I am starting to go upwind and am experimenting with:
- how far to angle my board upwind,
- where to balance my weight,
- leg bending and pressure on different feet,
- kite position (high,low),
- body position,
- etc...

Can any experienced kiters give some tips that helped them master going upwind regarding these points.

* I know bigger boards are helpful so need to discuss this point

Cheers

* Try and rotate your hips in the direction you're going. IE. If you're going left, twist your hips left. The flow on effect from this is it makes you point the board further upwind.

* You need enough power to go upwind. If you're underpowered, you might not get there.

* If you've got plenty of power, keep your kite low. This will help you edge harder than if your kite is up high.

* Bigger boards might help in lighter winds, but if you're powered up it can work against you. You get to a point where you have too much kite power to be able to successfully edge the bigger board.

* Apply pressure to your back foot to control your speed. IE. If you're speeding up too much and going downwind, push harder with your back foot to drive upwind and reduce your speed. Keeping your kite low also helps with this.

* Practice practice practice There's no substitute for time on the water. You'll eventually get the 'feel' for it.

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* If you've got plenty of power, keep your kite low. This will help you edge harder than if your kite is up high.

If you have plenty power wont keeping you kite low generate too much power and pull you downwind?

How far do you lean back your whole body against the kite? Does leaning back further help you go upwind? Or is it better to be more upright?

Thanks very much Mr Bonk

Hi Maverick,

I'm pretty new to kitesurfing like yourself, and so far i figured that the strength of the wind makes big difference. The stronger and more consistent the wind, the easier to go upwind. I don't think you really keep your kite low and fully downwind. Because you are going in upwind direction, your kite will be more like on a 45% (or more) angle from the downwind position, hence it shouldn't have too much power to pull you downwind. So essentially, even though the kite is low, it's really moving upwind. I'm not sure if i'm explaining this technically correct, but i'm just trying to convey what i've experienced on my last session. And keeping it low definitelly helped. Also, how much back you lean with your body depends on the wind strength. On medium winds (like on monday for example), i found that i was leaning about 30-45% from the vertical body position, but the key was in my feet angling the board when going upwind.

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Maverick2 said...

If you have plenty power wont keeping you kite low generate too much power and pull you downwind?

How far do you lean back your whole body against the kite? Does leaning back further help you go upwind? Or is it better to be more upright?

Thanks very much Mr Bonk

Going upwind is a product of kite power and board edging/direction. To put it into smaller steps:
- The stronger the wind, the harder you can edge (to a point).
- The harder you edge, the more your kite will fly forward in the window.
- The further forward your kite flies, the better you'll go upwind (to a point).

In order to edge hard, your kite needs to be low enough to not pull you upwards and off your edge. It doesn't have to be right down at water level, but simply low enough to allow you to set a solid edge against the power.

Of course, all of these things are about balance. Edge too hard and your kite will fly too far forward and not generate enough power to maintain your speed.

Body position is going to depend on how much power you're holding down. You should aim to keep your hips forward, so the tendency to be pulled forward over your board is reduced. It will also help you to edge harder when necessary. Again, it's all about balance.

Hey Mate,

All valid points mentioned. There are a few other things that could help you progress a bit faster. It's all in the hips, keep a nice straight back and don't lean forward (poo stance). Take your forward hand off the bar and move your shoulders facing forward in the direction you going. Depends what kite you fly, if it's a bow/SLE, in enough wind instead of powering up and edging harder, depower your kite a little and this will move the kite to the edge of the window, thus pulling in a more favourable angle and you can manage under a lower speed. Not too much though. Try and keep your kite at a 45 degree angle and before you know it you will wonder why you ever asked this question.

Let us know how it goes.

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mrbonk said...

* Try and rotate your hips in the direction you're going. IE. If you're going left, twist your hips left. The flow on effect from this is it makes you point the board further upwind.

* You need enough power to go upwind. If you're underpowered, you might not get there.

* If you've got plenty of power, keep your kite low. This will help you edge harder than if your kite is up high.

* Bigger boards might help in lighter winds, but if you're powered up it can work against you. You get to a point where you have too much kite power to be able to successfully edge the bigger board.

* Apply pressure to your back foot to control your speed. IE. If you're speeding up too much and going downwind, push harder with your back foot to drive upwind and reduce your speed. Keeping your kite low also helps with this.

