Currently building a foam core, surf shape board at the moment and need to work out fin system and placement before i laminate wood strip top and bottoms on.
Being the cheap skate i am i have some plastic surf ski skegs i was planning to use, the blue one is 13 cm and white are 9 cm, i have just enough thickness in the board to use the base i have for the blue fin and was planning to get some fcs inserts and shape the white fins to fit.
Finished size of board will be 43cm wide 175cm long, i weigh 93 kgs and board will be used mainly in rough chop/swell conditions.
Any sugestions on fin setup would be appreciated.

Hi Pirrad,

I know you are on a budget and all, however, I would considering inserting either Futures or FCS bases into the board.

Fins make such a huge difference to the way a board feels and performs, that a dodgy cheap set of fins could really muck up a decent surf shape. The ability to change fins either larger or smaller or different flex and stiffness and shape is key.

By using the rear US style fin box, you are significantly reducing your ability to use small surfboard specific fins, especially in a board only 175cm long.

My advice is to spend a few dollars more and get the inserts to put decent fins in. You can still run cheap and nasty fins, but then also have the option to run better fins if you so desire.

Just my 2 bobs worth. ;-)

DM

^^^^ try or quad, what size as a starting point, placement ??

Mate that board looks good don't spoil it with those crap fins. Even some cheap FCS plugs and fins would be way better.

Google "McKee Quad fin setup" for info on fin placement and quad vs thruster choice

or go to

http://www.mckeesurf.com/brucemckee/multisystem.htm

looks complicated with all the colour and info overload but isn't really.

For more forum discussion of fin placement and quad vs thruster, google Swaylocks

Some kite boards (but not all) have slightly less toe in on the outside fins than surfboards. This is a pretty subtle difference and the surfboard fine placement works fine imho

So i've decided to go fcs or futures,what are the pros and cons of fitting each ?
Bottom of board will have a 4mm wood strip laminate, to be fibreglassed.

FCS are generally a crap fitting fin, Futures are a million times better in my opinion.

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pirrad said...

So i've decided to go fcs or futures,what are the pros and cons of fitting each ?
Bottom of board will have a 4mm wood strip laminate, to be fibreglassed.

Can of worms. There are pros and cons.

Personally I hate Futures largely because the engineering of the boxes is so appallingly bad - they look strong but are weak as piss (basic engineering problems). Most don't realize what's inside the board - it's mostly foam holding futures fin boxes in place.

Futures fins are more expensive than FCS and the choice of fins is not as good as FCS.

But you asked about fitting. I would rather fit FCS cause I prefer to use a hole saw rather than a router on my board - less chance of a stuff up - and I don't mind farting around to get the angle right - but I've never fitted a set of futures only repaired the crappy boxes.

If FCS boxes are fitted properly they are strong.

Hi Pirrad,

Thruster or Quad is a personal choice as each setup creates a different type of performance.

As a general rule, a quad setup gives more drive and places the average centre of pivot further forward on the board which makes is hold better and turn tighter in small mushy waves where board speeds tend to be lower.

A thruster will put the pivot point a little further aft making the board turn wider arcs. Thruster is a lot less drag so tends to be faster and more well suited to bigger waves.

Personally I prefer a thruster as I like a driving turn and better control at speed. Some quads feel a little weird when transitioning from rail to rail which I dont feel on a thruster.

FCS or Futures? Yep, can-o-worms right there. I like Futures myself because the fins don't snap off too easily like FCS, but the other side of the coin is a Futures box will make a bigger mess coming out if you strike reef due to the fin not breaking off easily.

FCS range is a bit overwhelming. I like Futures range better, but hey, that's just me. I think the new "Fusion" FCS inserts will allow the fins to be moved up to 1/2?" for or aft so placement may not be so critical as you can adjust them.

www.theshapingshack.com/pages/How-to-Install-FCS-Fusion-Surfboard-Fin-Boxes.html

Board looks good mate.

DM

M8, stellar job on that board. Love the hard, wooden rails. Such a bad-a*s job. As SUPs said, It would be a crime to install those crappy finboxes there. Such a nice board with that much work deserves better. Single foil fins rule for side fins - much more hold, drive and control - something you won't get have available using those old boxes. FCS and Futures are both fantastic if done right. However, If you've never done them and if you're only doing them sporadically Futures installation is a pain in the neck. Plus IMHO FCS are stronger if you do them right. You can easily glass through to the deck, Futures are done before laminating and are a b****h to get connected to the deck plus you gotta get a hold of A LOT of set up gear. FCS you can do with some hole saw bits. Vital Tip - Use some chop strand in your qcell mix, + glass carbon stripes &/or lots extra glass+ stomp pad over the top on the deck. ie _ your backfoot/fin plug zone and your FCS plugs will never split or roll over. Since using this recipe, i've landed on glass/carbon lam fins (read, really tough, stiff a*s, non flexible, super drivey glass fins) during solid 4ft session and the fins broke and the plugs stayed good as new. Same situation previous to the chop fiber strand, the hard a*s fins were fine as they lever over & roll out and or split the plugs (deck connected or not) costing you repair and/or fins. If not you can get the fin back but I'd rather crack a fin than have to replace a plug any day, boards never look the same after... Don't rely on the FCS premix powder - plain ol' garbage IMHO. Make your own mix, do it right, FCS will rock your world.

I found Mckees great for front an thruster fins but there rear quad placement stiffens the boards up way too much IMHO. Having said that if you look at kelly's placements, they seem to be very similar to the Mckees formulas but what can you say? Him an' Al Merrick have so many tricks up the sleeve, you could do worse than to copy one of their setups.. Still, lots of great Aussie shapers have their own formulas that I reckon work amazing for Aussie waves.

