Ok, this is an attempt at some grown up thread about a product (that strutless kite) that is interesting to me, primarily because:

- it's 3.5 kgs and can be packed hyper small, great for travelling.
- it's briddle connectors are sliders not pulleys and come with adaptators to fit any bar.
- it's 1150$ including postage and that is cheaper than the entire competition for a new kite without bar...

I would like to know if someone owns one of those or demoed it?

Cheers.

Opinions on the matter are great and all but this thread is not to be confused for the other one that ended up in a brawl...

Ok this is my attempt at a grown up post to help convince you to buy a real kite:

-Although a strutless kite weighs 3.5kgs, a normal one weighs only 4-5kgs... so why is it you need to save such a nonsensical amount of weight? most airlines let you carry 23kgs.
-Any good kite these days comes without pulleys and almost all can be converted to fit most bars.
-You get what you pay for... I would think it far better to pay $500 or so dollars more and have a kite with a bigger wind range and greater performance, or even buy one secondhand at the same price, than have something like this.

This kite would be ok for light winds and general cruising, but I don't think it's the solution to a light one kite quiver.

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sir ROWDY said...
Ok this is my attempt at a grown up post to help convince you to buy a real kite:

-Although a strutless kite weighs 3.5kgs, a normal one weighs only 4-5kgs... so why is it you need to save such a nonsensical amount of weight? most airlines let you carry 23kgs.
-Any good kite these days comes without pulleys and almost all can be converted to fit most bars.
-You get what you pay for... I would think it far better to pay $500 or so dollars more and have a kite with a bigger wind range and greater performance, or even buy one secondhand at the same price, than have something like this.

This kite would be ok for light winds and general cruising, but I don't think it's the solution to a light one kite quiver.

Alright sir, glad you posted in a civilized manner,

first, one kite quivers do not exist, second I'm looking at low end performance up to 18 knots max. sliders are fine, much better than pulleys. 3.5 kgs is good if you transport all your gear in one bag and travel the world like I do.

Now I know (read your outbursts) that you do not favor a no-strut kite as you have tried similar attempts and was absolutely unimpressed... yet would you give it a try if it was available for demo? because in all your posts it seems that it's personal, you sound almost like the spanish inquisition...

I would love to try and see for myself, and I'm convinced that it is possible to make a kite without struts... but don't know if this particular product is worth it. I do understand your view but I disagree that these are fundamentally bad.

I just would like to hear from someone who has one or demoed it... because in my book 500$ less and lighter is A+++ in what I'm looking for for low end...

A 17m no strut kite that can perform properly to a max of 18 knots would be quite impressive. Those that I have witnessed and flown myself are flapping about fairly hard in sub 15's. I almost think that this wouldn't even be possible.

My "outbursts" (as you put it) aren't personal at all. I couldn't care less about who or what is promoting this style of kite, rather I'm trying to steer people away from making purchases that they would for the most part (imo) probably regret. (and to be honest you sound far more like an undercover pimp for this kite or brand than anything else.)

Also my "one kite quiver" line was obviously a stab at people thinking it's possible, not actually beliving myself that it exists...

Here's a good tip I've discovered from everyday life;
If you can't decide if something is "worth it" chances are pretty high it's not.

But if you're really that worried about it, demo it yourself. You will never know for sure any other way.

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sir ROWDY said...
A 17m no strut kite that can perform properly to a max of 18 knots would be quite impressive. Those that I have witnessed and flown myself are flapping about fairly hard in sub 15's. I almost think that this wouldn't even be possible.

My "outbursts" (as you put it) aren't personal at all. I couldn't care less about who or what is promoting this style of kite, rather I'm trying to steer people away from making purchases that they would for the most part (imo) probably regret. (and to be honest you sound far more like an undercover pimp for this kite or brand than anything else.)

Also my "one kite quiver" line was obviously a stab at people thinking it's possible, not actually beliving myself that it exists...

Here's a good tip I've discovered from everyday life;
If you can't decide if something is "worth it" chances are pretty high it's not.

But if you're really that worried about it, demo it yourself. You will never know for sure any other way.

Almost certain? reasonable doubt, that's why I want to try it... if that guy has made it work then it would defo be amazing... I'm no pimp but someone who's got enough of seeing too many light wind days of almost kiting go to waste... Hence looking for a solution. Chances are low hence why I want to try it, hear about it more, because I would kick myself not stepping into the unknown and see another almost day go by... We have not had good days in a while here in Perth for heavier guys lately...

Anyhow thanks for your input and your opinion is well noted and will help me make my decision eventually.

No worries man, you do what you gotta do! I hope you find something good.

