Thinking back to kitestock i remember a comment from the chief judge / waksa organiser of the wave event stating that a wave kiting event would be on the cards for this winter.
It does seem logical as we will soon be into some nice cold fronts
great winds and way better swell than in summer, the majority of beach users have left the water meaning a location to hold the event would be easier to find.
Im sure we muster up some volenteers/ helpers/ sponsers to kick it off.
WHATTAYA SAY???

Yep I am in and my mate will also. I have limited spare time to organise (footy season), however am happy to help the best I can. The Kitestock wave event was allot of fun, no straps on my board since..! add two to the list

^^^ ditto, dead keen to participate if something comes together.

Happy to be on the beach doing whatever, just PM me.........cool.

Not able to participate but I'd help out where I can.

Lets go, sounds really fun, I'm in close outs and all......

The usual suspects will be there . . . .

great idea.
I'll come along and exhibit my lack of skill.

Yup lets go!

Is there going to be different heats for how your riding those waves? Straps / no straps / front strap only / twin tip /switch / backhand?

Or are we going to be able to work it out on who looks the best riding a wave no matter what style they choose to do it?

ive sent waksa a email and will wait for a reply, i cant see why we cant get something happening as we have support. the south aussies are all over it and have got a state titles dedicated to waves,
as per your local break, the best waveriders will stand out.

sounds like a bit of fun be good to have mobile one and have a few over winter in different spots and try to get both wind directions for lefts and rights. dont think it matters if your strapped or strapless, but should be judged accordingly. but i do think everyone should be on surfboards seen as though its a waveriding comp not a freestyle comp. my 2cents

Yeh I am with Ryland, a couple of the lads have done the Perry Hatchett Judges training and they may be good to help define some the surfing aspects to the judging criteria within a expresion session sort of format. What sort of setup do they have in SA does anyone know??

It's getting windy and swell.

I recon the people, including riders judge at the beach....the best riders will be the talk of the crowd.

I'm an open mind when it comes to what boards ...limiting to surf boards in not such a good idea IMO. Recon ride whatever you want....from Macca trays to Mals, let us all see what can be done and is the most fun.

If you have to ride a surfboard , and get extra points for strapless, would you get extra points for kiteless?
BTW isnt Perry Hatchett Judges training for surfing competitions?

Just confirmed ..........
As promised by expression session organisers at Kitestock there will be an official WA State Title Wave Comp this winter.
Keep a lookout for announcements in the near future.

And keep up the discussion of what should be coverd and how. All good feedback.

My personal opinion is anything goes.

There should not be any rules or regulations on how or what you ride. Everyone should have the chance to ride whatever they think works the best for them.

It should simply be judged by what people can do with a wave.

How can you say a turn gets more points becuase he was strapless or he was riding switch or he was on a skimbaord with no fins?

If the riding looks good, it should get points. If someone does something remarkable it should get more points.

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coreyb said...

There should not be any rules or regulations on how or what you ride.

If WAKSA is going to be running the Coldfront Classic ,
Please be aware of the following stipulations ...

# WAKSA will reward unstrapped riders and unhooked riders above all others.
# WAKSA will reward aerials performed on surfboards ONLY.
# Downwind riders have priority over upwind riders.

* Taken from WAKSA website. ^^^


Carry-on.

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waveslave said...
If WAKSA is going to be running the Coldfront Classic ,
Please be aware of the following stipulations ...

# WAKSA will reward unstrapped riders and unhooked riders above all others.
# WAKSA will reward aerials performed on surfboards ONLY.
# Downwind riders have priority over upwind riders.

* Taken from WAKSA website. ^^^

More total BS from the grand-master of mis quoting everything.
Read for yourself what the mish-mashed quotes really have to say ....
see ...
www.hugedomains.com/domain_profile.cfm?d=waksa&e=com

And besides presenting that useless, inaccurate, out of context info it should be noted that the comments made in said article refer specifically to some guidelines for a fun expression session. Nothing at all to do with what might become judging criteria for an official State Waves Title.

but (as advised) carry on (regardless of BS) ...
the criteria for judging Competitive Wave Kiting (even at official level) is still far from formalised anywhere. Debate is good.

My personal take is with Corey.
Do the best with the wave using whatever you choose on the day. I can see the validity of the 'degree of difficulty' theory but the 'all-is-equal' model removes all the argument about weighting advantages for different equipment & styles etc. That debate can never achieve agreement unless you break the comp into divisions eg the mens open unstrapped division etc
The only other argument free option is to have everyone out there on the same board, same kite, same size etc. Most would say its pretty stupid to argue for that option; I agree; but thats what happens in the sailing world so who knows where the debate will end ??

