So I was packing away my gear today and found that I have a very tight knot on one of my centre lines. I haven't noticed it before so I'm guessing that it either happened somehow today, or it has been there a while and I haven't realised because it hasn't affected the way the kite flys. I had a quick pick at it with a couple of fishing hooks but it is well and truly tight as...

Question is therefore - do I leave the knot as is cause it hasn't made a difference to the flight of the kite but risk it compromising the strength and integrity of the line, or, do I unpick it, and potentially risk fraying the line which again might compromise the integrity of the line.

Any suggestions would be welcome.

Cheers.

Put it on a smooth surface and gently hit it with a hammer.
Turn it over and hit it again.
It will loosen it up enough to undo it.
It works for me.
You need to get it out.

Spit on it, lay it on a solid surface, gently tap at it with something solid and smooth like the side of a glass bottle, or a new hammer etc. Eventually it'll work loose then undo it. Stop poking fish hooks into it.

Like happy gilmore "tappa tappa tappa"

Knots weaken your lines

This is where you need to act like a porn star and suck slowly, for an unreasonable amount of time, then poke it till it comes out.

Be gentle and patient, seriously, use a very thing pin.

It's done for, tie it off a few more times and use it as an anal bead.

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DEECEE said..
So I was packing away my gear today and found that I have a very tight knot on one of my centre lines. I haven't noticed it before so I'm guessing that it either happened somehow today, or it has been there a while and I haven't realised because it hasn't affected the way the kite flys. I had a quick pick at it with a couple of fishing hooks but it is well and truly tight as...

Question is therefore - do I leave the knot as is cause it hasn't made a difference to the flight of the kite but risk it compromising the strength and integrity of the line, or, do I unpick it, and potentially risk fraying the line which again might compromise the integrity of the line.

Any suggestions would be welcome.

Cheers.

that knot has made your center line 50% weaker.

you must get rid of it.

try bashing it while its soaked and even in water and i mean BASHING it with the back end of a spoon or ladle. some solid heavey ass steel spoon. not a tea spoon. this should loosen all the fibers. then when they are nice and tenderised just like muscle and meat slowly try to pull them apart with your teeth or whatever you got in that maw of yours.

this will work.

give it a good 5 minutes of hitting the ****ing thing with the backend of the spoon. idea is no edges so it cant cut/damage it.

Great ideas guys. I have exactly the same problem. Helped me a lot. Cheers. Mozzie

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Kozzie said..

DEECEE said..
So I was packing away my gear today and found that I have a very tight knot on one of my centre lines. I haven't noticed it before so I'm guessing that it either happened somehow today, or it has been there a while and I haven't realised because it hasn't affected the way the kite flys. I had a quick pick at it with a couple of fishing hooks but it is well and truly tight as...

Question is therefore - do I leave the knot as is cause it hasn't made a difference to the flight of the kite but risk it compromising the strength and integrity of the line, or, do I unpick it, and potentially risk fraying the line which again might compromise the integrity of the line.

Any suggestions would be welcome.

Cheers.

that knot has made your center line 50% weaker.

you must get rid of it.

try bashing it while its soaked and even in water and i mean BASHING it with the back end of a spoon or ladle. some solid heavey ass steel spoon. not a tea spoon. this should loosen all the fibers. then when they are nice and tenderised just like muscle and meat slowly try to pull them apart with your teeth or whatever you got in that maw of yours.

this will work.

give it a good 5 minutes of hitting the ****ing thing with the backend of the spoon. idea is no edges so it cant cut/damage it.

Please avoid bashing it. It may have worked with a spoon but if the knot is extremely tight and you bash it with anything heavier (like a small hammer) you will break or damage the line.

Best thing it to soak or chew on the knot beforehand, then like the others have said, find a nice smooth solid surface and gently tap the knot with a hammer, once the knot has flattened a little, turn the knot on it's now thin side and repeat. Do this until you can pick the knot apart with your fingers.

Thanks for all the tips guys.

I'll give the chew and tap idea a go tonight when I get home and see how it goes.

Stay tuned

Just so you know, the purpose of the tapping is to compress the fibres to get some space to loosen the knot. The sucking and detergent and all that lubricate the fibres so they will slide a bit.

