I've seen countless people rig their back lines through their bridles accidentally, and today I saw another case.

I'm a little confused why they don't just teach the guys to rig downwind where people can see there are no issues with the setup without having to put lines under a kite where potentially things can go wrong.

Im only a newbie and my Instructor taught me the same way, said it was because if I rigged it downwind my bar would be reversed and it may cause me to confuse my controls, ive never had problems with it, most lines are colour coded arent they? Either way I was taught both ways, but Ive seen one or two people confuse their lines, i figure if you just keep your connections clear from one another you cant go wrong.

With all bow/hybrid/SLE kites, you should always rig downwind where possible for the following reasons -

1/. Little chance of crossing your lines as the 4/5 lines go straight up behind the kite and connect straight through,

2/. If your kite takes off for any reason while you are rigging, you are downwind of it and hopefully you can catch the kite, and also the lines will not get tensioned up until kite goes past you and another 25m downwind. Rig it any other way, the lines will tension up right away.

I've always rigged downwind, just seems more sensible to me. never stuffed it up either

havent you guys got g/f? what the hell are YOU rigging your own kites for?

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Saffer said...

I've seen countless people rig their back lines through their bridles accidentally, and today I saw another case.

I'm a little confused why they don't just teach the guys to rig downwind where people can see there are no issues with the setup without having to put lines under a kite where potentially things can go wrong.

Too right Saffer!!!
All instructors should show students both ways, and there is a third way too, connect the front lines first then unwind crosswind, walk back separating the rears from the centres, its the Fokiten way!
It works well if everyone does it that way at small beaches, because your lines are already in the direction that you will launch the kite.

Down wind rigging is fine, if a person cannot recognise which side of the bar goes in which hand, they are going to quit kiting (maybe living too) pretty fast!!

Upwind is easier to walk through the lines, much easier in stronger winds.

Use whatever way works, but yeah you have to be real careful about rigging through a bridle.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

Rigging down wind doesn't solve any problems that checking your rigging before you launch won't, and you should probably double check it anyway, takes 5 seconds.

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Kitepower Australia said...


there is a third way too, connect the front lines first then unwind crosswind

I wish more people would do this - when it's busy and people are launching/landing rigging crosswind is the best. Like Steve said, you are then ready to go!

I prefer rigging downwind. You can stand at the kite and check the bridles and line connections then stand at the end of the bar and sight the lines all the way from the bar to the kite. The lines are tight and connected in exactly the way they would be in flight.

As Steve says walking lines upwind is also easier.

As for the bar, I match the colour to the hand I pick it up with and don't let go until the kite is launched.

Another thing that needs to be taught, especially for bow kites, is to push out the bar as the kite comes up. I have watched so many guys getting dragged across the beach hauling on the bar and powering up the kite when all they have to do is let go of the bar.

In general the solution to all problems with bow kites is to push out the bar or even drop the bar completely.

I rig upwind all the time - I self launch either on the sand by dragging the kite or by parking my car upwind (beach or estuary) and using the tow ball to launch. Rigging up wind or down win are both the same - just have to remember if you have bridles to make sure they are always on top of your lines if you rig upwind - easy way to do it to lay your lines out - then place your kite a few meters up your lines on top of them.

Dont know if one way or the other is "cooler" but they all work as long as there is some common sense within the operator

Agree with Steve - there isn't a right or wrong way to do it. A lot depends on your set-up/launch location and the available space. Get your head around all three variations that Steve has described, and select the method that is most fool-proof for you.

Downwind has got to be the most fool proof kook proof what eva easy peasy

Leave your bar and lines connected to the kite. Roll up your lines, half hitch in lines over bar, roll up kite. Problem sorted

lol.
The IKO can't even firm up on one simple standard rigging method.
It all comes down to the gurus personal preference.
Upwind, downwind, crosswind.....take your pick, newbie.
This whole kitedragging-school gig is a dogs breakfast.

I unwind to the side, slightly upwind, then walk the lines out and attach. This way if no ones around to launch me I can just move a few more degrees upwind and self launch. If someone is around then it's simply clip on safety grab bar move till kite takes shape and go, also saving the launcher time waiting.

I'm going to try the idea of connecting the front lines that does make sense. That would reduce the ends tangling if the wind gets them, plus your sort of double checking without realising. If I didn't have swivel on my front lines I would think twice on that method maybe

Saffer, why don't Instructors teach the way you describe?

It is obvious from the replies that some us still do.

I for one never stopped and continue to teach that way. Only describing the front first as an option for when a student becomes confident enough to know he is doing it right.

