I love surfing on my back hand but find it quite fustrating with the kite, I don't know if its my technique or my kite. I fly a north rebel and find when I'm riding out towards the wave, turn hit the lip of the wave, then drop down the wave towards my kite it starts to fall out of the sky. So I have to whip it back up the wave and back down the wave the whole time to keep it from stalling, but in doing this I find the kite pulling me around the whole time not letting me surf the wave. I have noticed other guys out and they just seem to be able to cruise straight down the wave without having to fly the kite around. I know that the rebel isn't the best wave kite out there but surely it is more capable than what I'm getting out of it, I'm thinking it's to do with me more than the kite. Otherwise those other more wave specific kites must be amazing. Any tips would be greatly appreciated .

Cheers

Mate get a Reo, they don't stall at all, it makes all the difference. I am an average kiter and this kite makes all the difference for me, just my 2 cents.

i find that more speed helps. it sounds counter intuitive but the faster down the line you go (within reason) the less input the kite needs to keep flying. a little bit of pressure on the toeside rail is all it needs to regain line tension. whereas if you are going too slow you have less power to edge back into the kite when it starts to stall and you need to generate it by whipping the kite.

i don't think it's the kite choice. after being on fuels for years i recently bought a surf specific kite and i don't think the drift is much better. i was blaming the kite for my poor technique.

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PRAWNDOG said...

I love surfing on my back hand but find it quite fustrating with the kite, I don't know if its my technique or my kite. I fly a north rebel and find when I'm riding out towards the wave, turn hit the lip of the wave, then drop down the wave towards my kite it starts to fall out of the sky. So I have to whip it back up the wave and back down the wave the whole time to keep it from stalling, but in doing this I find the kite pulling me around the whole time not letting me surf the wave. I have noticed other guys out and they just seem to be able to cruise straight down the wave without having to fly the kite around. I know that the rebel isn't the best wave kite out there but surely it is more capable than what I'm getting out of it, I'm thinking it's to do with me more than the kite. Otherwise those other more wave specific kites must be amazing. Any tips would be greatly appreciated .

Cheers

What kind were those good ones?

Sounds to me like the kite is too high aspect. So yes, get a lower aspect wave style kite.

You can make higher aspect kites work in the waves. but you have to keep line tension. Looping workes well down the line.

Try a Vegas, they drift down the line with you, turn on their wing tip, and don't wrench you around like the rebel.
Rumour is the Neo is even better. I have yet to try it.

You could also have a fiddle with the trim settings(depower strap)
Should be able to (carefully) on the beach unhook (bar comes all the way in)and not have the kite stall when you walk/run downwind a couple of yards with it,reef it in a notch or two if it is, until it doesn't, regardless of whether you unhook or not when in the water . I only adjust mine when changing kites on the same bar, if i start getting blown over i downsize kites.

a couple of vertical turns will help occasionally too!

Thanks for the advice I'll try make some adjustments and let you know how I go, hopefully I don't get my kite rolled in the surf to much in the process lol. I don't really want to go out and buy a new kite just yet but possibly later on when I got some more coin I might get a Reo or BWS.

hey prawn dog.i used to fly a rebel (the back stalling,the getting yanked around with the kite.its not your kiting skill its the kite).as the lads have stated get a reo,cab drifter,or a rrd religion.5 strut kite to a 3 strut, kite.big difference.i bought a rrd religion,compared to the rebel,chalk and cheese, give the lads at s.o.s in freo a call for a demo.cheers

Hey man,

Correct me if im wrong but i dont think your having issues with the kite back stalling...i think it is more so just you riding downwind and the kite not drifting with you?

If this is the case, there are a bunch of kite that wont do this, however my own personal opinion is that the BWS noise kite drifts better than any other kite on the market, may not have the turning speed of the reo or the re-launch of an evo, but when it comes to down the line, park and ride kites the Noise does it for me!

Marcel

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cel23 said...
Hey man,

Correct me if im wrong but i dont think your having issues with the kite back stalling...i think it is more so just you riding downwind and the kite not drifting with you?

If this is the case, there are a bunch of kite that wont do this, however my own personal opinion is that the BWS noise kite drifts better than any other kite on the market, may not have the turning speed of the reo or the re-launch of an evo, but when it comes to down the line, park and ride kites the Noise does it for me!

Marcel

He refers to his kite falling out of the sky, isn't that back stalling mate???

Hey Marno,
I feel like a stick in the mud here but I reckon Cel is right.