If you're after other low wind kites to try the Ozone Zephyr is pretty amazing in light winds. Probably out of your budget new but worth a try! (Yes I am affiliated with Ozone).

Check out Andy Yates ripping on it in some very marginal conditions -

For a great light wind kite that turns amazingly quick, and is Australian made, have a demo of the Griffin Trxv7 17 meter kite. If you are ever in the south coast of NSW I would be happy for you to try any size in my quiver for the wind range. 9 knots cruising, 12 knots jumping, but at 8 to 10 knots you can be riding waves.
Cost for a kite like that without a bar is similar to a Cloud. I can handle this kite to about 20 knots, (83 kilos). The quality has stepped up considerably from previous years. Three struts.....
I do like the idea of the cloud, and next time I am in Maui I will give one a spin. I love how people spend their lives improving and developing ANY idea. Shows passion and commitment.
Good luck in your pursuit

I need to know if you da guys are related???

Da Frog

Dude, its easy to tell your hearts already flying in the "Clouds" :)
Just buy one and let us all know how you get on, it will be very interesting to read your review, other than what the designer has said...
And before it becomes a Naish kite

Griffin trx 17 mt 1150 no bar and comes with 3 free struts haven't tried one but the review says its the greatest kite in the world buy one let me no ill get 1 2

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Kitepower Australia said...
I need to know if you da guys are related???

nope, not related.

I'm in Hawaii for most of July, and when I am in Maui, I intend tracking down the guy that is making the Cloud and trying out either the 10 or 12m, because at that time of year, I don't think a 17m will get pumped up much. If I buy one, I will use my Blade Fat Lady bar and lines, because all my other bars are all 5 lines because they are all used on my North Rebels. Hopefully the Aussie dollar stays high!

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Radman said...
Griffin trx 17 mt 1150 no bar and comes with 3 free struts haven't tried one but the review says its the greatest kite in the world buy one let me no ill get 1 2

Had a look at the TRX 17M and at that price (and looping and turning that quick) it's becoming a contender... I used to own a 2007 Monkey Griffin 16M and it had a fair amount of power but the bladder went rogue after only a few seshs, it's somewhere in Greece now after I left it there... Anyhow anyone knows its weight by any chance and someone offering demos???

They have no wind range to consult nor price list and the online shop is not online...

As for the new Zephyr, I am very dubious as to the real low wind capability and the weight...

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coastflyer said...
I'm in Hawaii for most of July, and when I am in Maui, I intend tracking down the guy that is making the Cloud and trying out either the 10 or 12m, because at that time of year, I don't think a 17m will get pumped up much. If I buy one, I will use my Blade Fat Lady bar and lines, because all my other bars are all 5 lines because they are all used on my North Rebels. Hopefully the Aussie dollar stays high!

He should be easy to find on kite beach, lucky you spending time in hawaii. I would love to hear your feedback, sad you are not there right now... I think if you get a chance you should try both ends: a small one to see how it does under high winds and in light winds... If he has nailed it it should work at both ends of the wind window...

just ran into a mate who has a 13m cloud with a bar. His description was it's fits in a tiny bag and had only tried it once in 25kn so well and truly found it's top end. Apparently without any tension on the back lines it flaps really bad. Looks like I might have to get some picks and try it out in some light wind.

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TurtleHunter said...
just ran into a mate who has a 13m cloud with a bar. His description was it's fits in a tiny bag and had only tried it once in 25kn so well and truly found it's top end. Apparently without any tension on the back lines it flaps really bad. Looks like I might have to get some picks and try it out in some light wind.

Apparently the depower throw is short as like 20 cm and steering lines need to have tension otherwise it flaps but does not flap when powered... just when on the beach in full depower... Mate you got to try it and let us know or perhaps your friend can weigh in?

yeh not sure why he was given a bar with long throw. But for now it's 8m weather and hopefully swell so it will have to wait.

Dafrog said...

As for the new Zephyr, I am very dubious as to the real low wind capability and the weight..


Be interesting dafrog to wait and see on that one, if they have built some edge into it - and it is pretty obvious they have, surely the light wind ability would have dramatically increased. Proof will be in the reviews and those that ride them I suppose.

I suppose someone over here has to bit the bullet and get one over (the cloud) and see. Thing is, do you want that person to be you?

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eppo said...
Dafrog said...

As for the new Zephyr, I am very dubious as to the real low wind capability and the weight..


Be interesting dafrog to wait and see on that one, if they have built some edge into it - and it is pretty obvious they have, surely the light wind ability would have dramatically increased. Proof will be in the reviews and those that ride them I suppose.

