I reckon the new bar looks awesome and I appluade Naish for such a neat, functional and tidy design, BUT:

Why is there a swivel above the bar when the system doesn't appear to be free spinning? i.e. when you do multiple rolls or loops in one direction, the fifth line or the slingshot style flagging line in the 4 line kites will twist around the depower line.

The slingshot system is free spinning because the swivel is below the bar. When the front lines get twisted, you need to unclip your leash first, and then untwist the front lines.

The Naish system doesn't appear to be able to do this?



Naish nearly have the perfect design cracked in my opinion. All they need is a hollow swivel design that allows the flagging line to pass through the middle of the swivel. Making everything free spinning and tangle free.

Core have an awesome design that doesn't require the leash to be uncliped, but the problem with the swivel below the bar is that the chicken loop cant self position when unhooked. Slingshot also have this minor issue.







Best have a similar system to most other free spinning designs, but unless you have your leash attached to one of the front line attachments, pulling your quick release will do nothing more than pushing your bar fully forward.



The Cab bar is nice, but not perfect.



The features that the cab bar miss out on are:

- Having front lines an arm length away for self landing purposes.
- An adjustable bar so the effective bar length can be changed.
- A self positioning chicken loop. i.e. when you unhook, the naish QR (red thingy) slots into a slot in the bar and is locked in the correct position for rehooking.



Like I said, Naish have almost cracked it.
- Everything below the bar
- Nice neat adjustable effective bar length
- Front lines an arm length away
- Self positioning chicken loop
- Front line flagging system
- Push away QR
- Beautiful soft moulded grip bar

All they need to do is copy the Core hollow swivel design and impliment that where they have placed their current swivel. Wouldn't be hard

Oh yeh, and dont have that other front line fixed. Put an OH Sh!t handle on it to make self landing easier like Best have done.

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walshd said...

The Cab bar is nice, but not perfect.



The features that the cab bar miss out on are:

- Having front lines an arm length away for self landing purposes.
- An adjustable bar so the effective bar length can be changed.
- A self positioning chicken loop. i.e. when you unhook, the naish QR (red thingy) slots into a slot in the bar and is locked in the correct position for rehooking.

Couple of points about the Cab bar, there IDS system is for self landing, so its right there under the bar within easy reach.
Its not possible to do a pull one front line landing with the new system, and IDS works safer and better anyway.
True about the c-loop, but its so easy just to grab the c-loop and hook it back on with your hand anyway (and often you have one hand free too)

Adjustable bars - only ones I have seen that are reliable are the North/Core type, but they only adjust between 2 sizes and the increment is less than 5cm I think?

Perfection, I reckon I'll achieve it when I get hold of a round tuit.
Paul1's bar is very close though!!!

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

I think the problem with perfect bar design is you are designing for different riders. Unhooked riders don't care about what hooked riders want and visa versa. You'll also find that one nice thing on a bar creates other problems, for example, by making the chicken loop align on the naish, they removed the ability to untwist below the bar where other manufacturers have swivels.

There are also other issues at hand, for example, the moment you have a lot of throw, you need to have your straps quite far away which makes it difficult to adjust. Some riders prefer the cleat below the bar like the naish, but a fair amount of people prefer straps which explains which some like the cabrinha danglies and others like the having a cleat close enough to adjust.

The Naish, Cabrinha and Core are three of the cleaner designs on the market, but not perfect by any means, but it is comforting to see how much bar design has progressed in the last 3 or 4 years.

I also like Paul's bar, if any kite came with that I'd buy it

I cant see Pauls picture

For me anyway, the new Naish system is almost there. I really love the Slingshot system but would like to have the chickenloop self positioning and a leash attachment like the Core system that doesnt tangle.

If naish ran that "5th Line' through a hollow swivel at the top there, everything would be free spinning and tangle proof.

My 2 cents.

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walshd said...

I cant see Pauls picture

Well, that's tough titties for you

This is good, I have used it for 3 years and its all customizable.

"The Carbon bar is reduced diameter with a solid stainless steel center insert surrounding the hole. The ends are Soft floating bar ends which protect your fingers in extreme kitelooping situations. The release is a Solid stainless steel mould with a red dupon cap which releases in a upward movement. The 5th line is releasable for wrapped situations.
The bar also has a side reride ring which gives you a second chance at self landing or another self landing option.
The Yellow and black (International caution stripe colours) bar graphic is only on the wrong side of the bar. This is so the rider doesnt need to work out their left from right hand in emergencies.
Very simple single loop depower strap that is rarely used as standard depower range extremely effective for direct connected NEW kites.
Virtually no moving parts to jam with sand or seize.
Safety leash supplied is rated to 200kg.
Comes with 23m lines. Very direct feeling and grip is soft on the palm of your hands."