* Practice practice practice There's no substitute for time on the water. You'll eventually get the 'feel' for it.

Totally agree but one key point missing:

Release your front hand from the bar, means are you going in direction of your left arm, release it from the bar and fly the kite only with the right hand. You need to grab very close to the centre whole with your right hand in order to keep the kite in best case at 10.30. This will bring you easily upwind because it helps you to edge even more. Just try it and you will see how the board will point upwind.

And some minor additions:

As mentioned twist your hip towards your upwind direction. while doing that try to look at the point upwind of you, you think you could reach or want to reach. Keep on looking to this point... it will help you as well going upwind.

Kite position between 10-11. not too high and not too low!

Front leg straight!!!! Do not bend your front leg and bring about 70-80 percent of your weight to your back leg. Bend it!

Hope you will go upwind next time ;)

Cheers

granini

Don't think I qualify as an "experienced kiter" yet, but its a good topic to cover at the start of the season, because once you can go upwind then the real riding starts, and you'll need this skill in order to regain ground after waveriding, jumps, crashes, etc.

IMHO, there are no hard and fast rules for going upwind , as the technique changes depending on how powered you are.

The way I get upwind at the lower end of my kites wind range is different to how I get upwind in the mid range, and different again from going upwind at the top end of the range. (75kg 135x40 tt, Cab SB2 8m and SB3 12m)

Low end (eg. 13-15kn on a 12m): get heaps of speed on a reach, have the kite at about 45 degrees, put some pressure on the front foot to get max rail-length in the water, and then very slowly increase your upwind angle just a little bit without dropping speed. Keep the kite somewhat sheeted out to keep it forward in the window and flying fast. Trick here is to go upwind at a shallow angle but fast.

Mid-range (15-20kn on a 12m) - get lots of speed, edge hard, lots of back foot pressure, get the kite down below 45 degrees and power it up and then search for your best angle while keeping speed high. Use your knees like shock absorbers to keep the rail in contact with the water. As others have said, rotate your hips, let go with 1 hand if you like, etc.

Top end (20-25kn on a 12m): as for the mid range technique except the speed is kept lower, and the kite is kept higher, both in order to manage power so that you don't get too much speed. When really maxxed out you'll find that you can go upwind quite well at a pretty slow speed with the kite quite high. From a safety point of view though, if you have a smaller kite then better off changing down.

Andy

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granini said...

Release your front hand from the bar, means are you going in direction of your left arm, release it from the bar and fly the kite only with the right hand.

Yep, that's another good one. Can depend a lot on the kite you're flying though. If you're having to haul on the bar for power a lot, or you have a kite with high bar pressure, you may not be able to pull enough power on one handed while keeping your kite parked.

might have been said but dont over sheet your kite, it falls too far back in the window other wise.

i reckon that is wrong advice from granini. i would advise that you don't lock your front leg straight, keep it a little bit bent or you will blow your knee out as soon as you hit any chop

you go where you look. map out ur desired upwind path in ur head and you will track it.

lets get real tho. dont look strait into the wind cos thats not gonna work. its to do with head positioning which aligns the whole body for a good upwind position.

another newbie here, just wondering what sheeting means?

Pull the bar in - Sheeting in

Push the bar away - Sheeting out

cheers manic

No worries mate, its actually a better term than 'power' and 'de-power', because the power generated by the kite is also in relation to the kite speed so you can slash it around fully de-powered and get more power than if the kite is stationary then you pull the bar in..... Does that make any sense... Dunno

ride a wakeboard

Listen to Kenta Nakama, hes spot on.

if you have too much power you will just get dragged downwind try de-powering the kite if poseble

Thanks guys for all your input - certainly is invaluable to me and potentially other starters who are at getting to the upwind stage.

Another question: I find that often there seems to be too much power and I dragged downwind. When this happens is it best to just raise the kite to 12 and wait till finished being dragged downwind OR is best to dig your back heel in to stop being dragged downwind?

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Maverick2 said...

Another question: I find that often there seems to be too much power and I dragged downwind. When this happens is it best to just raise the kite to 12 and wait till finished being dragged downwind OR is best to dig your back heel in to stop being dragged downwind?