Taken from the ASP judging criteria I think this really pushes the progressive angle

Judges analyze the following major elements when scoring waves:

Commitment and Degree of Difficulty
Innovative and Progressive Manoeuvres
Combination of Major Manoeuvres
Variety of Manoeuvres
Speed, Power and Flow

Using these points encourages exciting and inovative riding that isnt repetitive and boring

IMO a good judge will be able to take these points into consideration and make a good judgement on a wave rode strapped or strapless

At the end of the day I dont believe you will ever have a format or judging criteria that pleases both camps they really are quite different animals and therefore in my opinion in the perfect world probably should be dealt with seperately

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coreyb said...



How can you say a turn gets more points becuase he was strapless

maybe because its harder

Good on you WAKSA for staying true to your word.
As for judging a good scoring ride , for example/ i reckon a stylish jesus walk with board under arm while being spat out of a growling tube should rate pretty high, who would give a f__k what board you were riding, strapped or not , buckled up or not it would look cool and blow minds.. the thing is that some ways of doing it may be easier or harder than others and should/will be judged accordingly.
patrick rebstock who won the mens open up at k/stock mmx was very inventive ( he was unstrapped and on a surfboad), we do have to be careful though and make sure the freestyle side of things do not overrule actual WAVEriding skills. after all that is the essence. Also the wave expression session in dongara had way too may competitors/entrants per heat and was very dangerous, have to look at cutting back the numbers per heat.
Take a bold move like the south aussies of dedicating a month or so to make sure the conditions are favourable.. you'll be back in the good books before you know it waksa.

Strapless is harder and more real to the surf style(in my opinion) normal turns are kinda the same but any fins out, aerials, slides, big late floaters should be judged with more difficulty strapless. I can see y some crew choose straps thats cool...but any guy can come onto a surfboard with straps and do powered waterski style turns with little experience skill or style. But at the same time I would be happy to against strapped guys on equal terms. Twintips in a wave comp is like boogie boarders in a surf comp..aint gonna happen.

Right of way should be the guy riding the swell in from furthest out that is the most upwind, regardless of whether he plans to go right or left. Guys in the break should give way to all incoming riders after they have had their wave. The Kitestock expresion session was a nightmare for this...to mant guys not understanding a system. Outside of these basics maybe there should be a expresion sess for twin tips, big airs etc etc but that shouldnt count towards wave kiting as surfing. Hmmm time for a beer.

Goodluck judging a comp with both... especially to ASP guidelines.
All you unstrapped riders might as well stay at home, it will be the strapped up crew doing backrolls and all sorts of stupid d!ck tricks on the wave that will take it out everytime.

I dont see any strapped riders that are better or standout from the unstrapped riders. Infact I think the best riders I have seen in Perth have been unstapped...some of my mates argued why strapps are so nessecary till they went strapless for a while, but admitedly they are surfers originally probably like most of the guys that are blowing up. I think straps are great to give guys confidense as they progress and get good at the surfing part and there is a few guys ripping with em actually pushing the boundaries of strapped riding...and yeh kiting margies at speed they are a smart option...but I dont surf with em so i dont kite with em.

Comps are about people showing off, otherwise it's not a comp.


As you are showing off in front of others, its the most people that are impressed that matters.

Therefore, who gives a flying f.... what you do, as long as the people love it, you will be the number 1 show off and win the prize.

Not my idea, but recon we have "wave comps" in all states and that the riders are videoed somehow....some hot shots even have their own personal preferred movie maker. The vids are then shown on this site and da people will tell you who is the biggest show off.

Let the games begin.

Hey Guys lets express a little more unity.

The windsurfers must be laughing if they are reading this. Sadly already the 'ugly heads', of the divisions within our sport, are threatening to rear up and sink the whole idea of a comp before it even gets off the ground.

I think the general consensus of opinion is that there strictly is no right and wrong way to ride, Carl Bevo has laid out what the simple principles of good surfing are [and have long been accepted to be] and it should be left at that.

No it is not a freestyle comp so manoeuvres not performed involving the face of the wave wouldnt count but there is always the possibility of a stylish entry or exit to the wave ride [grabbed 360 anyone] just as in surfing

As I have said before on this forum although guys are riding with different equipment and different styles it will still be obvious who the best riders are. The object is to let the best man win ........even if he is on a bow-kite and a twin tip unlikely as it may be.....we should open our minds to the possibilities.

As Johnno Keys said, in reference to a previous informal winter comp organised by John Geyer, probably the fairest way of judging the comp is peer review, i.e. all the guys not competing in that heat and standing on the beach give a vote to who they thought was best. No arguing with the democratic nature of that and it gets away from the danger of bias by a small group of judges with entrenched views.

Comps are good and bad. Bad because they reveal our pride and competitiveness. Good because they get past all the bulls--t, all the onanism of self-video-promotions, all the dull stench of inflated self opinions. Out on the water.......do your best.......bulls--t left on the beach.

