I haven’t posted here in some time, but I just want to share an experience I had today that could have been extremely serious.

I was kiting today about 2-300m downwind of the flags. There were 2 swimmers in the white wash zone and I was keeping an eye on them so I knew where they were when I was heading back into the beach before dropping into a wave and heading down wind.

Anyway, I had to do a big tack to get back upwind. On my tack back towards the beach I spotted the 2 swimmers about 50-70m downwind from me. I dropped into a wave, but it closed out, so I beared off a bit to out run it when suddenly this swimmer, who I had no idea was even there sticks his head out from under the water about 1m from me.

God only knows how I managed to miss him, but somehow my reactions were quick enough and I was able to move the point of my board a few cm's as it was going to impact with guys skull.... it was way to close. Anyway the guy was in total shock (so was I) and he starts blowing up at me and I'm like mate I just did not see you, I had no idea you were there, I'm sorry etc etc etc.

It was a close call, I'm sure the guy would have been killed if I hit him. I'm guessing the guy got into the water when I was on my tack out.

So I just want to remind everyone to be VERY VERY careful of swimmers on our beaches, especially now that it's coming into school holidays and more people will be in the water.


Matt

2 swimmers 50 - 70m down wind of u could EASILY be avoided and u shuda moved down wind of them anyway.

Select to expand quote

Charl dv said...

2 swimmers 50 - 70m down wind of u could EASILY be avoided and u shuda moved down wind of them anyway.

Doe's this depend on who was there first?. It actually raises an interesting question. If Like harks said you were an appropriate distance from the flags in his example 2-300m, and enjoying a break without swimmers, but then some swimmers decide to go for a swim/bodysurf right on the bank you are surfing, who should get out the way? I think that fair rule would be for the swimmers to get out the way of the kiter BUT we all know that if something were to happen then the kiter would be deemed at fault given our place in the pecking order according to the powers that be. You could pose the same question but change the swimmers for surfers. What do people think?

kiter would be at fault as they would be causing the accident. moving 70m down wind wont kill ya. using the kiter vs swimmer arguement is same as car vs pedestrian.

oh and for the surfers thing its kinda similar - we are more mobile so its up to us to try to avoid the others kinda thing.. much easier for us to tack down wind and avoid a surfer than for them to try frantically paddle to get out of our way

one question. Was this mew swimmer between the flags? If not, the he is an idiot and IMO is at fault. Much easier for you to keep track of swimmers if they stay were they are supposed to swim. Flags are there for a reason.

Good quick response to you though.

Close call Matty you wont have to worry about swimmers down the coast as you will only see them between the flags ahhhh got love the south coast best wind and waves on the east coast and no crowds.

See ya down there for XMAS bring on the longggggg dwnnnnn winderrrrrrrsss.

Select to expand quote

fleurieu said...

one question. Was this mew swimmer between the flags? If not, the he is an idiot and IMO is at fault. Much easier for you to keep track of swimmers if they stay were they are supposed to swim. Flags are there for a reason.

Good quick response to you though.

swimmers dont HAVE to swim between the flags. I much prefer to go for a body bash away from the flags and stay clear of the crowd who generally congregate in these areas.
People have the right to swim wherever they want. It is up to them to decide whether they can handle the conditions.

noone is 'at fault', just a near miss that has reminded everyone to keep their eyes peeled while kiting at crouded beaches.

Select to expand quote

WillyO said...

fleurieu said...

one question. Was this mew swimmer between the flags? If not, the he is an idiot and IMO is at fault. Much easier for you to keep track of swimmers if they stay were they are supposed to swim. Flags are there for a reason.

Good quick response to you though.

swimmers dont HAVE to swim between the flags. I much prefer to go for a body bash away from the flags and stay clear of the crowd who generally congregate in these areas.
People have the right to swim wherever they want. It is up to them to decide whether they can handle the conditions.

noone is 'at fault', just a near miss that has reminded everyone to keep their eyes peeled while kiting at crouded beaches.

