For me, I really like to kite on the waves in light winds the waves are smoother with more vert.

I ride the 5'6" Firewire Vanguard and 12m reo. The combination of the efficiency of the vanguard through the water and the lightness and balance of the kite in the sky is so good i sometimes literally LOL.

For those who vilify others for wanting to kite light winds why?? There is not many better things to do after a sweaty dirty day at work to get on the smooth water with no one else out and then relax with an icy cool beer

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CJ2478 said..

KIT33R said..

Plummet said..

CJ2478 said..
Here is a light wind idea I have been pondering:

- What is better for riding in as low wind as possible (assume equal sizes); a 5 strut, 'freeride', high-ish aspect ratio (such as switchblade, edge, rebel, etc), or a 3 struct surf kite (eg drifter, neo, reo, etc). Given that the surf kite should turn faster (can work the kite through the window faster to generate speed), stay afloat better through the lulls, BUT is less efficient as a wing because it isnt as rigid like the 5 struct will?

What do you think?

There is no question the high aspect kite will kick the low aspect kites arse in light wind. No question at all. None.

The higher the projected aspect ratio the better upwind performance. The better upwind performance the better light wind performance.

Then if you want next level light wind performance again you need to step into a high aspect foil. My 12m chrono has superior light wind performance than a 17m zephur!

I hear what you say Plummet, but high aspect kites have greater parasitic drag due to the long frontal area and projected surface friction making them slower to turn and hence less able to build apparent wind. So, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that why surf kites will drift because they are more efficient in light wind having a high internal volume. I'm not sure "The better upwind performance - the better light wind performance" equates.

I think the lightness and cross sectional shape of foil kites has a lot to do with their performance.

Thats exactly what I was thinking. I think the high aaspect kites work better for upwind performance in 'park and ride' mode or when not too much 'working' of the kite is required. In my experience they turn too slow and to get the initial speed that you require in light wind.

High aspect kite point further forward in the wind window and can go upwind better. They so rely on apparent wind to build power. So... If you have a situation where you can't build speed (constantly being smashing by big white wash as an example) Then you may have a slight disadvantage over a lower aspect kite that builds obvious power faster.

However once past the white wash bashing the high aspect kite builds more speed and more power per m2 and cranks upwind better. I have not seen one instance when a lower aspect kite could out upwind a higher aspect kite of the same design using the similar boards. Higher aspect kites typically have a better projected area aswell which make them more efficient.

Short answer is the higher aspect kite will be better in light wind. Unless it is very heavy, badly designed ect.

In my experience the kite size is the least important factor in light wind riding. The board is far more important.

For the kite, anything will do as long as it is easy to keep in the air. In light winds if you drop your kite you're swimming. You really need to understand how to fly the kite in light winds and self rescue is an essential skill. You really can sail across the wind during self rescue. I am better at keeping the kite in the air so I rarely get to practice self rescue. My mate is much better at self rescue than me.

My board choice has changed over the years. Initially I used a 135x49cm TT with virtually no rocker. In later years I used an Airush Sector 60 freeride raceboard. I used these with 12-13m freeride kites.

Surfboards in general are crap for light wind. They have too much rocker. The rocker pushes too much water and makes the board slow. Newer directionals like the North Nugget and Airush Slayer are much better.

Now I ride a hydrofoil and 10m freeride kite. I intend to upgrade the foil soon to something higher performance and I am looking around for a kite to match. Something not too big but light weight to make it easy to keep it in the air and very easy relaunch.

The thing about light wind riding is not so much riding in light wind, which is magic. The real benefit is that you are prepared to go to the beach when it's 10-15 knots and have a real hope of being out riding on days when other people don't go to the beach. 9 times out of 10 those days push up to close to 20 knots are you end up having a monster session with nobody else around.

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bjw said..
These new no strut kites seem to tear it up in low wind.

Any truth in this?

Sure do ... I have a Cloud 17 and it is better than my 12m Chrono and 19m Edge.

I haven't done a side by side between the Cloud 17 and 18m Chrono.

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loftywinds2 said..

kitebt said..
For those on this forum who thinks it too macho to kite in lightwind then no need to respond.