A technique that I use is to line up the part of the loop where it crosses the main line and hook my lower teeth on the edge of the loop, and my top teeth on the main line. That lets the chewing action push the loop up the main line to loosen it, and the main line down through the loop. It's all very gentle. No more force than nibbling a hang nail or something. You move the loop and the main line around and lever the edges of the loop with your teeth and all comes apart.

Never, ever use hard metal tools or spikes. You will tear the fibres and damage the line.

With the exception of ultra-thin lines (<1mm) there is no such thing as a knot that cannot be undone, It might just take a bit more time than you are prepared to spend. There is also no such thing as a tangle that cannot be untangled.

Just so you know, the purpose of the tapping is to compress the fibres to get some space to loosen the knot. The sucking and detergent and all that lubricate the fibres so they will slide a bit.

A technique that I use is to line up the part of the loop where it crosses the main line and hook my lower teeth on the edge of the loop, and my top teeth on the main line. That let the chewing action push the loop up the main line to loosen it. It's all very gentle. You move the loop and the main line around and lever the edges of the loop with your teeth and all comes apart.

Never, ever use hard metal tools or spikes. You will tear the fibres and damage the line.

With the exception of ultra-thin lines (<1mm) there is no such thing as a knot that cannot be undone, It might just take a bit more time than you are prepared to spend. There is also no such thing as a tangle that cannot be untangled.

Thanks to everyone for your tips and tricks to fix my little problem. After much consideration I opted for the gentle spit and chew option and it work a treat.

Probably took about 5-6 minutes of gently running it through my front teeth, just slowly picking at it, and after a while it kind of swelled up enough to form a bit of a gap in the knot. A quick little jiggle and push with my fingers and it worked its way out with no damage.

Thanks again for all your suggestions.

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KPSS Used said...

Kozzie said..

DEECEE said..
So I was packing away my gear today and found that I have a very tight knot on one of my centre lines. I haven't noticed it before so I'm guessing that it either happened somehow today, or it has been there a while and I haven't realised because it hasn't affected the way the kite flys. I had a quick pick at it with a couple of fishing hooks but it is well and truly tight as...

Question is therefore - do I leave the knot as is cause it hasn't made a difference to the flight of the kite but risk it compromising the strength and integrity of the line, or, do I unpick it, and potentially risk fraying the line which again might compromise the integrity of the line.

Any suggestions would be welcome.

Cheers.

that knot has made your center line 50% weaker.

you must get rid of it.

try bashing it while its soaked and even in water and i mean BASHING it with the back end of a spoon or ladle. some solid heavey ass steel spoon. not a tea spoon. this should loosen all the fibers. then when they are nice and tenderised just like muscle and meat slowly try to pull them apart with your teeth or whatever you got in that maw of yours.

this will work.

give it a good 5 minutes of hitting the ****ing thing with the backend of the spoon. idea is no edges so it cant cut/damage it.

Please avoid bashing it. It may have worked with a spoon but if the knot is extremely tight and you bash it with anything heavier (like a small hammer) you will break or damage the line.

Best thing it to soak or chew on the knot beforehand, then like the others have said, find a nice smooth solid surface and gently tap the knot with a hammer, once the knot has flattened a little, turn the knot on it's now thin side and repeat. Do this until you can pick the knot apart with your fingers.

Who the **** uses a ****ing estwing?!?! You need to use a god damn spoon.

I just tie knots in all my other lines so that the lengths stay the same

I thought about balancing the lines by putting a knot in the other one, but assumed that a knot would weaken the line. Wouldn't this be the case?

The conventional wisdom is that knot weakens the line by 40%. Testing on paraglider lines supports this. The line never breaks at the knot, it tens to break 2-3 cm away from the knot. The implication is that the knot doesn't weaken the knot by crimping the fibres. It seems more that the fibres slide against each other and the knot restricts that.

A simple Google search found these

everything2.com:443/title/How+knots+weaken+rope

davidschmidtwriting.com/busted.htm

www.bethandevans.com/pdf/8_strength.pdf

Consensus - Yes, knots weaken a rope.