The downwind setup is also the exact system you need for side setup as is popular at places like Altona when you need to setup on the Grass.

But as in any system, perfect practice makes perfect.

Its good Saffer raised this issue, however it does not matter what method an instructor teaches, provided he does not teach the lift the kite over the lines method with a bridled bow!!!

That method goes out the window with bridled bows, even with kites like the Instincts!

Upwind method

The correct method for bridled bows is to pull the bridles out the front of the kite and connect directly to the bridles without moving the kite.
Or run the lines around to the rear of the kite, but not under it.
With an Instinct or 5th line kite, either pull the 5th bridle out the front, or put the 5th line under the kite, being extra careful to not run the 5th around or through an bridling.

Sidewind

Pull the bridles out the front, only connect front lines first if your centre line has a swivel.

Downwind

Everything is obvioulsy correct when you give the lines a bit of a tug, coloured side of bar in the left hand.


Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

Hi steve, not sure if this solves the problem, in the case I saw, the bridle was through itself, which may not be that visible from the upwind side (because half of the bridle is under the kite) but was obvious from a downwind side.

on a separate note, I think the instructions who use the upside down bar as an excuse are kidding themselves, if the guy can't see which lines are going to which side of the kite when its in launch position there is something seriously wrong and they could find themselves in the same boat when trying to relaunch the kite upside down anyway.

My kite (north Rebel) only has 5 strings. without bridles and all that other webbing crap on the LE. Its easy for me to rig with kite upwind.. well because its the way i was tought.

Information passed on to us at the IKO instructors course we did recently:

Presently, the IKO favours rigging your lines downwind so as to provide you with the opportunity to simply and easily check your lines from bar to kite without having the kite in a position where it could potentially power up and immediately tension the lines.

When I first started kiting, I used to rig downwind. Then, I noticed some of the guys rigging upwind because it was easier to run the lines out with the wind rather than into the wind. So, I adopted this method.

Since the IKO course, I've gone back to rigging downwind because I *can* see the merits of doing it that way, even if it is a little inconvenient sometimes to have to run my lines out into the wind. It also provides my students with a very obvious and simple way to make sure they've attached their lines correctly. Being able to check the lines from one end to the other, by themselves, by simply picking up the bar is a good idea IMO.

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Saffer said...

Hi steve, not sure if this solves the problem, in the case I saw, the bridle was through itself, which may not be that visible from the upwind side (because half of the bridle is under the kite) but was obvious from a downwind side.

on a separate note, I think the instructions who use the upside down bar as an excuse are kidding themselves, if the guy can't see which lines are going to which side of the kite when its in launch position there is something seriously wrong and they could find themselves in the same boat when trying to relaunch the kite upside down anyway.

Agree totally with your call on that lame excuse about mistaking the correct ends of the bar to hold, its always been a joke IMO.

With the bridles, you can pull the entire bridle out the front of the kite and check it there for "throughs", clear it of any then connect up, with no chance of making a mistake.

With the downwind method
If your kite bar has a swivelling centre line, then connect the front lines first and walk away downwind unwinding all your lines, put the bar down redor coloured side on the right.
Walk back to the kite, but now only needing to sort out your rears, connect, go back the bar and either sort the centre line twists then, ot launch and unwind the twists in the water maunually once offshore and out of the way of others.

If your lines are really messed up, just stand at the bar end and pull your rear lines back to you, then grab the two end ands walk up to the kite and connect.

East down wind connection method in ANY wind strength.

Its the method I would recommend with all bows, but generally teach or recommend what the person is already familiar with, still offer the alternative though.

Its so handy to know up and downwind, especially at beaches where eveyone copies each other, or its crowded. Sometimes its a no brainer to go the opposite way, and have no hassles to launch in a tight/crowded spot.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

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Kitepower Australia said...

Its good Saffer raised this issue, however it does not matter what method an instructor teaches, provided he does not teach the lift the kite over the lines method with a bridled bow!!!

That method goes out the window with bridled bows, even with kites like the Instincts!

Upwind method

The correct method for bridled bows is to pull the bridles out the front of the kite and connect directly to the bridles without moving the kite.
Or run the lines around to the rear of the kite, but not under it.
With an Instinct or 5th line kite, either pull the 5th bridle out the front, or put the 5th line under the kite, being extra careful to not run the 5th around or through an bridling.

Sidewind

Pull the bridles out the front, only connect front lines first if your centre line has a swivel.

Downwind

Everything is obvioulsy correct when you give the lines a bit of a tug, coloured side of bar in the left hand.


Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

Well,I thought I knew it all.

Steve,why do you say not to lift Bow kites over the lines ?

