Looking at getting a new board and I've seen a few people at my local using FireWire boards, But I have not seen anyone use a vanguard or a Vader.

Interested in getting a Vader maybe but the shape is kind of putting me off. Can anyone shed some light on how they compaire to the more traditional shape?

Also how do FireWire boards hold up after a few months of kiteing?

I'm riding an Evo copy I made. My opinion is that it's mostly the shorter length, bottom shape and fin placement that is defining the ride. I felt the aggressive corners of the Vanguard / Vader would catch in chop, people who ride them say no.
Anyway the Evo shape is working for me.

I rode a Vanguard copy in NZ... what an eye-opener.

IM uneducated O, if you're actually surfing waves without the kite, and know how surfing actually feels, and care about the difference... then get a traditional-shaped surfboard.

The Tomo boards (and their clones, I assume) with the Modern Planing Hull are better for kiting; the straighter rails and flatter rocker go upwind better, there's more surface area in the tail for gliding around turns off the waves, channels make the ride smoother, and you can ride a smaller board.

I've read the kite-specific build is tough...

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Kamikuza said..
I rode a Vanguard copy in NZ... what an eye-opener.

IM uneducated O, if you're actually surfing waves without the kite, and know how surfing actually feels, and care about the difference... then get a traditional-shaped surfboard.

The Tomo boards (and their clones, I assume) with the Modern Planing Hull are better for kiting; the straighter rails and flatter rocker go upwind better, there's more surface area in the tail for gliding around turns off the waves, channels make the ride smoother, and you can ride a smaller board.

I've read the kite-specific build is tough...

+1 Much better upwind. The kite construction is very tough. I've seen copies from shapers and from other brands and they lack a few subtle nuances that help the square nose not catch and the board plane so quickly.

A mate of mine has been a great surfer since he was a young and rides for FW and claims they are absolutely the best by far for kiting. For surfing he reckons it's one of the best backhand boards you could have. For forehand he prefers a traditional shape. The difference for me is day and night. If you're ever in Sydney let me know and I'll give you a go on my 5'5" Vader. Best boards on the market IMHO.

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Drury said..

Kamikuza said..
I rode a Vanguard copy in NZ... what an eye-opener.

IM uneducated O, if you're actually surfing waves without the kite, and know how surfing actually feels, and care about the difference... then get a traditional-shaped surfboard.

The Tomo boards (and their clones, I assume) with the Modern Planing Hull are better for kiting; the straighter rails and flatter rocker go upwind better, there's more surface area in the tail for gliding around turns off the waves, channels make the ride smoother, and you can ride a smaller board.

I've read the kite-specific build is tough...

+1 Much better upwind. The kite construction is very tough. I've seen copies from shapers and from other brands and they lack a few subtle nuances that help the square nose not catch and the board plane so quickly.

A mate of mine has been a great surfer since he was a young and rides for FW and claims they are absolutely the best by far for kiting. For surfing he reckons it's one of the best backhand boards you could have. For forehand he prefers a traditional shape. The difference for me is day and night. If you're ever in Sydney let me know and I'll give you a go on my 5'5" Vader. Best boards on the market IMHO.

Does the kite construction version weigh a lot? Also how do you choose a size, I was thinking a 5'2? I'm currently on a 5'8" board with not much volume and I'm 85kgs.

I have a 5'2" Vanguard kite construction. It's very light, I've not seen a standard construction so have no idea how much difference it is, but mine is quite a bit lighter than my light wind TT.

I'm currently 88kg and thinking that the 5'2" might be a little small, but I'm still getting the hang of directionals in general (I purchased this one 2nd hand and have not kited with a surfboard before, except for one hour trying a mates 6"). Definitely need to keep moving, and it is really only an issue in lighter wind when a standard TT would have long stopped and sunk - but again, practice might fix the opinion for me. it has given me the push to loose the final kgs to get back to my preferred weight

Pretty sure the Vanguard has less overall rocker than the Vader so you should be able to run a smaller vanguard.

There is no 5'2 Vader kite only 5'1 and 5'3. So for you the 5'3 might work. I have the 5'5 as I paddle it as well. One board for travel is sick!

Surf nazis have red thumbs, I see.

Felix is vocal on the kiteforum, and reckons they're tough enough. There are two informative threads (that stay on topic... mostly) on both the Vanguard and the Vader. I seem to remember some people saying the Vader is better for somethings, the Vanguard for others.

I was using a 5' 10" Dialer before it died, then had the Vanguard clone and a 5' 6" Spud at the same time. The VG went upwind and round corners better than both of the others, and I noticed no lack of bottom end. It just got up and planed so quickly without the slog of the surfboard shapes. Being "thinner" at the front foot though, the Spud especially (Drop Deck Tech) was easier to dance around on.

If I was getting a custom board, I think I'd want longer and wider with a drop deck and less volume... apparently volume becomes an issue as you can't sink the rail. Lots if the hundy-plus guys ride a 5' 6" and surf it too.

vader is insane! my pick between the vanguard and the vader would be the vader. vanguard is probably a faster board but the vader is better for turns and still super fast but just with slightly more rocker so better in bowly sections! both boards fit super tight in the pocket in 1ft surf and are sweet in bigger stuff too. thing i like most about them is how they handle strong winds- thing vader holds so much speed and power in strong winds its like its on rails and then will turn on a dime!!!!. id say nearly unbreakable in the kite construction and great board for 95% of most peoples riding- sweet all rounder!!! you can go a lot smaller too than you think. i have the vader kite version in 5'5 and 5'3 but i could nearly just go 5'3 as a single quiver board and thats it ( I'm 95kg) check them out at all good kite stores.
WA crew- i know KSS in Scarborough had a few last time i was there, worth a demo!

Everyone is talking about this board being the best in the business. Especially Felix (who is always good advice).

My question is whether it's not too much of an extreme board to start with as a first strapless board (VG or VD). Then of course it's not a cheap board...

No, I just sold a VG 5'6" to a raw strapless beginner and he is improving very fast on it. The VG is definitely more stable as the outline isn't as extreme and the rocker is flatter. If you're an average kiter then go the VG.

I'm steering towards the Vader :) 70kg, high intermediate surfer/kiter, looking for one board to paddle/kite surf. Any tips on Vader size, bearing in mind that I will be paddle surfing it too? Cheers