself? and not bother with the shackle...

Have a Dynabar, made some adjustments that I reckon has improved it.

Changes required:

* 2 x stainless steel eye bolts and nuts
* Ronstan 16mm dia pulley (comes with swivel that isn't required but doesn't effect performance)
* Spectra line to suit pulley

Result is a harness with very smooth movement.

I just rigged one up and gave it a run but I am not convinced.
First up you lose a bit of reach for depower although thats not a big thing.
But the worst was when opening up your body on a bottom turn (riding backhand)
and the loop jumps to the other side twisting you into the wave. It also kept doing that when getting over the whitewash unstrapped.
I think I will stick with a loose harness

Hey TH,

As far as I can recall that is what I found aswell (erratic sliding and control) and it is the reason why I went for a longer rope - possibly to long but we will hoepfully find out. I think the bigger the triangle of the rope the less it will want to slide uncontrollably, the downside is that the reach will be a problem but I have monkey arms anyway.

Come on summer!

Rich

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TurtleHunter said...

I just rigged one up and gave it a run but I am not convinced.
First up you lose a bit of reach for depower although thats not a big thing.
But the worst was when opening up your body on a bottom turn (riding backhand)
and the loop jumps to the other side twisting you into the wave. It also kept doing that when getting over the whitewash unstrapped.
I think I will stick with a loose harness

But a loose harness is basically doing the same thing, aligning the pull of the kite better with your body?
The rope of a dynabar prowave or a home rigged system like some of the above takes a bit of getting used to, especially if you have always used a fixed hook harness and never unhook. Give it a few sessions, then see what you think, I know that very onshore conditions are much harder to test this system, side shore is much easier to get used to the feel of a moving tow point.

Cut mine off two sessions ago, pure gold! Also found it better straight onshore than the hook as it gets a better angle over the waves.

It all looks like its getting too scientific.
Keep it simple.

I have been using the set up of a locking carabina on a sliding piece of rope on the Dyna bar on a mystic warrior harness.

And it works very well.

The rope is as tight as I can get it, which keeps the bar still in reach, just.
Some of what I have seen in the photos are far too slack for my likings.

I wouldn't like to have my safety on the same system, as if the Rope breaks you have lost the lot.
I fly North gear so the qr is all in the chicken loop so my leash and 5th line is attached to the body of the harness.

It's good it works and I don't know what all the discussion is about.
If it looks like it works, do it, and modify it as you go.