I suppose someone over here has to bit the bullet and get one over (the cloud) and see. Thing is, do you want that person to be you?

youd have to be on cloud nine imho,

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eppo said...
Dafrog said...

As for the new Zephyr, I am very dubious as to the real low wind capability and the weight..


Be interesting dafrog to wait and see on that one, if they have built some edge into it - and it is pretty obvious they have, surely the light wind ability would have dramatically increased. Proof will be in the reviews and those that ride them I suppose.

I suppose someone over here has to bit the bullet and get one over (the cloud) and see. Thing is, do you want that person to be you?

I remain dubious and like you will love to hear about it and try eventually... 5 struts seems a bit much for efficiency and will add weight hence why I am dubious...

My probem with this kite is as follows,

1) Kite will be made with a peice of spectra sewin into the trailing edge to help hold its shape. What happens when the rope streches?
2) All sail cloth streches. How will it fly after 3months of hard use?

A kite with struts will hold its shape for longer because its got something to support the cloth.

I believe that it will be F*^% after one season of use. Once it has streched there is no going back. It will flog like a pair of undies in the wind.

Interesting that the price is $1150.00. It would only cost maybe $300.00 to get it made in China.

I worked as a sailmaker. Seen all that can and will happen.

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Hobie1463 said...
My probem with this kite is as follows,

1) Kite will be made with a peice of spectra sewin into the trailing edge to help hold its shape. What happens when the rope streches?
2) All sail cloth streches. How will it fly after 3months of hard use?

A kite with struts will hold its shape for longer because its got something to support the cloth.

I believe that it will be F*^% after one season of use. Once it has streched there is no going back. It will flog like a pair of undies in the wind.

Interesting that the price is $1150.00. It would only cost maybe $300.00 to get it made in China.

I worked as a sailmaker. Seen all that can and will happen.

very valid view on sail stretching and one of my concerns, when it come to reliability only time will tell... price is still lower than other big brands made in similar conditions, still 500$ less for a lower volume production kite...

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dafish said...
For a great light wind kite that turns amazingly quick, and is Australian made, have a demo of the Griffin Trxv7 17 meter kite. If you are ever in the south coast of NSW I would be happy for you to try any size in my quiver for the wind range. 9 knots cruising, 12 knots jumping, but at 8 to 10 knots you can be riding waves.
Cost for a kite like that without a bar is similar to a Cloud. I can handle this kite to about 20 knots, (83 kilos). The quality has stepped up considerably from previous years. Three struts.....
I do like the idea of the cloud, and next time I am in Maui I will give one a spin. I love how people spend their lives improving and developing ANY idea. Shows passion and commitment.
Good luck in your pursuit

I meant to ask you what's the weight of the 17M???

The only peeps out having fun in sub 15kns are skinny chicks and grommet kiters...

So I sent an email to Greg the designer,

There is no availability for the 17M until May as he is sold out.

So I have pushed the matter towards the Griffin Trix pro 2013 17M... I will start a thread on that at a later point, because what I get from our email conversation and the feedback available... seems like a great option.

Bummer for the strutless but I will have a look at how it develops in the future... I hear Naish is coming up with their own at the moment a 10M made for travelling...

Has anyone ridden a Airush Lithium 16m One strut?
Thought I might ask while on the topic of large, strange strut design kites...

disagree Hamburgler,
83 kilos, 12 to 15 knots of wind, 6 foot plus swell, and I had a blast. There are two photos on my 11 day thread last Saturday of those conditions. Do I prefer 22 knots and 7 meter kites on waves? Sure. But can have a blast in these conditions too. I would rather kite than work on my garden...

Infinity V3 out soon with the new bar too, just to add another possible demo to your growing list......

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dafish said...
disagree Hamburgler,
83 kilos, 12 to 15 knots of wind, 6 foot plus swell, and I had a blast. There are two photos on my 11 day thread last Saturday of those conditions. Do I prefer 22 knots and 7 meter kites on waves? Sure. But can have a blast in these conditions too. I would rather kite than work on my garden...

Its ok to disagree as I disagree with you

I've never seen your garden,
But unless you have Jim's mowing
On contract,
I'm guessing it needs a lot of attention



P.S. can you post some other pics,
I'm still not convinced

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hamburglar said...
The only peeps out having fun in sub 15kns are skinny chicks and grommet kiters...

Horsesh!t

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dafish said...
For a great light wind kite that turns amazingly quick, and is Australian made, have a demo of the Griffin Trxv7 17 meter kite.

You got me all excited there, but seems their website says oz designed made overseas. Still a start though. Are there any Aussie made and owned kites out there?