"Backstalling" is something that usually happens in conditions a bit lightish for you kite when you're trying to get some power that simply can't be accessed. The kite is travelling in the direction of the cord of the kite when a backstall happens. Or at least that's what I've found.

When a drifting kite (one that's being surfed) loses it's place and starts wobbling off to the soup it is going backwards, but it is also traveling in the direction of around 90 degrees to it's cord. This to me makes it something similar but different to your regular back stall.

It seems it's something that hasn't got an official name yet.
Any one heard some good colloquial speak for this bit of wave kite wobble (as bigus dickus would probably say) ?

Back stall is pulling the bar in too much and the kite drifts back in the window. usually in light wind. its a product of too much rear line tension.

the kite falling out of the sky is not back stall. What you are doing by running at the kite down the line you catch up the kites speed and loose line tension. in this case if the kite doesn't drift with you it simply falls out of the sky.

the remedy is more line tension. cut back to create tension again or loop while going down wind to retain tension.

But as stated higher aspect kites do not like to drift and need line tension or they simply fall from the sky. lower aspect wave kites can drift back alot more before they get to the same point of falling from the sky. faster kites also can be worked alot easier so they don't loose line tension.

So the issues are:

1. Kite not drifting
2. Kite pulling off wave

Is it possible to try a smaller kite? It will be lighter so will drift better, plus will pull you around less when on the wave.

There is always some input required when surfing down the line. Perhaps slighter adjustments may keep the kite in the air without pulling you around so much?

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Plummet said...

the remedy is more line tension. cut back to create tension again or loop while going down wind to retain tension.

I reckon plummet is spot on. It doesn't matter what kite you have If you run too fast at your kite it wont like it. Some kites may be better than the rebel for drifting, but I know a couple of guys that absolutely rip in the waves on rebels, so if I was you I would work on your technique rather than just changing kites

I'm trying new things with with my technique mixing up my approach a bit, the more time on the water the better anyway. I'm not really in a position to just go buy a new kite, so for now I'm making do with what I got. I'm still having fun out there just find it harder on my back hand.For the record its when I'm riding down the wave towards my kite when the lines get a bit of slack, the kite starts to fall. I really need to keep flying the kite around (to keep tension in the lines) to keep it up. This is when I'm at the kites mercy and find it pulling me around, rather than me surfing down the wave. I have tried a few things mentioned tying to maintain a bit of an edge, more speed, trying more turns. I have made it sort of work a few times by hitting the wave faster and trying to time the turns when the lines get slack to get tension back in them. But allot easier said than done and it is not really feeling like I'm using the energy of the wave but the energy of my kite. I'll keep practicing till I get it right, some of the guy's out there make it look so easy [}:)].

Hey pd, here are a few things to try. Your technique will vary depending on wind direction. It's a rare location and day when you get smooth conditions that you can just park your kite, and smash the lip down the line. So for those other days here's a few things.......concentrate on surfing in the pocket as much as possible. Don't get pulled along the face, unless you need to make a section or final move on wave. try to vary you speed and lines on the wave. practise stalling. Try hard fast toeside turns in the flat shallows. they will become the template for your carving re-entry. push as hard as you can with them. speed is the key. Assuming its cross on try flying your kite forward over the lip then flicking it back up to about 45 degrees, (keep kite still facing upwards at same angle) let the bar out, you should get at least one re-entry in while the kite backs up (drifts). Be ready to fade, cut back to get tension back in lines. More Onshore is good for punting. I'm sure your familiar with following your kite with surfing moves. Ie throw the the kite in a figure S and follow with a re-entry. You can nearly always force a floater in most conditions. Some other tips for making it easier. Shorter surfboards that can carve a tight turn as well as a drawn out line work well. Kite wise, the smallest kite you can hold ground with is better for surfing the wave unless your punting big. To test/tune ur kite on land when noone is around try parking at 12 and giving the front lines a light tug it should stay in the air. Try a brisk walk down wind in same direction as you would be riding waves and test where you have to put the kite and bar sheeting to park/drift it. It's all fun.

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samoht said...
Try a Vegas, they drift down the line with you, turn on their wing tip, and don't wrench you around like the rebel.
Rumour is the Neo is even better. I have yet to try it.

I have a vegas 8 and a Neo 10 . Neo is an amazing drifter and i never feel like i'm about to drop it, when i do, it just hangs around n the air like magic.
It turns as fast or faster than the vegas, Vegas is not good in waves and relaunch is appalling

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marno said...

cel23 said...
Hey man,

Correct me if im wrong but i dont think your having issues with the kite back stalling...i think it is more so just you riding downwind and the kite not drifting with you?