Some of the 'pros' may feel there is a risk of their particular style and equipment choice not been 'understood' by the 'average Joe' but they do need to get over themselves. Lets vote for skill but not forget style and entertainment. Frankly if a guys equipment choice are severely limiting his inability to keep me entertained on the beach I am simply going to end up rapidly ignore him and have my attention and vote drawn elsewhere. There are no points for swimming through half the heat and then pulling the move of the day 200m down the beach, that is just the way comps are. The best rider on the day is not always the best rider.


Finally We shouldn't get too upset about the results, no one is doing this for a living or going to die if they lose or judging is a bit out of whack. This is supposed to be a fun sport lets keep it that way.

We all enjoy the one thing which surfing with kites..........simple as that....spread a little love .. ..if you want aggro stick to footie ......or rules and regulations take up yachting, they've got heaps. Look over 200 words and not one mention of straps now is that a record on these forums are what!

I have a mate who rides a skim board switch. He rides a two line kite with no harness. Lets just give him the prize now as he wins.

I understand you are passionate and thats great....I am not saying strapped riders are lesser humans infact i agree 100% percent with your post being strapped gives you a potential to go bigger. Sorry if my preference of riding isnt yours, however I dont think your abuse is nessecary and I am not hiding in an email I just wouldnt want read abusive crap in forum discussions as you say keep a balance.... usually if someone calls me **** like this its fighting words so if you are happy to live your actions cool otherwise take a different tack with this and discuss it.Lets do our talking out in the water. Really the sport is progressing, views and opinions will be different...

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JohnnoKeys said...

HeY in my P.O.V, if Ryland, ( sorry Ryland to use you as an example, but you got a great powerful off the top air unstrapped) his usual killer stylish, slash off the top into a strapless air and makes it, in a heat with me and I do SIMILAR move strapped, give it to the unstrapped boyz, every time, no question. Yeh way more skill unstrapped for same move.

But then, If I wanta compete strapped ...... I had better get my **** together and go hard,, real BIG, and do **** no unstrapped kite surfers can do, while surfing the wave, then give me a score as a result.

Always wave size, position, commitment, and style MUST be taken into account.

Sounds pretty simple to me.

The kite surfer killing on the day will take the title.

What a great comp, all takers turn up and have a go....

Johnny Geyer reckons in past, to split field in half ( depends on number of riders)and other half out of water judge and vote best 50% of riders and advance, keep going until 4 person final. Splitting comps will kill the sport.

P.S. Never underestimate your surf craft, Kelly Slater at Pipe this year on a 5ft-8 4xfin quad, in heats during comp from 3ft to 8ft. insane. He came second.

P.P.S AndreC . you are a dick with your head stuffed up your own arse. Have a great day...

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niall barrett said...

Hey Guys lets express a little more unity.

Now that we've all had our group-hug ...
Let's be brutally honest here.
Niall thinks kiting no-straps is dumb.
He thinks it sucks, and you have to wear a leggie, and the riders all look like they have a stick up their arse.
lol.
There, somebody had to say it.
So, when it comes down to holding a wavekiting comp ...
There are two major camps.
Strapped and unstrapped.
Forget about all the other freakin variables.
We know the sport is all-over-the-shop.
It's a total cluster-f#ck.
But when it's all boiled down ...
It's about straps only,,
or it's about wax only.
Choose your weapon.
And forget about peer review deciding a result.
Your peers standing on the beach critique-ing you are fundamentally split on opinion (about straps/no-straps) from the start of the hooter.
So there's only one solution to this dilemma.
ie, two comps on different days.
A strap comp and a wax comp.
Hey, that could be a fun love-in.

I guess it all depends on whether you wanna run a circus, or a progressive competition...
We all know what's progressive, I'm guessing most people know by know that anything in straps is about 100 times easier than unstrapped and probably takes you about 3 try's to learn. It's easy to establish unstrapped is the future of kitesurfing even though so many people will deny it.
In the end I guess you need to establish just what sort of comp it is. If it is serious with serious judging you need to be scoring it correctly. No ASP surfer would ever win a comp if he came out and surfed it with straps on his board, pretty much no matter what he did.
So if it is just for fun and not really serious I think it doesn't really matter what you ride or how you judge the main goal is that everyone is having a good time and a bit of a get together, but if it's a serious competition for a state title (or something) you need to be allocating credit and points where credit is due.

Obviously I'm not saying reward old mate just because he has no straps, but I am saying if old mate is blowing up, doing a couple of sick critical turns and trying some sick airs, obviously you gotta give it to him over the strapped up guys doing the same turns + some backrolls or whatever on the wave. If you want progression it's what has got to be done.

p.s. I know myself it took me 1 session to learn air reverses in straps and I still can only just make straight airs unstrapped... shows you how much difference in difficulty is involved.