Personally, I'll never have futures again, I prefer to have the FCS boxes and either set the fins so that they just pull out and I loose the fin if I hit something straight on or alternatively have to re-install boxes but as said previously your milage will vary.

The center fin box you have is usuable, FCS make an insert for longboard fin boxes which will allow you to use the fcs style fins and the small adjustment you have there can also greatly change the way the board feels (have a look at http://www.surffcs.com/au/products/hardware-and-accessories/accessories/longboardboxadapter.aspx). I have a board that uses RED X fin boxes which have about 3/4" of adjustment and even that small movement is incredibly noticable.

FCS is much better imo. But keep the large rear fin, thats a great idea

My 2 cents,

Use Shaper Fins, They are made in the same factory as all the big names. They have the same foil shapes. Use Google to serch them. They come from a shop/ Board maker in Queensland.

Best of all they are way cheaper. I use a set of SK-5 shapers. These are exactly the same as the Kelly Slater FCS fins.

Kelly's $150 Shapers $80.00

They also make the same fins in either FCS OR Futures.

FCS fusion plugs (the peanut shape ones) put extra glass over the top...go the quad...12" up for the fronts 7" up for the rears 1/4" toe in for fronts... run the rears parallel..no toe in and use foiled fins front and back...it will light that thing up

Blueprint, thanks for that link, think i'll use that in next build (chambered hollow wood) i'll have a bit more meat in the back end, cutting it fine with this build.

Hobbie, thanks for to tip on "shapers" was hoping to shop local. The shopping list is growing, cant quite work out the pricing on the s-plugs, single $4.40, 10 pack $165. Think i'll use the peanut shape ones anyway.

Arkgee, just when i decide to go tri-fin you sugest quad, decisions, decisions. Further to your measurement recomodations would 1 1/8" from rail be around mark.

Fusion plugs are strong but it's easier to fit the standard FCS plug.

The problem with fusions is that if you hit something and they do rip out they take off the surrounding glass and make a real mess of the board becasue the glass goes over the plug.

For kiteboards I prefer the standard FCS plug because it is fitted through the glass and most often pulls out cleanly (well much cleaner than the fusion) so if you do hit something it's easier to repair.

I don't think I've ever ripped a set of plugs out surfing, but I've taken out quite a few fins kiting.

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pirrad said...

Blueprint, thanks for that link, think i'll use that in next build (chambered hollow wood) i'll have a bit more meat in the back end, cutting it fine with this build.

Hobbie, thanks for to tip on "shapers" was hoping to shop local. The shopping list is growing, cant quite work out the pricing on the s-plugs, single $4.40, 10 pack $165. Think i'll use the peanut shape ones anyway.

Arkgee, just when i decide to go tri-fin you sugest quad, decisions, decisions. Further to your measurement recomodations would 1 1/8" from rail be around mark.

sorry didnt mention that...yeah 1 1/8" for fronts but the rears work better if they are any where from 1 3/4" to 2" in from rail...1 3/4" if narrow tail

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Hunter S said...

Fusion plugs are strong but it's easier to fit the standard FCS plug.

The problem with fusions is that if you hit something and they do rip out they take off the surrounding glass and make a real mess of the board becasue the glass goes over the plug.

For kiteboards I prefer the standard FCS plug because it is fitted through the glass and most often pulls out cleanly (well much cleaner than the fusion) so if you do hit something it's easier to repair.

I don't think I've ever ripped a set of plugs out surfing, but I've taken out quite a few fins kiting.

I could not keep the round plugs in....forever repairing them (kiteboard at least) my current kite board is over 12 months old now... been well used and so far (touch wood )no damage with the fusion...yes you are right hunter more damage when they go but more force is needeed in the first place so there's the trade off.

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arkgee said...

Hunter S said...

Fusion plugs are strong but it's easier to fit the standard FCS plug.

The problem with fusions is that if you hit something and they do rip out they take off the surrounding glass and make a real mess of the board becasue the glass goes over the plug.

For kiteboards I prefer the standard FCS plug because it is fitted through the glass and most often pulls out cleanly (well much cleaner than the fusion) so if you do hit something it's easier to repair.

I don't think I've ever ripped a set of plugs out surfing, but I've taken out quite a few fins kiting.

I could not keep the round plugs in....forever repairing them (kiteboard at least) my current kite board is over 12 months old now... been well used and so far (touch wood )no damage with the fusion...yes you are right hunter more damage when they go but more force is needeed in the first place so there's the trade off.

I think this very much depends on whether the breaks you ride have sand bottoms or reef. If you hit reef at speed any plug will tear out - these reef impacts are usually straight on hits to the leading edge. On sand bottoms side forces are more common when you turn after heading into the beach. Fusion plugs take that side load well. On reef breaks the standard plugs mean a lot less repair work.

The thing with the standard round plug is there needs to be resin and fibres going through to the top side of the board - see pattiecannons post earlier on. This resin and fibre through to the deck increases the support to the plug so it can take the load.

This is the link to the Web site I was talking about.

For all your board making gear,

shapers.com.au/surfboard-eps-and-surfboard-pu-blanks/

on the topic of fins, Ive got a 5'8 takoon with future quad fins and really love it.

But I have broken a fin so looking at what is out there.

I know very little about fins so if someone could give me a quick and dirty on what size, shape etc suits riding styles and rider weights it would be appreciated.