Good posts guys. I also had a knot in my line. Did the chewing method with a bit of hammering with a spoon as well. Worked well and now my lines are knot free.

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KIT33R said..
A simple Google search found these

everything2.com:443/title/How+knots+weaken+rope

davidschmidtwriting.com/busted.htm

www.bethandevans.com/pdf/8_strength.pdf

Consensus - Yes, knots weaken a rope.

I agree, but one knot on relatively new (less than 4 years) lines, is ok by me. They still hold at least 150kg psi

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loftywinds2 said..
one knot on relatively new (less than 4 years) lines, is ok by me. They still hold at least 150kg psi

Especially if you only mow the lawn.

One knot or ten, same strength loss, the line is significantly degraded.
Easier to get it out now than later.

What the hell is a kg psi?

Gordo, can you supply a link or something in regards to the lines breaking anywhere other than the knot?
The only time I have heard of this is with really old seriously UV degraded rope.

It sounds unusual and I would like to find out more.

I read somewhere too that knot makes line at least 40% less strong in that spot.
Like others said, porn chewing solved it. 5-6 mins.

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Absolutbeginer said..
One knot or ten, same strength loss, the line is significantly degraded.
Easier to get it out now than later.

What the hell is a kg psi?

Kg psi = 3 cubic fortnights.

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loftywinds2 said..

KIT33R said..
A simple Google search found these

everything2.com:443/title/How+knots+weaken+rope

davidschmidtwriting.com/busted.htm

www.bethandevans.com/pdf/8_strength.pdf

Consensus - Yes, knots weaken a rope.

I agree, but one knot on relatively new (less than 4 years) lines, is ok by me. They still hold at least 150kg psi

That is absolutely terrible advice.

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SibboV1 said..

loftywinds2 said..
one knot on relatively new (less than 4 years) lines, is ok by me. They still hold at least 150kg psi

Especially if you only mow the lawn.

That's good enough for most kiters

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KPSS Used said..

loftywinds2 said..

KIT33R said..
A simple Google search found these

everything2.com:443/title/How+knots+weaken+rope

davidschmidtwriting.com/busted.htm

www.bethandevans.com/pdf/8_strength.pdf

Consensus - Yes, knots weaken a rope.

I agree, but one knot on relatively new (less than 4 years) lines, is ok by me. They still hold at least 150kg psi

That is absolutely terrible advice.

And you suggest? Oh let me guess... come into our store and get brand new lines. Safe as houses!

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loftywinds2 said..

KPSS Used said..

loftywinds2 said..

KIT33R said..
A simple Google search found these

everything2.com:443/title/How+knots+weaken+rope

davidschmidtwriting.com/busted.htm

www.bethandevans.com/pdf/8_strength.pdf

Consensus - Yes, knots weaken a rope.

I agree, but one knot on relatively new (less than 4 years) lines, is ok by me. They still hold at least 150kg psi

That is absolutely terrible advice.

And you suggest? Oh let me guess... come into our store and get brand new lines. Safe as houses!

Take knots out of lines STRAIGHT AWAY.

Replace lines when worn, we see some people going through a lineset in a season. 4 years is far from "relatively new".

Most certainly safer than "don't worry about knots in your lines as long as they are less than 4 years old"

The strength is reduced, it depends on the thickness of rope and the type of knot however it will still be a considerable amount.

Knots in flying lines reduces their strength considerably and they should be removed carefully as soon as they are found. Plenty of data to back this up through testIng. It's why the manufacturers use specific knots that minimize the loss of strength in the design of lines.

Wow. I never thought that my simple little question would generate such a response - especially after the problem was fixed.

Great posts though everyone I got a lot more info and interesting reading than I had expected.

Interesting point from mark50 about manufacturers only using specific knots in their line setups. Obviously there has to be knots used in lines, e.g. At the end, and along pigtail lines. I would imagine that there may have been some other variations possibly with different knots in earlier model kites as well so manufactures must have done the appropriate research into this to make sure their products are safe.

Based on what everyone has said its obvious that unnecessary knots have to come out but if it happens that you overlook one, it won't necessarily cause a disaster until possibly leaving it unchecked after a fair bit of use.

Moral to the story therefore: check your lines regularly!!!