For those of us who enjoy getting out on the water in light wind I thought I would start a post to poll what peoples favorite light wind combo of kite and board are for lightwind.

I am 110kg and my favorite combo is my 2014 Zephyr and Shinn King Gee 150x55 board. I can do most free ride tricks on this kite I can do on a smaller kite. I can get out in 12knots and kite with this Combo up to about 17 knots. At 14 knots I am pretty powered and can do pretty much anything I can on a smaller kite.

I also really enjoy my Zephyr and Airush Choptop 5'8" board when I feel like dumping the twin tip and cruising on a directional.

What's your favorite light wind combo?

Peter Lynn Synergy 19m, 20m lines and with 146cm homemade board (very little rocker). This is really a great setup and I can get going in 5 to 8 knots. I am overpowered in 12 - 15knots.

LOL... you guys red thumbed this surely because you're jealous, right!?

A 19m foil kite is amazing in light winds, on any type of board. You should try foil boarding before judging kooks.

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Loftywinds said..

Plummet said..
12m chrono.

5-15 knots kite buggy
10-18 knots landboard
10-18 knots 145x45 TT. If I switch from TT to mutant I can increase that top end to 22 knots.

Most fun in the light wind is 15 -16 knots on the landboard. some crazy ass glides with pillowy soft landings.

15-16knots is not considered light winds, more moderate than light.

it is to me. Anything sub 16 is light.

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bigtone667 said...

bjw said..
These new no strut kites seem to tear it up in low wind.

Any truth in this?

Sure do ... I have a Cloud 17 and it is better than my 12m Chrono and 19m Edge.

I haven't done a side by side between the Cloud 17 and 18m Chrono.

I would love to do a side by side with my chrono 18m and the Cloud 17... Always wanted to know how they would compare

Just had my first light wind session. Got to practice self rescue for the first time! Haha. Would have been fine if I had a board designed for light wind. Was beautiful out there, really got me wanting to get out there more often when the wind is light.

When is it too early to start foiling? Ive been kiting for 6 months now. Or maybe I should just purchase a massive TT. I do have a surfboard (OR duke). But I want to get out and be cruising upwind in 10 knots or less.

What path should I take? Invest in cloud and large TT? Start foilboarding? Or something else.

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Cygnify said..
Just had my first light wind session. Got to practice self rescue for the first time! Haha. Would have been fine if I had a board designed for light wind. Was beautiful out there, really got me wanting to get out there more often when the wind is light.

When is it too early to start foiling? Ive been kiting for 6 months now. Or maybe I should just purchase a massive TT. I do have a surfboard (OR duke). But I want to get out and be cruising upwind in 10 knots or less.

What path should I take? Invest in cloud and large TT? Start foilboarding? Or something else.

Its never too early to start learning to foilboard and I would suggest you ignore any nay sayers. Having said that light wind sessions require additional technique and a developed feel for the kite. Getting out there and giving it a crack is the only way you will probably accomplish this. Forget about 10knts and below... aim at 15knts, 13 at a push... whatever wind speed you can still easily relaunch at. If your up and going on your surfboard thats a start toward foilboarding however one of the most important things is being able to keep the kite up in the air marginal conditions. This might sound easy but if you cant relaunch and the kite comes down your in shtook, as yourecently found out.
I would say practicing more in marginal winds on your directional and discovering the does and donts of LW kiting would be a good start.

Good advice, thanks for that.

Spotz2 foil and a 7meter rebel.. Going before anyone

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Plummet said...
I think its also important to note that the board is way way more important than the kite!

Within reason plums,
You'll be more dynamic on a zephyr or dyno on a 135/41 in 13 knts
Than a 13 on a 145/43 in same winds,
You still that pull off the water

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Cygnify said...

What path should I take? Invest in cloud and large TT? Start foilboarding? Or something else.

Do the lot....

I use a foil board when I have a metre and a half of water. But often cannot find deep locations, so I use a super fat fish style board for one foot and deeper and/or a skimboard for super shallow conditions.

On Lakes I use a foil kite, in the surf a big arse Cloud.