If this is the case, there are a bunch of kite that wont do this, however my own personal opinion is that the BWS noise kite drifts better than any other kite on the market, may not have the turning speed of the reo or the re-launch of an evo, but when it comes to down the line, park and ride kites the Noise does it for me!

Marcel

He refers to his kite falling out of the sky, isn't that back stalling mate???

Why would you compare it to the North evo, when the North Neo is the wave specific kite.

Here's a tip for backside riders who decide to flick-off small/med waves prematurely.

Please look over your shoulder first ... before flicking-off.

Then you'll be able to see if anyone has taken off on the following wave while you are still riding.

If your wave isn't overhead high, you can look over the lip towards the horizon as you ride.

Then you'll be able to check for rider(s) fanging down-the-line on the next incoming wave.

Waves come in sets.

Frontsiders know this.

lol.

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pattiecannon said...
Hey Marno,
I feel like a stick in the mud here but I reckon Cel is right.

"Backstalling" is something that usually happens in conditions a bit lightish for you kite when you're trying to get some power that simply can't be accessed. The kite is travelling in the direction of the cord of the kite when a backstall happens. Or at least that's what I've found.

When a drifting kite (one that's being surfed) loses it's place and starts wobbling off to the soup it is going backwards, but it is also traveling in the direction of around 90 degrees to it's cord. This to me makes it something similar but different to your regular back stall.

It seems it's something that hasn't got an official name yet.
Any one heard some good colloquial speak for this bit of wave kite wobble (as bigus dickus would probably say) ?

I officially call it the oh **** moment

Tried using a smaller surfboard I had laying around in my garage that I never use as I hate it for surfing. The board is pretty skinny and thin, I found this board perfect out there with my kite. I was thinking the extra drag of having a smaller board out there just helped keep a bit more tension in the lines and was sweet to throw around, so smooth either way it seems much better. Still a bit of technique to master but heaps more fun on the backhand, can't wait till my next session .

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tgcp said...

pattiecannon said...
Hey Marno,
I feel like a stick in the mud here but I reckon Cel is right.

"Backstalling" is something that usually happens in conditions a bit lightish for you kite when you're trying to get some power that simply can't be accessed. The kite is travelling in the direction of the cord of the kite when a backstall happens. Or at least that's what I've found.

When a drifting kite (one that's being surfed) loses it's place and starts wobbling off to the soup it is going backwards, but it is also traveling in the direction of around 90 degrees to it's cord. This to me makes it something similar but different to your regular back stall.

It seems it's something that hasn't got an official name yet.
Any one heard some good colloquial speak for this bit of wave kite wobble (as bigus dickus would probably say) ?

I officially call it the oh **** moment

haha, classic tg, or for a PG version, how do you like the 'sailmakers shuffle" ? 'Moti's money stall" ? or the "Fun tax wobble" ?

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PRAWNDOG said...
Tried using a smaller surfboard I had laying around in my garage that I never use as I hate it for surfing. The board is pretty skinny and thin, I found this board perfect out there with my kite. I was thinking the extra drag of having a smaller board out there just helped keep a bit more tension in the lines and was sweet to throw around, so smooth either way it seems much better. Still a bit of technique to master but heaps more fun on the backhand, can't wait till my next session .

Sounds like you were outrunning the kite, something that can happen with almost any kite on big waves and light wind, its an over flying effect where the kite isnt overflying in actual fact.
Counter measure by doing tighter turns on the wave, your probably going too fast down the line for the Rebel.
I dont fly the Rebel myself, but seeing the lift guys get boosting, I can imagine it will want to rip you off the board when whiping it around in the way you have discribed, where as a drfter or Reo wont develop that punch when moving it around.

If you figure 8 your top turn back toward the peak it keeps tension on the kite and then your bottom turn sets up behind the peak so you hit again at the critical section in the wave. Most guys are missing this so they go to far down the line towards the kite and away from the pocket where the snaps look and feel the best. This happens with most waves its rare to have sections to chase all the time.. I will post an example in a minute when I find one.
As far as gear yes some kites fly backwards better than others.

Ok watch Sky from 33seconds and the lines he is drawing in the ssw breeze down south, he doesnt go to the shoulder he is almost cutting back on his bottom turn...but you can see the difference.

BTW Sky is on a older North Rebel...)08 model. Strapped or strapless the same applies...