Yep, you have a very simple and effective bar design there NJ, but I'm a 4-line man.

Once you go 4-line, you never go back!

the perfect bar???? for who? not everyone is looking for the same things. For me these bars look terrible, however im sure some other people will love them. My suggestion is to just customise your bar for your preference, easy to do and makes a load of difference.
p.s. just dont chuck a bondi rescue.

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walshd said...

Yep, you have a very simple and effective bar design there NJ, but I'm a 4-line man.

Once you go 4-line, you never go back!

Works as a 4 line too. But rigged as a 4 line, the kite wont do as much as rigging with 5 lines.

Courses for Horses.

i agree with Rowdy..

i hate below the bar depower, its a hassle to use especially when ur lit and the excess rope dangles around and gets in the way, i prefer the above bar cleat like old slingy or a pull pull system. All the chicken loops on those bars are too small, bars are too long and has too many bits hanging around, personally IMO a good bar would be the naish bar, NJ's power line set up, a slingy CL and no donkey dick..

but for everyone else this might be a bad set up.. soo its hard to please everyone and most bars are just designed for the masses

Simplicity is good, I notice that many bars are beginning to look more and more like dildos, with knobbly rubber bits sticking everywhere, I don't like it when they start coming off in little funny bits.

I could sure go for a hand warmer in my bar for winter though!

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Charl dv said...

i agree with Rowdy..

i hate below the bar depower, its a hassle to use especially when ur lit and the excess rope dangles around and gets in the way, i prefer the above bar cleat like old slingy or a pull pull system. All the chicken loops on those bars are too small, bars are too long and has too many bits hanging around, personally IMO a good bar would be the naish bar, NJ's power line set up, a slingy CL and no donkey dick..

but for everyone else this might be a bad set up.. soo its hard to please everyone and most bars are just designed for the masses

It looks like kite companies should have different bars for different styles and preferences.
They have different kite models and boards,so it makes sense to have different bars to go with them.

I don't like the below the bar depower,its very hard to use if a sudden gust hits ! It seems most bars are going that way.

So,yeah,you should have a choice of bars when you buy a kite from the same manufacturer.

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user said...

Charl dv said...

i agree with Rowdy..

i hate below the bar depower, its a hassle to use especially when ur lit and the excess rope dangles around and gets in the way, i prefer the above bar cleat like old slingy or a pull pull system. All the chicken loops on those bars are too small, bars are too long and has too many bits hanging around, personally IMO a good bar would be the naish bar, NJ's power line set up, a slingy CL and no donkey dick..

but for everyone else this might be a bad set up.. soo its hard to please everyone and most bars are just designed for the masses

It looks like kite companies should have different bars for different styles and preferences.
They have different kite models and boards,so it makes sense to have different bars to go with them.

I don't like the below the bar depower,its very hard to use if a sudden gust hits ! It seems most bars are going that way.

So,yeah,you should have a choice of bars when you buy a kite from the same manufacturer.

Why not just buy kite only and mix and match manufacturers if say you like a Best kite, but like a Naish bar? Seems to me like you don't get much of a discount for buying both together these days.

If you are reaching for the depower in a sudden gust I think you are missing the point of the depower, its meant to be set and only adjusted for the base wind speed, that what the long throw on bars is for these days. I like the idea of the leash connecting like a suicide on the naish bar, but actually set to crank on the depower if you let go of the bar or blow the CL.

ive never found gusts to be that bad that i need to adjust trim all of the sudden or that i had to push the bar out mre than a couple of CM at most, i quite like short bar throws or if its long throw i pull the stopper right in which in turn makes long throw pointless, a simple bar with a medium throw length to make it controlable in gusty conditions, a good 5th line safety set up and something with a decent grip.. some bars are shocking, the slingy one is uncomfortable, the flexi one is uncomfortable, airush one is wayy to skinny, naish one was good, the LF one is great the 06 best one was alright, no need for these finger grooves and logos and coloured padding with lots of little panels that peel off after 2 months use... just one wrap of uniform foam where there will only be one join area.