IMHO, Super light wind is for foil boards and whatever kite will get you on top of it when you are launching.

My preference is a 17m Cloud and Foil-fish (slow foil).

Use whatever you can to get out.

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Plummet said..

CJ2478 said..
Here is a light wind idea I have been pondering:

- What is better for riding in as low wind as possible (assume equal sizes); a 5 strut, 'freeride', high-ish aspect ratio (such as switchblade, edge, rebel, etc), or a 3 struct surf kite (eg drifter, neo, reo, etc). Given that the surf kite should turn faster (can work the kite through the window faster to generate speed), stay afloat better through the lulls, BUT is less efficient as a wing because it isnt as rigid like the 5 struct will?

What do you think?

There is no question the high aspect kite will kick the low aspect kites arse in light wind. No question at all. None.

The higher the projected aspect ratio the better upwind performance. The better upwind performance the better light wind performance.

Then if you want next level light wind performance again you need to step into a high aspect foil. My 12m chrono has superior light wind performance than a 17m zephur!

but higher projected aspect ratio means just that.

you can have a high aspect ratio with less projected aspect then a low aspect kite. the peak 2 comes to mind or even the oldschool flat out like a lizard foils from yesteryear. to reiterate in my drunken stuper basicly if you had a super high aspect ratio insanely skinny kite but it was ALLLLLLL hanging down by the sides and the "projected" area was sweet **** all then a fatty flat kite should have more wind passing over her. hope i explained my nitpicking enuff tho irrelevant or maybe im wrong ?

oh and cj043093815098309 my semi...proof?! of this is the big ass flat 500sqm foils they use for towing ships and **** etc

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Cygnify said..
...
What path should I take? Invest in cloud and large TT? Start foilboarding? Or something else.

You could get a piece of 12mm ply, cut it into a roughly TT shape, whack some straps on it, and go kiting. That's what I did and it worked a treat.

Mine was 135x48cm. Don't go too long. It creates flex which creates too much rocker. Your weight will put the rocker in the board.

If you want to go mega cheap, just wax the hell out of it and go strapless.

The point of getting out in light wind is that skill makes a huge difference. Just dicking around on a board in light winds will develop those skills. The vast majority of kiters, and noobs in particular, have no idea about how to extract power from a kite.

10m switchblade with 6' vanguard, can go upwind in 12-13knots

Favourite light wind combo

KY+Kleenex+Pornhub

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Youngbreezy said..
Favourite light wind combo

KY+Kleenex+Pornhub

Your comment is the best this month!!

8m switchblade, double agent foil and I'm off upwind from 10-12 knots

15m foil kite on a hydrofoil board - bliss

15m Sonic and a SU2 Yeti . 8-18 knots . So much fun

saturday morning under the sheets after some curry the night bfore

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Kozzie said..

Plummet said..

CJ2478 said..
Here is a light wind idea I have been pondering:

- What is better for riding in as low wind as possible (assume equal sizes); a 5 strut, 'freeride', high-ish aspect ratio (such as switchblade, edge, rebel, etc), or a 3 struct surf kite (eg drifter, neo, reo, etc). Given that the surf kite should turn faster (can work the kite through the window faster to generate speed), stay afloat better through the lulls, BUT is less efficient as a wing because it isnt as rigid like the 5 struct will?

What do you think?

There is no question the high aspect kite will kick the low aspect kites arse in light wind. No question at all. None.

The higher the projected aspect ratio the better upwind performance. The better upwind performance the better light wind performance.

Then if you want next level light wind performance again you need to step into a high aspect foil. My 12m chrono has superior light wind performance than a 17m zephur!

but higher projected aspect ratio means just that.

you can have a high aspect ratio with less projected aspect then a low aspect kite. the peak 2 comes to mind or even the oldschool flat out like a lizard foils from yesteryear. to reiterate in my drunken stuper basicly if you had a super high aspect ratio insanely skinny kite but it was ALLLLLLL hanging down by the sides and the "projected" area was sweet **** all then a fatty flat kite should have more wind passing over her. hope i explained my nitpicking enuff tho irrelevant or maybe im wrong ?

oh and cj043093815098309 my semi...proof?! of this is the big ass flat 500sqm foils they use for towing ships and **** etc

Man you were on the piss weren't you?