That's my interpretation - surfing, kiting, windsurfers have to stay outside the blue flags that border the yellow and red flags - but, swimmers can go where they like, however they are strongly advised to stay between the red and yellow flags. If you ran into a swimmer outside the flags no-one would say it was your fault - in hark's case, I think you were trying to exercise due care, and thats why we have patrolled zones to make it safer for swimmers.

Reminds me of a funny experience in France - I was swimming on the West Coast of France, (it feels a lot like Aus to me there in some ways) and you HAVE to swim between the flags - if you start drifting out of the zone a lifeguard starts blowing his whistle like crazy and signalling for you to move back between the flags. It was a washing machine that day though and that may have had something to do with it.

Select to expand quote

WillyO said...

fleurieu said...

one question. Was this mew swimmer between the flags? If not, the he is an idiot and IMO is at fault. Much easier for you to keep track of swimmers if they stay were they are supposed to swim. Flags are there for a reason.

Good quick response to you though.

swimmers dont HAVE to swim between the flags. I much prefer to go for a body bash away from the flags and stay clear of the crowd who generally congregate in these areas.
People have the right to swim wherever they want. It is up to them to decide whether they can handle the conditions.

noone is 'at fault', just a near miss that has reminded everyone to keep their eyes peeled while kiting at crouded beaches.

That's incorrect. The kiter is always at fault, because by law you must be 60m from a swimmer or swimming zone in NSW. The reality is, it is difficult if you don't know they are there.
Here is a link for NSW waterways rules; scroll down to kitesurf section
www.rms.nsw.gov.au/maritime/index.html

We all know not to run people over, but swimmers should be between the flags and if not its swim at your own risk. I would have had a word back to the swimmer to let him know the flags is the safe place to swim.

We have some dramas here with swimmers off a particular groyne. They get a little upset if we go close to them, but they have another groyne that we arent allowed near and dont go near 500m away. We have to stick up for ourselves sometimes and not just let everyone walk over us.

Of course you dont run people over to make a point.

just tell the swimmer of the huge nowa close to them

Good on you Harks98 for coming on and sharing the story. From what you say it sounds like your alot more attentive to your surrounds than most others and this sort of thing still happened. It's not a bad thing to come on here and just give everyone a reminder to not get complacent and be alert.

Remeber guys, last year one of the Perth metro kiters went through exactly the same sinario, but he actually ended up cutting the swimmer open if I recall correctly. It does happen, and it's getting to the festive season where there are 10 times more people getting to the beach.

It could happen to anyone.

Select to expand quote

fleurieu said...

one question. Was this mew swimmer between the flags? If not, the he is an idiot and IMO is at fault. Much easier for you to keep track of swimmers if they stay were they are supposed to swim. Flags are there for a reason.

Good quick response to you though.

Kn hell dood. Take your head out ofya bum for a second.

Kiters explode at the mere mention of potential bans at fav spots and yet you expect swimmers to only be allowed to swim between the flags or they are at fault in a situation like this? WTF??

We are the hazard and we need to keep an eye out.

Situations like Hark has mentioned (top marks for posting BTW) are so easy to get into. We all get bit complacent, as well as visibility issues with spray/sun/suncream inya eyes etc.

I would have cr@pped my daks if this had happened to me. Personally the closest i have come was (already airborne) in a decent sized boost seeing a surfer pop up from under a passing wave right where I was heading. I did have the usual look prior but he was not to be seen. Had to do some pretty out there kite movement (ha ha - unintentional very powered boost transition) and missed him by a bit in the end. Had I not looked down or he had popped up a sec later it would have been very, very close.

Have been looking thoroughly when in the shore area ever since.

Yep well said Funky, swimmers have every right to swim outside the flags, we just have to be very vigilant and give them some space if we see them.
People kiting at Mullaloo have probably noticed the guy that swims upwind most afternoons, close to sunset, just behind the breakers, around the area the kiters usually are.
Yep I reckon he is crazy and I think he should use some common sense and swim further up the beach or wear a fluoro cap or something but he has just as much right to be there as us and has probably been doining it for years.
Brighton is another area where it is annoying when people go for a swim right infront of where all the kiters are, crazy I know but if there is a collision we will be the ones that are viewed as villans so we just have to be aware at all times.