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[b]Kitepower Australia said..
Upwind method

The correct method for bridled bows is to pull the bridles out the front of the kite and connect directly to the bridles without moving the kite.
Or run the lines around to the rear of the kite, but not under it.
With an Instinct or 5th line kite, either pull the 5th bridle out the front, or put the 5th line under the kite, being extra careful to not run the 5th around or through an bridling.

Agree entirely with that method-it's the one I use EVERY time and EVERY time I run my lines EXACTLY the same way-it's VERY easy to see if the bridle is through when you pull the lines out the front of the kite.

it comes down to user preference and competance - I rig all my bows upwind and laying the kite over the lines (do that wiht my vapors now also) - that way when you pull the bridle back - you can see it has no tangles or twists - I see no reason why you shouldnt do it this way - as long as you are competent and aware of your surroundings.

The correct method isnt one way or another - its the way that suits the situation and the users experience - never had an issue doing it my way but I have seen people have plenty of issues doing this way and the other methods mentioned in this post- all comes down to operator competence... in everything they do!

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user said...

Kitepower Australia said...

Its good Saffer raised this issue, however it does not matter what method an instructor teaches, provided he does not teach the lift the kite over the lines method with a bridled bow!!!

That method goes out the window with bridled bows, even with kites like the Instincts!

Upwind method

The correct method for bridled bows is to pull the bridles out the front of the kite and connect directly to the bridles without moving the kite.
Or run the lines around to the rear of the kite, but not under it.
With an Instinct or 5th line kite, either pull the 5th bridle out the front, or put the 5th line under the kite, being extra careful to not run the 5th around or through an bridling.

Sidewind

Pull the bridles out the front, only connect front lines first if your centre line has a swivel.

Downwind

Everything is obvioulsy correct when you give the lines a bit of a tug, coloured side of bar in the left hand.


Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

Well,I thought I knew it all.

Steve,why do you say not to lift Bow kites over the lines ?

Only because of the increased risk, as Saffer has observed (me too) of threading a line through a bridle.
If you have a way of preventing a threaded line through abridle scenario, go ahead keep using it.

Biggest danger time I've found is when a mate or anyone stops you for chat while you are rigging, and you forget where you are at in your rigging routine.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

Saffer's point seems to be about avoiding passing lines through bridles when Setting lines up wind.

Others seem to be becoming defensive of up wind setups.
whichever way is chosen by each individual, as long as they are 100% confident that the way they setup is the safest for me, then i don't care.

I choose downwind as a priority because
1. this sets lines in plain line of sight.
2. you can pick up bar and get enough tension on lines to check for potential tangles.
3. all the IKO reasons Padi gave.
4. in the majority of cases we kite in some vector of onshore winds. setting up downwind usually means you are creating at least a lines length buffer from obstacles.
5. on launching, moving out to side and tensioning lines does not involve the lines being dragged under kite and risking entanglement.

Not a complete list, but I'm sure it will be added to by others.

Rigging upwind forces the launcher to temporarily stand inbetween the lines, I've seen people go @rse over t!t for this reason.

I agree with Gstar

The instructors have to teach safety sistems and expalin the bar, if you rigging upwind the bar is in the properly position and easier to expalin. Thats it

I am in a bit of a rush at the moment so I did not get a chance to read thu all the thread.

I am never in too much of a rush to check all is well on my kite/lines though b4 I put it up.



Safety First.

Hi Guys,

There appears to be a lot of strong opinions about how to rig and a few untruths.

IKO have NO PREFERED METHOD, don't know who taught you that Mr Bonk, but it aint true. IKO's position on this is teach either upwind OR downwind as both methods can be used depending upon the beach setup.

I do not teach downwind because the wind is too strong in WA and I don't have 30 minutes to untangle lines that are being blown back at me when I'm walking them out. Down wind is easier to explain to noobs, easier to run out (with the wind) and you can just as easily check by pulling the bridles out in front of the kite.

It is unnecessary to pull the kite up over the lines, just keep the lines out either side of the kite and attach the front (centre) lines first. It is fool proof.

Lastly: Double check the lines are right before you launch, this can be done by lifting up the front lines of the kite at the bridle and seeing them go directly to the centre of the bar with no crosses over the back lines.

The instruction I give to all the instructors in my courses is to pick a method you are familiar with and which is most commonly used at your local beach and stick to that method. I do not teach both methods as there are too many specifics of each method and the noobs are generally bordering on confused with just one way, adding a second method is just asking them to forget both methods!

Whatever you do, just be careful rigging, take your time and double check. Most lines are kook proof these days so screwing it up takes an effort.

Good winds,