That's what i was saying. you need high projected aspect ration. So a high aspect C kite will be worse than a high aspect sle. The high apsect sle won't be as good as the high aspect foil.

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cauncy said..

Plummet said...
I think its also important to note that the board is way way more important than the kite!

Within reason plums,
You'll be more dynamic on a zephyr or dyno on a 135/41 in 13 knts
Than a 13 on a 145/43 in same winds,
You still that pull off the water

In 13 knots i'll be on my 12m chrono and 145x45 coffin lid and i'll trounce you boring zep 135 combo. Then i'll jump on the landboard and proceed to jump high and further than anyone else on the water........ .. . . . . . . . . . .. . . . The zep 135 guy will be mowing and mowing,,,,,,, i'll be floating around the sky jumping boulders and generally grinning from ear to year. The zep guy will be like "well at least i got wet lets hope for 20 knots tomorrow!".

FWIW Yesterday we had 4 hydrofoils out riding for a couple of hours. We all got tired and came in with big grins on our faces. The most experienced foiler (on the highest performance foil) was doing jump tacks and the occasional boost. He also had twice the board speed of everybody else on fun foils.

The wind pushed up a bit and another foiler appeared along with a TT and a surfboard guy.

If the Speed3 21 will sit at the zenith, I can foil.

Zephyr 17m and 140 Widowmaker - good up to over 20 knots (I'm 75kgs). They have huge range, but being a 5 strut kite I find them a little challenging below about 14 knots.

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Plummet said...

cauncy said..

Plummet said...
I think its also important to note that the board is way way more important than the kite!

Within reason plums,
You'll be more dynamic on a zephyr or dyno on a 135/41 in 13 knts
Than a 13 on a 145/43 in same winds,
You still that pull off the water

In 13 knots i'll be on my 12m chrono and 145x45 coffin lid and i'll trounce you boring zep 135 combo. Then i'll jump on the landboard and proceed to jump high and further than anyone else on the water........ .. . . . . . . . . . .. . . . The zep 135 guy will be mowing and mowing,,,,,,, i'll be floating around the sky jumping boulders and generally grinning from ear to year. The zep guy will be like "well at least i got wet lets hope for 20 knots tomorrow!".

Photos or it'll never happen

Select to expand quote

cauncy said..

Plummet said...

cauncy said..

Plummet said...
I think its also important to note that the board is way way more important than the kite!

Within reason plums,
You'll be more dynamic on a zephyr or dyno on a 135/41 in 13 knts
Than a 13 on a 145/43 in same winds,
You still that pull off the water

In 13 knots i'll be on my 12m chrono and 145x45 coffin lid and i'll trounce you boring zep 135 combo. Then i'll jump on the landboard and proceed to jump high and further than anyone else on the water........ .. . . . . . . . . . .. . . . The zep 135 guy will be mowing and mowing,,,,,,, i'll be floating around the sky jumping boulders and generally grinning from ear to year. The zep guy will be like "well at least i got wet lets hope for 20 knots tomorrow!".

Photos or it'll never happen

Select to expand quote

Plummet said...

cauncy said..

Plummet said...

cauncy said..

Plummet said...
I think its also important to note that the board is way way more important than the kite!

Within reason plums,
You'll be more dynamic on a zephyr or dyno on a 135/41 in 13 knts
Than a 13 on a 145/43 in same winds,
You still that pull off the water

In 13 knots i'll be on my 12m chrono and 145x45 coffin lid and i'll trounce you boring zep 135 combo. Then i'll jump on the landboard and proceed to jump high and further than anyone else on the water........ .. . . . . . . . . . .. . . . The zep 135 guy will be mowing and mowing,,,,,,, i'll be floating around the sky jumping boulders and generally grinning from ear to year. The zep guy will be like "well at least i got wet lets hope for 20 knots tomorrow!".

Photos or it'll never happen

I'll stick with my zephyr combo then