If the swimmer was badly injured and the matter went to court, then the judge would probably consider the negligence of each party.

If the kiter is 200m downwind of the flags, keeping a lookout and travelling at a safe speed then there is no perceivable negligence on his/her part.

If the swimmer is out of the flagged areas and not making themselves visible to other water users, then the swimmer is being negligent.

If a drunk walks out in front of a car travelling safely at the speed limit, who is at fault? Def not the driver if he does everything in his ability to avoid a collision.

IMO, its a similar situation to: www.smh.com.au/national/lack-of-lights-key-factor-in-fatal-ferry-crash-inquest-20091111-i8uc.html

Spot on, Get Funky.

Swimmer (who is not pizzed or crossing a road with inherent hazards as such) has almost zero chance of causing damage to others.

Kiter has potential for fatality to anyone in their path.

No shared blame there if you ask me.

Totally agree that punters seem oblivious to the proximity of kites etc at popluar spots. Almost as though they have a death-wish or something? I certainly wouldn't swim at Brighton (WA) when the breeze was up. Again though, looking from the other side, why do we kite at popular swimming spots ey?

Brighton was always popular for swimming and fishing (see a whole other thread for dramas there) decades before kites came. So just why are we kiting there, right where the paths lead down?

Despite voluntary user group attemptes to ensure all kiters enter/exit the water 50-100m upwind of where the beach paths are, it doesn't make squat differance. We are all lazy (kiters and punters) and all want easy access for our chosen pastimes.

Take resposibility for your potential to harm, give a wide berth to any other users and we should be sweet.

Flags or no flags, like any sport, the smimmer/pedestrian etc is always going to get paid if you end up face to face in court (if they survive) so really at the end of the day right or wrong means very little. If your on or in something and hit a smimmer/spectator/pedestrian you really are going to come off second best one way or another especialy if you operate without insurance (which I know the association members probably have).

I almost cleaned up a surfer nooby who appeared out of nowhere as i came back into shore this morning. Had to ditch and take a hammering to avoid him.. there'd been been no-one there when i started.

Seems most public somehow think we have total control and regularly put themselves in critically dangerous positions, no matter how obvious it seems to us that we keep coming back in to that same beach break launch spot.

Gets worse as summer brings in more tourists- even the locals don't get it

Select to expand quote

whatthe said...

If the swimmer was badly injured and the matter went to court, then the judge would probably consider the negligence of each party.

If the kiter is 200m downwind of the flags, keeping a lookout and travelling at a safe speed then there is no perceivable negligence on his/her part.

If the swimmer is out of the flagged areas and not making themselves visible to other water users, then the swimmer is being negligent.

If a drunk walks out in front of a car travelling safely at the speed limit, who is at fault? Def not the driver if he does everything in his ability to avoid a collision.

IMO, its a similar situation to: www.smh.com.au/national/lack-of-lights-key-factor-in-fatal-ferry-crash-inquest-20091111-i8uc.html

Sound like you have some legal expertise? Good to hear a non-emotional response.

Of course we have a responsibility to take care. But was is going through a swimmers head when 20 kiters take off from one part of a long beach and 2 swimmers decide to go for a swim in the middle of everyone. Suddenly 20 kites have to move down the beach?

Select to expand quote

whatthe said...

If the swimmer was badly injured and the matter went to court, then the judge would probably consider the negligence of each party.

If the kiter is 200m downwind of the flags, keeping a lookout and travelling at a safe speed then there is no perceivable negligence on his/her part.

If the swimmer is out of the flagged areas and not making themselves visible to other water users, then the swimmer is being negligent.

You are a braver man than I if you think these two assumptions will save you.

definitely an expensive argument in the courts

I reckon just avoid swimmers and others,
dont crash into swimmers,
if there is a serious injury your in for a sh!t fight
your probably not insured and any asset you own is up for grabs by an agrieved party, imo