If you feel confident enough, you can drop the kite down low before you build up too much speed, lean back nice and straight and dig in hard with your heels. The lower the kite is, the more pressure you can apply to the board.

Of course, like everything else, there's a limit to how far you can go with that. If you're so overpowered that you can't hold your ground even with the kite down low, you need to go to a smaller kite/board.

Swinging the kite up high when you're getting overpowered will make you lose quite a lot of ground, so if you're going to do it, make sure you've got the room! You can always try the 'butt brake' method too....I see that one being used quite a lot

Guys I am now getting upwind - tips have helped a lot!

Another question: when riding in choppy questions I seem to not be able to go upwind as well when riding in direction away from beach (against/over the chop) compared to when I am riding towards beach where I seem to be able to go much more upwind.
Is this because of the small loft from the chop causing me to lose ground when travelling against the chop; and do others experience the same thing?

Don't forget about the currents. If you are more powered up and going up wind more one direction than the other, it is generally because you are travelling out against the current, and returning to the beach riding with the current, or other way round. When you are riding against the current you will be more powered up than the other way. When you are travelling with the currents depending how strong they are you can knock off a few knots off your speed and power, therefore you will lose ground. Also you were right about the chop, everytime your board breaks an edge you will lose ground.

Don't over-work your kite - every time you bring your kite high it's dragging you downwind ie dive your kite aggressively at the edge of the window and lock it off as early as possible.

Cheat by using a foil to drag you upwind

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Maverick2 said...

Guys I am now getting upwind - tips have helped a lot!

Another question: when riding in choppy questions I seem to not be able to go upwind as well when riding in direction away from beach (against/over the chop) compared to when I am riding towards beach where I seem to be able to go much more upwind.
Is this because of the small loft from the chop causing me to lose ground when travelling against the chop; and do others experience the same thing?

Choppy water can make it more difficult to hold a good edge. There are a couple of things you can do though.
- Keep your kite low, to avoid being lifted into small jumps as you hit the chop.
- Use your knees to absorb the chop as you hit it.

Of course, chop/waves can be a great way to start learning how to jump too. Just do the opposite of the above tips and you'll get small jumps as you use the chop/wave as a ramp.

type upwind into search ull find a million tips on how to do it

Who cares.

practice..practice..practice..practice..practice..

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stamp said...

i reckon that is wrong advice from granini. i would advise that you don't lock your front leg straight, keep it a little bit bent or you will blow your knee out as soon as you hit any chop

When learning how to go upwind the stiff leg method works surprisingly well. That, combined with the 'rotate your shoulders' and 'point your di(k where you want to go' was what got me going upwind in a very short amount of time. It's just once you've started going upwind you need to modify your technique so you don't destroy your knee exactly as Stamp said.

Going upwind on a wind powered craft without a rudder is all about centre of effort and centre of resistance. The centre of effort is provided by the traction of the kite (ie direction of pull). The centre of resistance is the lateral resistance in the water of the kiteboard (ie edge and fins). To go upwind, the centre of effort should be slightly towards the back of the board, and the centre of resistance slightly towards the front of the board. Reverse the relationship to go downwind.

Kite low and forward in the window - optimally you may achieve a direction of effort 45 degrees off the wind direction. The board should be constantly planing and edging hard. Remember that anytime you are not powered and planing you are going downwind. Head, shoulders and hips face the desired course. Try holding the bar a couple of inches slightly towards the back of the board. Heavy chop complicates the issue. Legs should be used like shock absorbers. On the face of the chop let the board come up, then push down in the trough to accelerate (otherwise you will do small downwind hops). Definitely do not lock your front leg (unless your health insurance policy includes knee replacements!) Especially important if you have dodgy knees. Keep your quads strong and squat through the chop.

The pressure on the front foot/back foot requires dynamic adjustment unless the water is buttery smooth - only time spent on the water will give you the feel for this.

You will always go harder upwind on one tack than the other cos of:-
Direction of chop/waves
Direction of ocean currents
Your dominant side (left foot forward for me) - the ability to smoothly hold the edge.

Put effort into learning fast efficient transitions also - sloppy changes of direction can sacrifice all of the ground you made on the upwind beat.

With modern equipment (ie bow/sigma kites and wood cored boards) going upwind is simple if the wind is strong enough.

Lots of beans or lentils usually help me get up wind